Body Armor

[Jude Thaddeus]

Calsdad, someone in that thread ( I don't remember who, I read both the first and second thread about this) mentioned km2 Kevlar. Some just used old vests or test panels to concoct this solution.

 

[FreeWillie]

It's been a while since I looked at this - but there are different rating levels. The highest level can take a hit from 30.06 AP - and not get penetration. I don't remember if the standard says it should be able to take another hit or not.

These guys are all shooting at the plates with variants of .223 and .308. Before you start making a direct comparison between ceramic and steel plates I would like to see what happens to one of these AR-500 steel plates when somebody takes a few shots at it with 30.06 AP.

The AR-500 plates are NOT rated to defeat 30.06AP, only 7.62x51 NATO (.308). I would imagine 30.06AP would punch right through it like butter.

 

[loneranger]

In thanks for the link. +1

 

[FreeWillie]

I'll have to read thru the whole thread and absorb what they did. The Kevlar/Herculiner layer sounds like it's the key to making the plate work so you don't get shredded with spall. The reason why they starting getting rounds thru the plate is that they likely work hardened and weakened the plate by hitting it in the same place over and over and over again. But 30 rounds is pretty impressive. If you're going to get hit 30 times in the same place you're just doing it wrong.

The Kevlar/Herculiner layer is basically a composite - like fiberglass is a composite. The real question probably is: what TYPE of Kevlar did they use - because I believe there are different types. This is the question to get asked - because Kevlar is available in sheet form. There are places you can buy it for building composite parts for race cars and so forth. The thing I don't know is if the Kevlar used for a vest is the same as the Kevlar used to make body part for a car. There is probably differences in the weave and so forth.

This has got me really thinking about getting some more armor (steel plates) - and doing the Kevlar / Herculiner thing.

You want Kevlar 29 for the layers. K29 is specifically designed for protection use in vests and armor.

http://www.armorco.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=215

Group buy for a whole roll?

 

[KDeez]

I will likely set aside some funds to buy this rig if I don't win the contest because I have been wanting one for a long time, just couldn't seem to find a setup I could afford.

Same here. Maybe they'll give us like 10% off if we can get 10 people in on one bulk order.

 

[Terminator03]

Same here. Maybe they'll give us like 10% off if we can get 10 people in on one bulk order.

That would be cool. We are in the same neck of the woods based on your location (I'm in Feeding Hills). If we could get a small group together in this area it would be awesome.

 

[calsdad]

Calsdad, someone in that thread ( I don't remember who, I read both the first and second thread about this) mentioned km2 Kevlar. Some just used old vests or test panels to concoct this solution.

Thanks - if that is what they are using - it looks like you can buy it in sheet form from a number of different sources.

There are listings on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=Kevlar-KM2-600-Denier-Fabric-1-Yard-

Doesn't look like it's all that expensive - a yard is about $16.00

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You want Kevlar 29 for the layers. K29 is specifically designed for protection use in vests and armor.

http://www.armorco.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=215

Group buy for a whole roll?

If a group buy gets going for Kevlar or plates (or both) - I would be interested. Maybe we could even do a "plate build" somewhere ?!

I would in for that. I could probably pull a few other people in also.

 

[KDeez]

Group buy for a whole roll?

I'd be in for that. I need a good plate carrier set up anyways, sounds like this K29 is the way to go since I want a steel plate set up anyways.

 

[KDeez]

That would be cool. We are in the same neck of the woods based on your location (I'm in Feeding Hills). If we could get a small group together in this area it would be awesome.

Yeah I'm right on the Spfld line, lets see where this thread goes and we'll go from there if more people show interest.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

Thanks - if that is what they are using - it looks like you can buy it in sheet form from a number of different sources.

There are listings on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=Kevlar-KM2-600-Denier-Fabric-1-Yard-

Doesn't look like it's all that expensive - a yard is about $16.00

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If a group buy gets going for Kevlar or plates (or both) - I would be interested. Maybe we could even do a "plate build" somewhere ?!

I would in for that. I could probably pull a few other people in also.

If I was going to go through the effort I would probably add some Kevlar to the Herculiner, but remember kevlar expires and becomes useless on a long enough timeline. The Herculiner and steel will never go bad so as far as storage goes, I'd rely more heavily on the Herculiner with less of an emphasis on the kevlar.

 

[Terminator03]

If I was going to go through the effort I would probably add some Kevlar to the Herculiner, but remember kevlar expires and becomes useless on a long enough timeline. The Herculiner and steel will never go bad so as far as storage goes, I'd rely more heavily on the Herculiner with less of an emphasis on the kevlar.

Not disagreeing with you totally, but the main thing that causes degradation in kevlar is UV, so keeping the plates out of direct sunlight should make this a non-issue. Adding a layer of Herculiner to the exterior will also go along way to protecting the kevlar. Basically, what I'm saying is that this "concern" is a non-issue as long as you aren't rocking your rig every day while walking around in the daylight. For most of us that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[FreeWillie]

If I was going to go through the effort I would probably add some Kevlar to the Herculiner, but remember kevlar expires and becomes useless on a long enough timeline. The Herculiner and steel will never go bad so as far as storage goes, I'd rely more heavily on the Herculiner with less of an emphasis on the kevlar.

DuPont ran test on the shelf life of Kevlar and decided it was insignificant UNLESS exposed to high temperatures and excessive UV. If you encapsulated the Kevlar in Herculiner I would imagine that shelf life is irrelevant unless stored directly in sunlight.

But your point is valid. The tests they did on AK47 indicated that a pure Herculiner solution was just as effective as a Kevlar/Herculiner solution. The only difference was the thickness of the Herculiner.

 

[FreeWillie]

12 hours to go and only 4600 entries. Still pretty good odds.

 

[FreeWillie]

Thanks - if that is what they are using - it looks like you can buy it in sheet form from a number of different sources.

There are listings on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=Kevlar-KM2-600-Denier-Fabric-1-Yard-

Doesn't look like it's all that expensive - a yard is about $16.00

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If a group buy gets going for Kevlar or plates (or both) - I would be interested. Maybe we could even do a "plate build" somewhere ?!

I would in for that. I could probably pull a few other people in also.

The KM2 is suitable as it is used for ballistic applications but the K29 is specifically designed for armor and for anti-spalling applications.

KM2 is about half the price of K29 (if that tells you something)

 

[Cixic]

Thanks!! Looks like a nice package

 

[Timber]

The AR-500 plates are NOT rated to defeat 30.06AP, only 7.62x51 NATO (.308). I would imagine 30.06AP would punch right through it like butter.

It will punch right through like butter.

I swear, you guys could fall into a bucket of tits and come out sucking your own thumbs.

 

[careful34]

Thanks for the link! Very generous of you!

 

[FreeWillie]

It will punch right through like butter.

I swear, you guys could fall into a bucket of tits and come out sucking your own thumbs.

What will it do to one of those plates. Edumacate me.

 

[xtry51]

30.06 AP will go clean thru a standard 1/4" steel armor plate or any other plate rated to only LIII. It takes a LIV or higher plate to stop a single 30cal AP round. Most tests I've seen it will only stop one at LIV, not multiple.

ETA: I think it's important to point out a few things. 1) you're not going to know what you're getting shot at with unless you have intel of some sort, meaning if they're using 30.06 AP it'll be to late once you figure that out. 2) anyone stashing 30.06 AP and using it on you more than likely has extensive gun knowledge and is probably a decent shot. 3) in the event you know beforehand that the people you're about to engage are using AP ammo the best course of action is TO NOT ENGAGE.

I think the spalling issue is a decent point especially since there seems to be limited knowledge, at least in the cost dependent civilian world, on avenues to reduce it cheaply. Enough anyway for me to explore it a little over the next few weeks and see if I come up with anything of value.

 

[Terminator03]

30.06 AP will go clean thru a standard 1/4" steel armor plate or any other plate rated to only LIII. It takes a LIV or higher plate to stop a single 30cal AP round. Most tests I've seen it will only stop one at LIV, not multiple.

Is that assuming that the next round hits in the same spot, though? I guess if you set your plate as a stationary target, and keep shelling it from a bench rested rifle, but in reality, who is going to get 2 hits in the same spot on a moving target? Very unlikely if you ask me, and having the ability to survive "a" sniper hit is good enough for most people to get out of Dodge.

 

[xtry51]

I only brought that up because the upside to steel armor is its long term effectiveness versus ceramics.

 

[Terminator03]

I only brought that up because the upside to steel armor is its long term effectiveness versus ceramics.

Gotcha. I guess it would suffice to say that the steel plates should do the trick for most situations where they would actually be needed.

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

Bump

Gearhog.com has a $40 gift card for $20 @ ar500armor.com today. It's good till next year.