Then what's the "upheaval" that will return us to a Constitutional Republic?
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Brown to Vote Against Reciprocity Bill
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Then what's the "upheaval" that will return us to a Constitutional Republic?
GM-GUY
NES Member
An economic collapse that causes a major reset of the financial system, the USD, and by default the US Govt.
A significant awakening of the electorate due to circumstances that cannot be ignored.
and yes
A power grab by the Federal Govt (any branch) that causes a massive revolt among the populace.
There are as many others as stars in the sky but those are some obvious ones that keep me up at night.
A significant awakening of the electorate due to circumstances that cannot be ignored.
and yes
A power grab by the Federal Govt (any branch) that causes a massive revolt among the populace.
There are as many others as stars in the sky but those are some obvious ones that keep me up at night.
So you didn't mean there were 2 possible outcomes, you meant there were a million possible outcomes, none of which are good.
I hold a different view.
GM-GUY
NES Member
Two outcomes in regards to 'upheaval' or complete change of government from Representative Republic in line with Constitutional limits to Socialism in some flavor.
The three options I wrote above are simply on the upheaval side.
I held your view for years, a single vote can change the world view - then I became disillusioned. It gives me hope that folks still hold those believes - maybe I'm wrong, if so we all live till we are old and grey, in comfort and plenty.
The three options I wrote above are simply on the upheaval side.
I held your view for years, a single vote can change the world view - then I became disillusioned. It gives me hope that folks still hold those believes - maybe I'm wrong, if so we all live till we are old and grey, in comfort and plenty.
Per the GOAL Newsletter, I gave Scott another reminder call.
The intern who answered said he does not support national CCW because it will bring licensing down to a lower denominator.
I do not see how that is possible. Anybody who can buy a gun in another state can buy a gun in Mass, too. They just may not legally be able to CCW. Since when do criminals care about that detail if they were to commit a crime here.
I am pretty pissed that the intern said flat out that Scott does not support National CCW. I gave my name and email address in case he wants to get back to me.
I must say that I am pretty disgusted with that man.
The intern who answered said he does not support national CCW because it will bring licensing down to a lower denominator.
I do not see how that is possible. Anybody who can buy a gun in another state can buy a gun in Mass, too. They just may not legally be able to CCW. Since when do criminals care about that detail if they were to commit a crime here.
I am pretty pissed that the intern said flat out that Scott does not support National CCW. I gave my name and email address in case he wants to get back to me.
I must say that I am pretty disgusted with that man.
Again, you realize Brown is a Senator, right?
like i said before, they all have one word in common, politician!!!
And I wonder why it's so hard to get anything off the ground.
Danor
NES Member
I'm new to this but I'm learning.Please correct me if I'm wrong but if the reciprocity bill passes the states that don't allow CCW won't participate/still won't allow people from other states in with a gun. Whats to stop states like MA from taking away CCW to avoid participating?
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Nothing, except that they would also have to take CCW away from persons of considerable privilege, power and influence.
While the bill would require persons carrying based on reciprocity to follow all restrictions in the state in which they carried (restaurant bans, etc.), there is no provision under which, for example, a PA (shall issue) resident would have to follow the restriction of "be important or very well connected" in order to have his license honored in NYC. Sure, NYC could, and may, totally ban carry - but then it would not be possible for people like Donald Trump who have what is known in NY parlance as "full carry" permits to continue to carry.
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NYC has had a "persons of privilege" policy for many decades and the "special need" (which includes "rich" and "celebrity status" in addition to carrying valuables) has never been successfully challenged in court.
The proposed law does allow a state to screw its own citizens. NJ citizens would not be allowed to carry in NJ with a permit from another state, however NJ would be required to recognize permits from shall issue states - as long as the person doing the carrying is not a NJ resident. Sort of a "screw your own" policy, like the AZ restaurant ban.
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I was referring more to a state that has CCW suddenly banning it in light of this bill. I have a hard time seeing how that would be considered a "reasonable restriction." Frankly I think NYC's "only special / rich people get permits" policy is also ripe for litigation, but I'm no lawyer.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Danor
NES Member
I'm 7 weeks into a supposed 8 week wait for my license.I have been reading,learning a lot for the last couple of months.It's amazing how much crap you guys have to deal with.Two months ago I was totally oblivious.
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I was referring more to a state that has CCW suddenly banning it in light of this bill. I have a hard time seeing how that would be considered a "reasonable restriction." Frankly I think NYC's "only special / rich people get permits" policy is also ripe for litigation, but I'm no lawyer.
The "special need" requirement (It's never stated as "special/rich people", but "have a need" ... and conveniently, only special people have a need .... sort of how in the 50's only white people could pass a literacy test to vote) has been litigated in Westchester County, and the plaintiff lost - with the judge spending 60 pages or so justifying the status quo of only persons with a particular "demonstrated need" getting an unrestricted NY license. The case is under appeal. It's a classic treatment of what the constitution, and equal treatment under the law demands butting heads against what the court feels if proper public policy.
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If this does pass can are we all going to get VT driver licenses? I've lived/worked between MA and VT lots of times and have had DLs from both. So who is to say if someone is a resident at any given second. None of this crap will ever give people carrying a universal free pass.
Lets see, one could vote for a self proclaimed (D) MOONBAT, or the (R) alternative. Or, just throw it away on foolishness. hmmmmmm.......this is puzzling. Their all crooks, its been suggested before. If voting would RADICALLY change anything , the legislators would outlaw it. Why is there an electoral "college" to begin with? Because back when national elections were set up that way, plebeians like us, were to uneducated to have a 1 person, 1 vote electoral system. Thats changed, a bit. However indoctrination never will. E-mails are simply spam,(or I should say, statically compiled). AFAIK. Use pen, paper, envelope and legible cohesive thoughts on paper in a stamped envelope. Maybe as a greeting, U think senators , and congressmen get many holiday greetings? You will not be wasting your time, the way you do with interns viewing emails inbetween facebooking.
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yanici
NES Member
This otta be good. Did you notice if the sound was coming out both sides of his mouth as he spoke?
I was referring more to a state that has CCW suddenly banning it in light of this bill. I have a hard time seeing how that would be considered a "reasonable restriction." Frankly I think NYC's "only special / rich people get permits" policy is also ripe for litigation, but I'm no lawyer.
At the same time, people in MA with a restricted LTC-A could get a carry permit from FL or UT and be able to carry in MA. That would throw the politicians here into a huge tizzy.
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I believe the proposed law has a specific exclusion for this, and persons may not use an out of state carry permit to carry in their home state.
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Yes
HR 822 said:
However, as it reads someone in Michigan (for example) could get a non-resident permit in another state and use it to legally carry in 49 states. (Subject to state and local restrictions.) Not a bad start.
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The chances of this passing are very, very slim - but if it does, it will be interesting to see what manner of harassment jurisdictions like NYC, Hawaii, NJ, etc. come up with.
Back when I lived in upstate NY, there was an occasional move in the state legislature to remove the "not valid in NYC unless approved by the police commissioner of that city" clause on upstate NY permits. The city managed to have it squashed each time it was introduced.
In another case, there was a move to legislate that all NY permits were unrestricted. The mayor of NY (Koch at the time) responded by announcing that all restricted NYC permits would be immediately revoked if such a law passed. It didn't.
When LEOSA was new, the NYPD adopted a policy of disarming and detaining any out of state officer found armed until his LE status could be independently verified (NYPD officers were instructed not to rely just on credentials carried by persons claiming LEOSA status).
Philadelphia adopted a policy of arresting persons carrying on non-resident permits, until they made the mistake of arresting a handful of minorities who had the sense to retain quality legal counsel and fight back. For some period of time, the PA State Police were reputed to not understand the validity of an out of state permit in PA (I believe this has been corrected).
So, just imagine what's in store for random citizens with carry permits if this passed
. We'll need a new thread on NES to track the abuses and mis-application of the limitations to the law.
Back when I lived in upstate NY, there was an occasional move in the state legislature to remove the "not valid in NYC unless approved by the police commissioner of that city" clause on upstate NY permits. The city managed to have it squashed each time it was introduced.
In another case, there was a move to legislate that all NY permits were unrestricted. The mayor of NY (Koch at the time) responded by announcing that all restricted NYC permits would be immediately revoked if such a law passed. It didn't.
When LEOSA was new, the NYPD adopted a policy of disarming and detaining any out of state officer found armed until his LE status could be independently verified (NYPD officers were instructed not to rely just on credentials carried by persons claiming LEOSA status).
Philadelphia adopted a policy of arresting persons carrying on non-resident permits, until they made the mistake of arresting a handful of minorities who had the sense to retain quality legal counsel and fight back. For some period of time, the PA State Police were reputed to not understand the validity of an out of state permit in PA (I believe this has been corrected).
So, just imagine what's in store for random citizens with carry permits if this passed
. We'll need a new thread on NES to track the abuses and mis-application of the limitations to the law.
The chances of this passing are very, very slim - but if it does, it will be interesting to see what manner of harassment jurisdictions like NYC, Hawaii, NJ, etc. come up with.
So, just imagine what's in store for random citizens with carry permits if this passed
Yeah, there's no way i'd want to be the first one to carry in NYC on an out of state LTC.
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SteelShooter
NES Member
CC'ers will have to wear the CC Sash at all times.
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