can i take a non licensed person shooting

M1911

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i have a class a ltc can i take a friend shooting who does not have a fid or ltc? can he legally shoot my firearms under my supervision?
Yes. That is specifically allowed for under MA law. See MGL Chapter 140 Section 129C, which reads, in part:

No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.

[snip]

The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following exempted persons and uses:

[snip]

(m) The temporary holding, handling or firing of a firearm for examination, trial or instruction in the presence of a holder of a license to carry firearms, or the temporary holding, handling or firing of a rifle or shotgun for examination, trial or instruction in the presence of a holder of a firearm identification card, or where such holding, handling or firing is for a lawful purpose;
Full text is here: http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129C
 
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Not to hijack, but what happens if the unlicensed person is federally prohibited

Im referring to a friend who was convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence
 
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Not to hijack, but what happens if the unlicensed person is federally prohibited
Federally prohibited is not an area I would want to screw with whatsoever While there has been a few people who have said here, "eh, who would know?", I myself will. Ever let a federally prohibited person touch a firearm, even if I disagree with the notion of being federally prohibited
 

SSW1911

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Take your friend to the range, be safe and have a great time. Qualifying someone to purchase, own, carry a weapon is beyond any responsability you have as an individual, IMHO.

I am probably wrong, that said I think someone being somehow "prohibited" relates to purchasing, owning and carrying a firearm. Not shooting a firearm under the supervision of an LTC holder. Again I am not a lawyer, but I also am not granting a license to anyone, just letting them safely shoot a firearm, in a supervised situation at a range.
 

M1911

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Not to hijack, but what happens if the unlicensed person is federally prohibited
It's a federal felony for the prohibited person. I suspect there is also a legal penalty for the person taking the prohibited person to the range.

I am probably wrong, that said I think someone being somehow "prohibited" relates to purchasing, owning and carrying a firearm. Not shooting a firearm under the supervision of an LTC holder.
You are absolutely wrong. A federally prohibited person can not possess a firearm or ammunition, no matter who is supervising them. That is federal law.
 

SSW1911

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snip

You are absolutely wrong. A federally prohibited person can not possess a firearm or ammunition, no matter who is supervising them. That is federal law.


Thanks for setting that straight. Like I said, that was my impression and thought it could be wrong.

So does "possess" mean he can't even shoot a gun at a range?? Not being a dick, really just a question. Just my layman's interpretation would be that possess means to "own." Honest question, I can't confirm or deny that I "may" have taken or been shooting with someone who may be in the federally prohibited catagory.
 

M1911

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So does "possess" mean he can't even shoot a gun at a range??
He can't even hold it in his hand. A single round of ammunition in his pocket can mean a 10-year sentence in the federal pen.

Just my layman's interpretation would be that possess means to "own."
No.

Honest question, I can't confirm or deny that I "may" have taken or been shooting with someone who may be in the federally prohibited catagory.
Seriously, dude. Don't even go there. You don't want to say that sort of thing on a public forum. You have no anonymity and the feds have zero sense of humor about this sort of thing.
 
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45collector

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I'm sure there's plenty of folks who are federally prohibited who shouldn't be. I feel bad for them, but I won't take them shooting.
On the other hand, I know people who are not prohibited in any way from touching/ handling/ shooting firearms who I also will not take shooting.
 

Rob Boudrie

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I am probably wrong
No probably about it.

IANAL, but I believe that in this case, "posess" means to touch.
At the state level (not sure about the feds), "possess" can even be extended to cover the doctrine of constructive possession which requires only the ability to exercise control, not any actual possession or touching.
 

GSG

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Federally prohibited is not an area I would want to screw with whatsoever While there has been a few people who have said here, "eh, who would know?", I myself will. Ever let a federally prohibited person touch a firearm, even if I disagree with the notion of being federally prohibited
Exactly. I wouldn't go out running backgrounds on every range guest, but if there's even the slightest question, they can flirt with prison using someone else's guns.

Most if not all Firearms instructors require a release form to be signed that includes the question. "Have you been convicted of a felony?"
Interestingly pre GCA-68, when it was still legal for felons to buy guns, some gun stores still had their customers sign a similar type of form.

The prohibited person I was talking about isn't a felon. He was convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence
For the purposes of federal firearms law, he is in the exact same category as a convicted felon.
 

Da_lucche

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Exactly. I wouldn't go out running backgrounds on every range guest, but if there's even the slightest question, they can flirt with prison using someone else's guns.



Interestingly pre GCA-68, when it was still legal for felons to buy guns, some gun stores still had their customers sign a similar type of form.



For the purposes of federal firearms law, he is in the exact same category as a convicted felon.
Wait...how is someone charged with a misdemeanor considered a felon when a felon is someone who commits a felonious crime?

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M1911

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Wait...how is someone charged with a misdemeanor considered a felon when a felon is someone who commits a felonious crime?
The federal felon-in-possession law had to define what a felony is. The statute's definition of a felony includes misdemeanors punishable by more than two years in prison. Here in MA, a first offense DUI is a misdemeanor punishable by up to 2 1/2 years in prison. Therefore, conviction in MA on a first time DUI makes the defendant a federally prohibited person for life.

Different states have different standards on what is a misdemeanor versus a felony, so the federal law had to come up with some yardstick that can be applied across all states.
 

Da_lucche

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The federal felon-in-possession law had to define what a felony is. The statute's definition of a felony includes misdemeanors punishable by more than two years in prison. Here in MA, a first offense DUI is a misdemeanor punishable by up to 2 1/2 years in prison. Therefore, conviction in MA on a first time DUI makes the defendant a federally prohibited person for life.

Different states have different standards on what is a misdemeanor versus a felony, so the federal law had to come up with some yardstick that can be applied across all states.
Ahh ok. That makes more sense now. I was confused when I read that because I know a cpl ppl with misdemeanors from back in their irresponsible early college years who have their ltc no restrictions but they never did any jail time.

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M1911

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Ahh ok. That makes more sense now. I was confused when I read that because I know a cpl ppl with misdemeanors from back in their irresponsible early college years who have their ltc no restrictions but they never did any jail time.
The amount of jail time that they served doesn't matter. They could have not served a single day but still be a prohibited person. What matters is the maximum possible jail term for their offense. If the maximum possible jail term for that offense is greater than 2 years, then they are a federally prohibited person.
 
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So if a licensed person was caught taking a PP shooting would they also be committing a crime? Would I be correct in assuming they could lose their license on "suitability" at the very least?
 
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So if a licensed person was caught taking a PP shooting would they also be committing a crime?
Yes, if "knowingly, or with reasonable cause to believe" the individual is prohibited (18 USC 922(d)(1)).

Would I be correct in assuming they could lose their license on "suitability" at the very least?
I think that's a reasonable assumption.
 

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Wait...how is someone charged with a misdemeanor considered a felon when a felon is someone who commits a felonious crime?
The list of federally prohibited persons puts felons in the exact same category as people with misdemeanor DV convictions.
 

PappyM3

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The federal felon-in-possession law had to define what a felony is. The statute's definition of a felony includes misdemeanors punishable by more than two years in prison. Here in MA, a first offense DUI is a misdemeanor punishable by up to 2 1/2 years in prison. Therefore, conviction in MA on a first time DUI makes the defendant a federally prohibited person for life.

Different states have different standards on what is a misdemeanor versus a felony, so the federal law had to come up with some yardstick that can be applied across all states.
Regardless of maximum jail time, someone convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence is still a federally prohibited person due to the Lautenberg Amendment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_Violence_Offender_Gun_Ban
 
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