BAD, BAD Gun Owner!!!!

[Hillie4life]

How is someone a hyprocrite for believing people should have a handicapped space, regardless of how far the able bodied have to walk?

And what principles are based on making the disabled do with which they are disabled?

Don't sweat it Lupis, there are way too many extremely opinionated hypocrites on this board. They don't understand what principle is.

 

[Cato]

That's a great question.

But maybe they arent going to walk around, maybe they have a wheelchair, maybe a walker, maybe they are just meeting some one for dinner or lunch, maybe they work there, maybe they will be using a power chair... who knows.

Maybe they have some other disablity that wouldnt been seen as a disablity to us at all?

I dont think its my place to ask, maybe you can next time youre at the mall and a little old lady gets out of her oldsmobile you can ask her if she really needs that spot (and maybe while youre at it, explain why you deserve it more and how the government should mind its own business), and be sure to ask her what she planned on doing in the mall that day.... you have fun with that.

And be sure to kick a puppy on your way out, that'll really seal the deal.

See this is what’s wrong with the public school system. I asked a fairly simple and straight forward question and received an answer to a question that I did not ask involving a wheelchair, a walker, a meeting for dinner or lunch, a mall employee, a power chair, a little old lady and a puppy.

My question involved why would someone who actually walks around for three hours need a handicapped parking space and it was rhetorical. The answer is obviously “they don’t”.

 

[Hillie4life]

See this is what’s wrong with the public school system. I asked a fairly simple and straight forward question and received an answer to a question that I did not ask involving a wheelchair, a walker, a meeting for dinner or lunch, a mall employee, a power chair, a little old lady and a puppy.

My question involved why would someone who actually walks around for three hours need a handicapped parking space and it was rhetorical. The answer is obviously “they don’t”.

This is what's wrong with poorly ventilated indoor shooting ranges, your question assumed that the only reason people use handicapped parking spaces was to walk around for three hours. It wasn't rhetorical

 

[Cato]

your question assumed that the only reason people use handicapped parking spaces was to walk around for three hours.

No it didn't. Read it again. And then a few more times.

 

[Cato]

Don't sweat it Lupis, there are way too many extremely opinionated hypocrites on this board. They don't understand what principle is.

Right DW and Lupis.

The sole purpose of government is to protect individual rights. Those in government should not control private property.

Without government interference the demand for handicap parking spaces would result in the proper amount of spaces as businesses compete for handicapped consumers.

However, if society feels that that for the good of everyone it needs to control the parking lot then it should take the property that the parking lot sits on by eminent domain giving just compensation to the property owner who no longer has control over the property. Then property taxes should be adjusted accordingly and the government would take over maintenance of the property.

 

[DickWanner]

How is someone a hyprocrite for believing people should have a handicapped space, regardless of how far the able bodied have to walk?

And what principles are based on making the disabled do with which they are disabled?

I never quoted any post nor did I make any indication as to whom I was talking about. You just in fact outed yourself as a hypocrite

 

[Hillie4life]

Why does someone need a to park near the door in order to go walk around the mall for three hours?

Well since specifics were not given as to who the question was directed to and you have offered no further specifics. Since the conversation at hand deals with the pertanence of the disabled to have as much parking it would be assumed the comment was directed towards the disabled. If I misunderstood I apologize but some clarification would have resolved this much faster

 

[Hillie4life]

I never quoted any post nor did I make any indication as to whom I was talking about. You just in fact outed yourself as a hypocrite

Ya it was a real long shot to figure it out. A real hardy boy mystery

 

[Cato]

Well since specifics were not given as to who the question was directed to and you have offered no further specifics. Since the conversation at hand deals with the pertanence of the disabled to have as much parking it would be assumed the comment was directed towards the disabled. If I misunderstood I apologize but some clarification would have resolved this much faster

I was referring to people who park in handicap spots and then walk around a mall or similar place for hours. I have seen this occur numerous times.

It is irrelevant to me whether or not they have a permit. If you can walk around for three hours you should not be taking up the spot.

 

[Hillie4life]

I never quoted any post nor did I make any indication as to whom I was talking about. You just in fact outed yourself as a hypocrite

And just because I make note of he potential reference to me doesn't mean I there agree with you. Hence my response, which you have still left unanswered.

 

[Hillie4life]

I was referring to people who park in handicap spots and then walk around a mall or similar place for hours. I have seen this occur numerous times.

It is irrelevant to me whether or not they have a permit. If you can walk around for three hours you should not be taking up the spot.

Your original post was an absolute statement, not all people who park in handicapped spaces walk around for three hours. The comment added nothing to the conversation.

In the case that people do that we have no control, that does not change the fact that the spaces are there for those who need them, regardless of whether they get used or not

 

[Baystatesuks]

What you are also supposed to do is park in the fire lane. It is okay if you are only running into the store. I actually saw a guy park in a fire lane where a police officer was idling in his car. He told the police officer, "I am just running in" and went inside. The police officer shook his head and then left a nice surprise on his windshield. Truly a moron.

 

[Cato]

Your original post was an absolute statement, not all people who park in handicapped spaces walk around for three hours. The comment added nothing to the conversation.

In the case that people do that we have no control, that does not change the fact that the spaces are there for those who need them, regardless of whether they get used or not

No, my original post was a question not a statement.

I wrote "Why does someone need a to park near the door in order to go walk around the mall for three hours?"

In my opinion a lot of people obtain permits to park in handicap spots that should not have them because they are fully capable of walking for hours on end. I've seen it.

 

[Hillie4life]

No, my original post was a question not a statement.

I wrote "Why does someone need a to park near the door in order to go walk around the mall for three hours?"

In my opinion a lot of people obtain permits to park in handicap spots that should not have them because they are fully capable of walking for hours on end. I've seen it.

But thats not what we are talking about here.

I dont disagree with you, I had a friend who would use his grandma's tag all the time (ephasis on "had" a friend). I think that's sleezy at best.

But idiots like this dont change the fact that we need them.

 

[Hillie4life]

Alright guys, its about that time for me.

I'm going to say my peace and be done, and I hope you can respect that.

In a group I would normally be one of the first to say the government needs to keep its fingers out of our business. That normally they do more harm then good, but certain things need defending.

We need government, its true. Think of one stable country that has no or little government intervention/programs. That doesn't mean government should control everything. (Or need to help EVERYONE)

I think as men and woman who understand everyday what it is like to have our rights challenged we should be the first to defend the right of the those who might not be able to defend themselves. I for one could care less about more or less handicapped spots, and the government telling businesses how many they need is not a problem with me either... I'd rather have more then we need (spots, not government regulation ).

Honestly I cant even believe we are having this arguement. The guy who parked in the dunkins spot is probably a scumbag, and we as able bodied citizens should be on the look out for people who are willing to take advantage, including those who use the spots and not need them... but regardless of the actions of a few... the need still exists.

I appreciate the discussion guys, it kept me awake all day at work haha. Thanks again gents.

 

[namedpipes]

Absolutism in anything is always bad. No exceptions!

 

[DickWanner]

And just because I make note of he potential reference to me doesn't mean I there agree with you. Hence my response, which you have still left unanswered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k

 

[Hillie4life]

Absolutism in anything is always bad. No exceptions!

Nice. I see what you did there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k

Very cute.

 

[Cato]

But thats not what we are talking about here.

I dont disagree with you, I had a friend who would use his grandma's tag all the time (ephasis on "had" a friend). I think that's sleezy at best.

But idiots like this dont change the fact that we need them.

I wasn't referring to people who borrow the tags. I'm talking about people who have their doctor provide the necessary paperwork in order for them to obtain the tag through normal procedure. But despite their medical problem they are capable of walking for great distances.

I have seen people park in a HC space and walk in to the store with a slight limp. I'll run in to them several times while walking around the store for a long time. These people should not have HC tags.

If you can go shopping and walk around for a few hours then you do not need a HC tag to save you 100 feet.

 

[lupis42]

Wow, a great deal has happened while I was in meetings.

Cato, thanks for holding up my end here.


Hillie4life:
I think we can agree that the point of contention here is between the right of a business to decide how their property will be set up, and the right of the disabled to be able to function?

I see where you're coming from, I just see handicapped spaces as a special privilege, a kind gesture similar to holding the door for someone who's struggling with a giant pile of bags. I certainly would agree that anyone who parks in a handicapped space without needing it is being a jerk.

I just don't make the connection between "people who can't walk shouldn't have to park at the a** end of the parking lot" to "the government should require that everyone have handicapped parking spaces".

 

[Hillie4life]

Wow, a great deal has happened while I was in meetings.

Cato, thanks for holding up my end here.


Hillie4life:
I think we can agree that the point of contention here is between the right of a business to decide how their property will be set up, and the right of the disabled to be able to function?

I see where you're coming from, I just see handicapped spaces as a special privilege, a kind gesture similar to holding the door for someone who's struggling with a giant pile of bags. I certainly would agree that anyone who parks in a handicapped space without needing it is being a jerk.

I just don't make the connection between "people who can't walk shouldn't have to park at the a** end of the parking lot" to "the government should require that everyone have handicapped parking spaces".

I'd say that summarizes it pretty well. And I definitely see where you're coming from.

I just see it as a step backwards to hope that businesses will oblige people out of the goodness of their hearts even if that means, losing prime parking real estate, building ramps/elevators, putting in automatic doors when they doubtably see that much revenue for what those few spaces would bring. And to make these people, as individuals go up against businesses to have their needs met (which aren’t extravagant, it’s a parking space), or even claim that they could or should have to take their business elsewhere is also a step backwards (it's almost like segregation). I’m just an idealist, seeing that disabled veteran coming home and not being able to go out because he/she finds it too difficult is at the very least a smack in the face.

We all know that the only thing worse then big business, is big government. In this matter I see this as a good regulation, and would have to make that connection.

I like your perception of it being a kind gesture, which it should be, but just as people don’t always hold the door open, people won’t always see it as second nature to accommodate the disabled. (Just ask the fat guy )

 

[GunGuy]

Isn't being fat and ignorant a bonafide disability? He could prolly get a tag.

Especially in this state! Without a doubt there is probably some liberal moron willing to give the fat guy the benefit of the doubt. Framingham PD would have taken care of it had they been there, but they were busy doing real work.

On another note:
I was at a breakfast place in Natick, MA on Black Friday when a prissy little Abercrombie, Ug boot wearing, spoiled rotten brat came blasting through the door on her cell phone. She was there to ask her mom to use her (the mom's) handicap placard. The mother just gave it to her and joked about how she was on academic probation and was a diva in training. She is a little ---- and the mom an enabling dope. She wanted the tag to get a good spot at the mall.

 

[namedpipes]

Especially in this state! Without a doubt there is probably some liberal moron willing to give the fat guy the benefit of the doubt. Framingham PD would have taken care of it had they been there, but they were busy doing real work.

I've had mixed results with Framingham PD. Most seem to be on the ball, professional and trying to do a good job in a somewhat tough town. There are a few donut eating asshats though.

 

[maee]

Isn't being fat and ignorant a bonafide disability? He could prolly get a tag.

Only in Massachusetts, California and New York. Did you see his license plate? Was it out of state?

 

[clinotus]

Holy Soccer Mom thread. OP why didnt you confront the gent, or flag down a public safety official? Running home and posting someones license plate is something normally reserved for those with little character...and minivans.

 

[GSG]

Government regulation is a clumsy tool for guiding human behavior.

+1

Well my ex-gf had an HP placard for her car and you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell from looking at her that she was disabled. She was though and if anyone like you had ever tried to confront her with me around you'd have found out fast what a mistake THAT could be.
As for people who park in the spots without an HP placard, I vote for blocking them in with your car and then taking your sweet-ass time with whatever you are doing inside the store.

So you vote for blocking them in with your car, unless of course it's your ex-gf who forgot to put the placard up, in which case doing or saying anything to her would result in you getting upset...?

Because legislating compassion is stupid and inefficient.

+1, exactly.

The issue is that the government is forcing private business owners to reserve several spaces for handicapped parking. Then the business can only allow people to park there (on private property!) if that person has a permission slip issued by the government.

And all this ensures is that some people with placards will be able to park closer some of the time, at a cost of how much to tax-payers?

 

[GSG]

Holy Soccer Mom thread. OP why didnt you confront the gent, or flag down a public safety official?

Probably because the OP was leaving, and no cops were around.

 

[Pomeraniac]

Probably because the OP was leaving, and no cops were around.

Yup, that is exactly why.

I didn't want to engage the guy because it would have undoubtedly gotten heated. I assumed he was carrying. I sure was. This was a prime example of DE-escalating an incident.

As for posting his plate here and outing his behavior? I hope he reads it. I have no qualms about starting this thread.

 

[namedpipes]

If Pomeraniac HAD confronted clowncakes, and clowncakes reacted in any way other than shamefaced "oops" and moved his car, he'd be jumped on for "trying to be a cop".

How many times have we read/posted saying "when you carry, avoid confrontation - it is only a last resort defense"?

Except of course, when someone does just that and gets dumped on for doing so.

*maybe* you shouldn't have posted the jerk's plate number, but with that possible exception you did the right thing.

 

[Pomeraniac]

If Pomeraniac HAD confronted clowncakes, and clowncakes reacted in any way other than shamefaced "oops" and moved his car, he'd be jumped on for "trying to be a cop".

How many times have we read/posted saying "when you carry, avoid confrontation - it is only a last resort defense"?

Except of course, when someone does just that and gets dumped on for doing so.

*maybe* you shouldn't have posted the jerk's plate number, but with that possible exception you did the right thing.

Thanks, namedpipes. Thanks to others who understood. To those who didn't, well, I'm glad that at least we had the chance to discuss it in a respectful and reasonable way, and I appreciate that.