Clarification of MA laws for ammo storage in vehicle / home

[politenessman]

1) In MA, it doesn't have to be unloaded.
2) Now you are starting to understand MA gun laws

Does anyone actually abide by these laws? And yes, this is a serious question - for instace, right now I can shoot on my own property, but state law says I must be 50 yards from any public roads, however, as most people here don't own vast tracts of land, the local police don't enforce this as long as everyone is playing safe.

Is this the same type of situation?

 

[jasons]

Does anyone actually abide by these laws?

If I wasn't, I wouldn't admit to it on the internet.


Note to AG robots: I follow all laws to the letter, never speed, and always use cross-walks.

 

[M1911]

Does anyone actually abide by these laws?

yes.

And yes, this is a serious question - for instace, right now I can shoot on my own property, but state law says I must be 50 yards from any public roads, however, as most people here don't own vast tracts of land, the local police don't enforce this as long as everyone is playing safe.

Is this the same type of situation?

No. People have gone to jail as a result of violating this law. If they are found guilty of it, even if they don't go to jail, the penalty is such that they are now a federally prohibited person and can never own or possess a gun or ammunition ever again.

We don't encourage self help.

How are you, Marsha?

 

[GSG]

No. People have gone to jail as a result of violating this law. If they are found guilty of it, even if they don't go to jail, the penalty is such that they are now a federally prohibited person and can never own or possess a gun or ammunition ever again.

Only for improper storage of "large cap" guns, those are felonies. Any conviction for any gun crime will be a lifetime Mass. LTC DQ and loss of FID for 5 years, but non-large cap is a misdemeanor, and not a federal DQ.

 

[FreeWillie]

Good point. I hope no one sneaks into the room where my safe is and plants hidden cameras to catch me theoretically violating safe storage laws the next time they break in...

I actually have security cams in the house. Many people do. I think they call them nanny cams. My point still stands. Don't let your nanny cam be used against you. Things are tough enough in this hell hole of a state. Don't give them extra ammunition. You know they'll use it to screw you. And you know you won't be thinking about those cams when sh!t happens.

 

[KMaurer]

Back to the vehicle question, one needs to understand that attorneys don't give legal interpretations; they give legal advice. It's the courts that do the interpreting. Unless one specifically tells an attorney that they're looking for advice as to how far they can go before the attorney won't be able to get them an acquittal (or get the conviction overturned on appeal), then the attorney is likely to advise them as to how far they can go without getting into any sort of trouble in the first place. After all, that's what most people are interested in knowing.

The confusion as to which statute (storage or transportation) controls guns in vehicles isn't due so much to the laws themselves, but to the fact that most police will interpret a gun in a car as being transported rather than stored. Thus the advice from attorneys to adhere to the stricter transportation statute. I'd be surprised if there were any actual precedent (or even clear case law) holding one way or the other for a parked vehicle. Just remember, as soon as you put the keys in the ignition, you're transporting.

Ken

 

[powerman]

Ok if i have a NON large capacity rifle or shotgun there are no restrictions in 131C, so i can keep it loaded in the pasenger compartment and not in any case.

the mass wildlife site states that all riffles and shot guns be un loaded but does not reference any law, also basic definition of large capacity has a lot to be desired. http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/education/hed/hed_gun_laws.htm

Not sure if this is the latest large cap roster http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/largecap_10_2007.pdf

 

[M1911]

Ok if i have a NON large capacity rifle or shotgun there are no restrictions in 131C, so i can keep it loaded in the pasenger compartment and not in any case.

1) It has to be unloaded. See MGL Chapter 131 Section 63:

Section 63. A person, other than the director of law enforcement, his deputy directors of enforcement, chiefs of enforcement, deputy chiefs of enforcement, environmental police officers, deputy environmental police officers, warden and members of the state or local police in areas over which they have jurisdiction, special officers or persons charged with the protection of persons or property while acting in the discharge of their respective duties, as such, and paraplegics as provided in section sixty-five, shall not, except upon land owned or occupied by him, have in his possession or under his control in or on any motor vehicle or aircraft a loaded shotgun or rifle, ...

See: http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIX/Chapter131/Section63

2) I would not expect a police officer to know the details of MGL C140 S131c, nor would I count on him to be able to know the difference between a large capacity long gun and a non-large capacity long gun. While I doubt any charges would get filed, getting arrested would likely ruin your whole day. And then there's the whole suitability thing. So, while it is legal to have an unloaded, non-large capacity long gun in the passenger compartment, I recommend against it.

 

[powerman]

Thanks m1911, but section 63 it also states " special officers or persons charged with the protection of persons or property while acting in the discharge of their respective duties"
Can I then state that I am charged with protecting My person and it's my respective duty? I'm sure this section was added for VIP protection detail.
It's intresting to note that they limit police in the preceeding pargraph "the state or local police in areas over which they have jurisdiction" do local police have jurisdiction in another town?

 

[M1911]

Thanks m1911, but section 63 it also states " special officers or persons charged with the protection of persons or property while acting in the discharge of their respective duties"
Can I then state that I am charged with protecting My person and it's my respective duty?

You can always try. But I seriously doubt that would hold up.

I'm sure this section was added for VIP protection detail.

I'd guess security guards and armored car guards.

It's intresting to note that they limit police in the preceeding pargraph "the state or local police in areas over which they have jurisdiction" do local police have jurisdiction in another town?

Sometimes they do.

 

[BigBobby]

Hatchbacks?

Hello,

Thanks for help I've already found in these forums. I'm a father who doesn't have much experience with guns, but last December I started the process to legally own and shoot a gun for my son's 16th birthday present. He's always liked guns so I figured it'd be a good present for him.

We've now gotten our licenses, a rifle, and a membership to a gun club where we can shoot it. We'd been bringing it to the club in the back of our car unloaded and with the trigger lock on it. We have a hatchback, however. Is that treated differently from a locked trunk?

Thanks,
Bobby

 

[drgrant]

Hello,

Thanks for help I've already found in these forums. I'm a father who doesn't have much experience with guns, but last December I started the process to legally own and shoot a gun for my son's 16th birthday present. He's always liked guns so I figured it'd be a good present for him.

We've now gotten our licenses, a rifle, and a membership to a gun club where we can shoot it. We'd been bringing it to the club in the back of our car unloaded and with the trigger lock on it. We have a hatchback, however. Is that treated differently from a locked trunk?

Thanks,
Bobby

Trigger locks are meaningless for transportation, so don't even bother. Get a hard or soft case that you can put locks on so you can make something that will pass as a "secure container".

Note that if the rifle is low capacity (eg, stuff like lever actions, bolt action 22s, pump shotguns, etc) that no "locked trunk or secure container" is required for transport, but I wouldn't expect a typical LEO to know that part of the law. I'd rather have a locked case around (anything) in a hatchback, particularly if there is a way to get into the storage space behind the seats without opening the hatch itself.

-Mike

 

[M1911]

We'd been bringing it to the club in the back of our car unloaded and with the trigger lock on it. We have a hatchback, however. Is that treated differently from a locked trunk?

The cargo area of a hatchback, station wagon, or SUV is not a locked trunk. If it is large-capacity, it must be "contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container." Since you don't have a trunk, you can't have a locked trunk. So put it in a case and lock the case.

As drgrant points out, while that is not legally necessary for a non-large capacity gun, many (most?) police officers might not know that subtlety in the law and end up ruining your entire day (or worse).

 

[TLB]

The cargo area of a hatchback, station wagon, or SUV is not a locked trunk. If it is large-capacity, it must be "contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container." Since you don't have a trunk, you can't have a locked trunk. So put it in a case and lock the case.

As drgrant points out, while that is not legally necessary for a non-large capacity gun, many (most?) police officers might not know that subtlety in the law and end up ruining your entire day (or worse).

It is truly amazing we still have gang violence in this state with the laws we have. You'd think it would be next to impossible for the gang members to understand and navigate all of the nuances of the gun laws, and they would be quickly tripped up and locked away.

 

[wildwest]

I read this whole thread..but still didnt quite get the answer on if its legal to have loaded mags or not in your vehicle, not under your direct control. I don't recall reading a law that said it was illegal to have feeding devices loaded during transport.. If its not in the gun, the gun isnt loaded. I'd assume it was safe. correct?

 

[M1911]

I read this whole thread..but still didnt quite get the answer on if its legal to have loaded mags or not in your vehicle, not under your direct control. I don't recall reading a law that said it was illegal to have feeding devices loaded during transport.. If its not in the gun, the gun isnt loaded. I'd assume it was safe. correct?

In MA, loaded mags are fine.

 

[wildwest]

In MA, loaded mags are fine.

Thank you.. I thought so.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[PATRON]

I teach my student to always do more than what is required. Lock everything in a case
even if it is a BB gun.That way there is no room for them to find something wrong.

 

[mac1911]

PATRON nailed it. give them little to work off of. It is their job and mission to find something to charge you with.

 

[KMaurer]

Forget about a locked trunk for storing or transporting anything that requires any security, due either to the law or its value. Trunks are child's play for even the most unqualified thief to access, and the minute you get a flat tire you need to change you've given up any legal protection as soon as you go for the spare and the jack.

Ken

 

[BigBobby]

Thanks for the information.

We have a bolt action rifle so it sounds like we're technically within the law, but it sounds like it'd be worthwhile to pick up a locking case.

Thanks again,
Bobby

 

[FreeWillie]

A question. I have a gun safe in my Jeep (no trunk). What are my liabilities if the officer asks me to open the safe. I am assuming I can say "Show me a warrant and I'll open it". If I keep a loaded handgun do I risk violation of the law if it is at my side and in direct control and I have a LTC-A with no restrictions? The safe is located in a spot that I can have it open and have ready access to a loaded handgun but if pulled over can roll the tumblers and lock the safe. I think I'm covered but just want to get opinions from those much more knowledgeable than I.

 

[Stef]

"I do not consent to a search of my vehicle or my person."

If he has cause, he won't be asking you. You'll be in cuffs in the back of his cruiser and he'll use your keys to open it himself.

 

[FreeWillie]

"I do not consent to a search of my vehicle or my person."

If he has cause, he won't be asking you. You'll be in cuffs in the back of his cruiser and he'll use your keys to open it himself.

I perfectly understand that. But that didn't answer my question. And I have given no cause in over 40 years

 

[TBalls]

A question. I have a gun safe in my Jeep (no trunk). What are my liabilities if the officer asks me to open the safe. I am assuming I can say "Show me a warrant and I'll open it". If I keep a loaded handgun do I risk violation of the law if it is at my side and in direct control and I have a LTC-A with no restrictions? The safe is located in a spot that I can have it open and have ready access to a loaded handgun but if pulled over can roll the tumblers and lock the safe. I think I'm covered but just want to get opinions from those much more knowledgeable than I.

Are you saying the gun is at your side and in your direct control, or the safe is? The safest definition of direct control is that the gun is "on your person" -- anything but that and you should have it unloaded and locked up. There's no specific requirement for ammo storage in a vehicle, but if you have other people (unlicensed) with you it should probably be on you, locked up or at least in the "back" of the Jeep to avoid any potential dispute over who's "in possession".

This state is a mess.

 

[FreeWillie]

"I do not consent to a search of my vehicle or my person."

If he has cause, he won't be asking you. You'll be in cuffs in the back of his cruiser and he'll use your keys to open it himself.

After i open the safe I roll the tumblers so that if the lid closes the safe locks. There is no key. It's a mechanical tumbler lock.

 

[FreeWillie]

Are you saying the gun is at your side and in your direct control, or the safe is? The safest definition of direct control is that the gun is "on your person" -- anything but that and you should have it unloaded and locked up. There's no specific requirement for ammo storage in a vehicle, but if you have other people (unlicensed) with you it should probably be on you, locked up or at least in the "back" of the Jeep to avoid any potential dispute over who's "in possession".

This state is a mess.

Both, the safe is directly at my side and I have direct control over the handgun when the safe lid is open. It literally is a close to me as if it was in a holster on my body. I literally can rest my arm on the armrest and place my hand on the grip of the handgun if I want to.

I rarely have passengers in the car and the one that does ride with me (my wife) has an LTC-A with no restrictions.

 

[zbrod]

Wait, I know this was mentioned before but can I get a confirmation/clarification:

Does ammo in your home have to be locked up?

 

[namedpipes]

We all know and love the storage limits for ammunition and components in our homes.

If storage of ammo in vehicles is controlled by another section, then the storage limits don't apply to vehicles.

Seems we can store any amount, locked in a vehicle, out of sight . . . right?

 

[Tdsjfb]

This is an excellent thread - very helpful for an inexperienced person like myself trying to sort out all the (insane) intricacies of a convoluted MA statute.