Boston LTC process - denied my 2a because I'm a second class citizen

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hello gents, I've been using a lot of the information from these boards to plan out my LTC application in Boston. A huge thank you to all you gents making the process less confusing. I've read consistently that I need to get the heck out because I'm in the wrong city but I didn't think it would be so bad but I've run into a complete nightmare. To be quite honest, I'm crushed by their response.

Backstory to this is I went to BPD headquarters to pick up their application and set up an appointment for an interview with a licensing officer. Everything was fine, I had all the requirements, had taken my safety course, was all set waiting for the interview. One of the receptionists gave me a check list of documents I would need. When I reviewed it later after leaving, I read that I had to prove citizenship or permanent resident status.

I am a US citizen by deriving my citizenship through a naturalized citizen. If specific conditions are met a child automatically becomes a US citizen when their parent is naturalized. I have my passport and my green card is now expired. The checklist clearly states NO PASSPORTS, only birth certificates or naturalization papers are accepted for proof of citizenship. After reaching out to BPD asking for clarification, they told me that they will only take the two aforementioned documents. Asking them if they recognize that this is an outstanding circumstance that their department protocols isn't designed to handle and if they could make exceptions I was given a flat out no. A sergeant later called me back and told me to look into a certificate of citizenship. I did, it costs 600 dollars and is entirely useless to me because I'm spending that 600 dollars for nothing else but getting an LTC. I called back and asked if they would accept the certificate of citizenship to make sure that the 600 dollar investment would at least allow me to practice my 2a. Even with this financial barrier put up in front of me I was determined. I was given a flat out no. Essentially, they do not recognize my citizenship. They are "aware" that there are more than two ways of becoming a citizen but no they will not recognize them.

I have been a citizen for 7 years now. Clean record, not even a speeding ticket. My family has lived in the United States for nearly 20 years. When I got my passport back in 2007 it was the proudest moment of my life because I finally felt that my rights were cemented and I would fiercely defend them, for myself and my fellow citizens. Calling bpd was the first time I ever felt like a second class citizen.

I am now giving up on my ltc application in Boston after spending all that money on range time to practice for moon island and for my safety course. I hope that my fellow citizens searching for information like I did can take something from my experience. And once again thanks
 
hello gents, I've been using a lot of the information from these boards to plan out my LTC application in Boston. A huge thank you to all you gents making the process less confusing. I've read consistently that I need to get the heck out because I'm in the wrong city but I didn't think it would be so bad but I've run into a complete nightmare. To be quite honest, I'm crushed by their response.

Backstory to this is I went to BPD headquarters to pick up their application and set up an appointment for an interview with a licensing officer. Everything was fine, I had all the requirements, had taken my safety course, was all set waiting for the interview. One of the receptionists gave me a check list of documents I would need. When I reviewed it later after leaving, I read that I had to prove citizenship or permanent resident status.

I am a US citizen by deriving my citizenship through a naturalized citizen. If specific conditions are met a child automatically becomes a US citizen when their parent is naturalized. I have my passport and my green card is now expired. The checklist clearly states NO PASSPORTS, only birth certificates or naturalization papers are accepted for proof of citizenship. After reaching out to BPD asking for clarification, they told me that they will only take the two aforementioned documents. Asking them if they recognize that this is an outstanding circumstance that their department protocols isn't designed to handle and if they could make exceptions I was given a flat out no. A sergeant later called me back and told me to look into a certificate of citizenship. I did, it costs 600 dollars and is entirely useless to me because I'm spending that 600 dollars for nothing else but getting an LTC. I called back and asked if they would accept the certificate of citizenship to make sure that the 600 dollar investment would at least allow me to practice my 2a. Even with this financial barrier put up in front of me I was determined. I was given a flat out no. Essentially, they do not recognize my citizenship. They are "aware" that there are more than two ways of becoming a citizen but no they will not recognize them.

I have been a citizen for 7 years now. Clean record, not even a speeding ticket. My family has lived in the United States for nearly 20 years. When I got my passport back in 2007 it was the proudest moment of my life because I finally felt that my rights were cemented and I would fiercely defend them, for myself and my fellow citizens. Calling bpd was the first time I ever felt like a second class citizen.

I am now giving up on my ltc application in Boston after spending all that money on range time to practice for moon island and for my safety course. I hope that my fellow citizens searching for information like I did can take something from my experience. And once again thanks

Some might say to engage a 2A attorney, but that would quickly exceed $600. I recommend moving to a green town.
 
Unfortunately looks like you're going to have to lawyer up. Good luck ! Stick to your target going to be a long process but you will prevail because your right as an American citizen
 
Don't give up. Send your info (story) to [email protected] and see what they can do for you.

They won Haas v. Fletcher in USDC for green card holders, I'm not sure if that will help or not but it might.

Good luck and don't give up hope.
 
Don't give up. Send your info (story) to [email protected] and see what they can do for you.

They won Haas v. Fletcher in USDC for green card holders, I'm not sure if that will help or not but it might.

Good luck and don't give up hope.
I second this. This is the kind of BS that they need to be taken to task for.
 
Thank you for your swift replies, a credit to such a passionate community. I've taken your advice to contact comm2a with my issue. I am flabbergasted by their response. To be honest, when I visited the first time, the licensing officer I briefly met told me she had never heard of a derived citizenship. The second one, a sergeant whom I spoke to on the phone with, told me the same thing, that she had never seen it before and in her own words "you have taught me something new today". I just realized my hypocrisy of wanting to protect others rights but abandoning my own. I'll try to fight this and hopefully the right step is with the folks over at comm2a. It's not about an LTC card anymore but about how humiliating it is to have to explain to these people that you are a citizen and them having the power to say no, you are not. I don't wish this feeling on anyone. Thanks for the support, I will report back as soon as I hear anything.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi rob, that is for a replacement ID. Because I have never gone through the process, I do not have a certificate on file with them and they cannot render a copy. I would have to go through a a new process which is 600 dollars, quoted directed from the USCIS website.
 
Hi rob, that is for a replacement ID. Because I have never gone through the process, I do not have a certificate on file with them and they cannot render a copy. I would have to go through a a new process which is 600 dollars, quoted directed from the USCIS website.
I noticed that and edited my post.
 
Thank you for your swift replies, a credit to such a passionate community. I've taken your advice to contact comm2a with my issue. I am flabbergasted by their response. To be honest, when I visited the first time, the licensing officer I briefly met told me she had never heard of a derived citizenship. The second one, a sergeant whom I spoke to on the phone with, told me the same thing, that she had never seen it before and in her own words "you have taught me something new today". I just realized my hypocrisy of wanting to protect others rights but abandoning my own. I'll try to fight this and hopefully the right step is with the folks over at comm2a. It's not about an LTC card anymore but about how humiliating it is to have to explain to these people that you are a citizen and them having the power to say no, you are not. I don't wish this feeling on anyone. Thanks for the support, I will report back as soon as I hear anything.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi rob, that is for a replacement ID. Because I have never gone through the process, I do not have a certificate on file with them and they cannot render a copy. I would have to go through a a new process which is 600 dollars, quoted directed from the USCIS website.

Good luck!!!
 
Thank you for your swift replies, a credit to such a passionate community. I've taken your advice to contact comm2a with my issue. I am flabbergasted by their response. To be honest, when I visited the first time, the licensing officer I briefly met told me she had never heard of a derived citizenship. The second one, a sergeant whom I spoke to on the phone with, told me the same thing, that she had never seen it before and in her own words "you have taught me something new today". I just realized my hypocrisy of wanting to protect others rights but abandoning my own. I'll try to fight this and hopefully the right step is with the folks over at comm2a. It's not about an LTC card anymore but about how humiliating it is to have to explain to these people that you are a citizen and them having the power to say no, you are not. I don't wish this feeling on anyone. Thanks for the support, I will report back as soon as I hear anything.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi rob, that is for a replacement ID. Because I have never gone through the process, I do not have a certificate on file with them and they cannot render a copy. I would have to go through a a new process which is 600 dollars, quoted directed from the USCIS website.

Yes, but a citizenship is a citizenship regardless of how you acquired it. It does suck that you can't run for the US presidency but hey one can live with that.
 
I am a friend of the OP and what irks me about this situation is that they denied him even before the application process began. The BPD gets to deny his rights without even needing to justify themselves.

He got me into the hobby in the first place and makes me angry that to them a Certificate of Citizenship is not good enough proof that he is a citizen.
 
Thank you for your swift replies, a credit to such a passionate community. I've taken your advice to contact comm2a with my issue. I am flabbergasted by their response. To be honest, when I visited the first time, the licensing officer I briefly met told me she had never heard of a derived citizenship. The second one, a sergeant whom I spoke to on the phone with, told me the same thing, that she had never seen it before and in her own words "you have taught me something new today". I just realized my hypocrisy of wanting to protect others rights but abandoning my own. I'll try to fight this and hopefully the right step is with the folks over at comm2a. It's not about an LTC card anymore but about how humiliating it is to have to explain to these people that you are a citizen and them having the power to say no, you are not. I don't wish this feeling on anyone. Thanks for the support, I will report back as soon as I hear anything.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi rob, that is for a replacement ID. Because I have never gone through the process, I do not have a certificate on file with them and they cannot render a copy. I would have to go through a a new process which is 600 dollars, quoted directed from the USCIS website.

If you contacted us I need to check the intake system. I have a few backlogs as I was on vacation.
 
We do. I have another one in a similar position and I am just waiting for their denial. Passports equal citizenship. Any other position will get sued..


Op, contact comm2a.

This. You can travel the world and be treated like an American except America. Call comm2a and good luck.
 
Some might say to engage a 2A attorney, but that would quickly exceed $600. I recommend moving to a green town.

It's not a red town/green town issue, it's a Massachusetts issue. You have to prove your legal status as a citizen by showing either your birth certificate or certificate of naturalization. OP doesn't have either document. I was quite surprised when this came up for me as I didn't expect I'd have to use my naturalization certificate for anything once I had a passport. Fortunately I knew where it was.
 
It's not a red town/green town issue, it's a Massachusetts issue. You have to prove your legal status as a citizen by showing either your birth certificate or certificate of naturalization. OP doesn't have either document. I was quite surprised when this came up for me as I didn't expect I'd have to use my naturalization certificate for anything once I had a passport. Fortunately I knew where it was.

I don't remember showing any citizenship documentation when I got my LTC in Waltham. If they can't figure it out from your SSN (which they figure out from your driver's licence) they're just being obstructionist.

And... a US passport *is* proof of citizenship. The fact that they won't take it is just them trying to (successfully, I guess) make it difficult for anyone to get an LTC. I have no idea where my birth cirtificate is. I've never needed it.
 
I don't remember showing any citizenship documentation when I got my LTC in Waltham. If they can't figure it out from your SSN (which they figure out from your driver's licence) they're just being obstructionist.

And... a US passport *is* proof of citizenship. The fact that they won't take it is just them trying to (successfully, I guess) make it difficult for anyone to get an LTC. I have no idea where my birth cirtificate is. I've never needed it.

OK, maybe I misunderstood. Thought this was a state thing.
 
OK, maybe I misunderstood. Thought this was a state thing.

It's state law that you have to be a citizen or be a permanent resident, that's true.

But Boston is the only city that make you prove it with documents that almost nobody has easy access to.
 
When I first applied my LTC in a green town in 2009 , not Boston, I do have to show proof of citizenship. There are only 2 document listed as proof of citizenship. Birth certificate and naturalization certificate. I do have to show either document. Passport is listed as not acceptable document. Also, I just start to renew my LTC on another Suburb town. The application form also have listed this requirement. I do have to show proof of citizenship using either birth certificate or naturalization certificate.

Sent from my Tinfoil hat
 
It's not a red town/green town issue, it's a Massachusetts issue. You have to prove your legal status as a citizen by showing either your birth certificate or certificate of naturalization. OP doesn't have either document. I was quite surprised when this came up for me as I didn't expect I'd have to use my naturalization certificate for anything once I had a passport. Fortunately I knew where it was.


Yes. As a naturalized citizen it is different on some forms. I have had to supply my certificate number on a couple of recent documents for the state, including healthcare and my LTC.

I used my passport for my Florida permit with no trouble.
 
to op all practicing pro 2a citizens are treated like 2nd class citizens in this state.
 
OP - to get a passport you needed to have a naturalization certificate as proof of citizenship so you must have that document somewhere ...

In the OP he explained that he is not a naturalized citizen. His parent(s) are.

He's a citizen, just through a slightly unusual vector.

(Welcome to America, Anon - Even with all our warts, it's a nice place to be)
 
Best of luck to the OP. I hope Comm2A sues the City of Boston and the judge slaps them upside the head. If you have a US passport then you are a US citizen. They are being obstructionist bureaucrats just because they can.
 
This appears to have been an _opportunity_ to deny an LTC. I doubt Boston, as an issuing authority, would pass up such an opportunity.
 
Make sure everyone is using the comm2a site to purchase through amazon so we can support causes like this. Christmas will be coming up.
 
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