AZ - Jose Guerena Shot 60 Times By SWAT Team

So, I'm thinking this will have a fairly chilling effect on selection of an AR as a home defense weapon.

I don't see how the cops explain their way out of this one.
 
MisterHappy said:
There is no reason to resist the police, if you're not a criminal.

If they come at 2AM and kick in the door, they obviously have a good reason

And, in the unlikely event that a mistake is made, you'll get a sincere public apology.

I mean, we're living in a country where we have constitutional protections, right?

Didn't we fight a war or two to make sure that Draconian goverments would be kept down?
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I hope you are being sarcastic. If I hear someone kicking down my door at 2am I'm not going to assume its the police that went to the wrong house. I'm going to get ready to defend myself and family. The police made a mistake and it looks like he didn't get a "sincere public apology".
 
Blitz1 said:
Like the one they shot 60+ times?
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60 times? Oh, I thought they said 66 times, now that would have been unreasonable.

Considering he was woken from a sound sleep with only the concern of defending his wife and child from masked intruders at 2AM... 60 times is a totally reasonable number of rounds to be shot with by government agents.
 
jamesvt said:
I hope you are being sarcastic. If I hear someone kicking down my door at 2am I'm not going to assume its the police that went to the wrong house. I'm going to get ready to defend myself and family. The police made a mistake and it looks like he didn't get a "sincere public apology".
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He was, adjust your sarcasm meter [grin]
 
jamesvt said:
If I hear someone kicking down my door at 2am I'm not going to assume its the police that went to the wrong house. I'm going to get ready to defend myself and family.
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They were at the right house, they just got the warrant with bad intel. I hear where you're coming from.

I'm just glad he didn't have a dog.
 
GraftonNH said:
60 times? Oh, I thought they said 66 times, now that would have been unreasonable.

Considering he was woken from a sound sleep with only the concern of defending his wife and child from masked intruders at 2AM... 60 times is a totally reasonable number of rounds to be shot with by government agents.
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I heard the final count was 71. I think the link is in this thread.

This Marine put His life on the line for His Country only to be gunned down in His home by a bunch of jack booted thugs.

A link sent to me today from a friend.

http://snarkybytes.com/2011/05/18/something-isnt-right-here/
 
Titan said:
So, I'm thinking this will have a fairly chilling effect on selection of an AR as a home defense weapon.

I don't see how the cops explain their way out of this one.
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Collateral damage in the war on drugs. Remember, it's for the children. Mistakes will be made sometimes, but the cost of ending the war on drugs is far higher, etc. etc.

If that fails, they'll find evidence that he was a terrorist too.
 
lupis42 said:
Collateral damage in the war on drugs. Remember, it's for the children. Mistakes will be made sometimes, but the cost of ending the war on drugs is far higher, etc. etc.

If that fails, they'll find evidence that he was a terrorist too.
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Well didnt some high ranking pol. say that we need to check ex soldiers as domestic terrorists?
 
Janet Napolitano. How many military personnel within her Department did she refer to as potential terror threats? I know I, for one, am insulted.
 
Titan said:
So, I'm thinking this will have a fairly chilling effect on selection of an AR as a home defense weapon.
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No, not really. I bet the same thing would have happened if the guy had an O/U with ducks on it, or a handgun. Those guys were amped up and ready to kill something, and when one of them had an ND, that was all the excuse they needed.. [thinking]

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
No, not really. I bet the same thing would have happened if the guy had an O/U with ducks on it, or a handgun. Those guys were amped up and ready to kill something, and when one of them had an ND, that was all the excuse they needed.. [thinking]

-Mike
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That. I don't really understand the fear of using a scary looking gun for HD. I want the most effective tool to defend myself, my loved ones, and my home. If I need to use it, I am going to jail anyways, so why handicap myself?
 
drgrant said:
No, not really. I bet the same thing would have happened if the guy had an O/U with ducks on it, or a handgun. Those guys were amped up and ready to kill something, and when one of them had an ND, that was all the excuse they needed.. [thinking]

-Mike
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Agreed. The joke was about the AR, because the AR is what he used.

If he had used a shotgun, the joke would have been about shotguns for HD.
 
Since Jose Guerena was killed by the Pima Regional SWAT team May 5th, there's been a lot of criticism of the Pima County Sheriff's Department, even though Guerena was reportedly aiming an assault rifle at officers when they shot him, some 60 times.

"In my opinion, it lends itself to excessive force, especially when no shots were fired from one side, weapon was on safety and these people are coming into his home," says Chris Scileppi, an attorney representing Guerena's wife and two kids.

Wednesday, the Sheriff's Department snapped back in a written release saying, "the public has received misinformation and emotionally charged speculation."

>snip<

So what does it all mean?

That the wheels of an ugly legal battle may already be turning and the Sheriff's Department doesn't want this case to be tried in the court of public opinion. However, each of the officers involved in the May 5th shooting have acquired attorney Michael Storie to represent their side of things.

A press conference is scheduled at Storie's Third Avenue office at 10 a.m. Thursday.....
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http://www.kold.com/story/14672691/was-pima-swat-killing-an-excessive-show-of-force
 
pretty sad, guy got shot 60 times out of 71. Damn Bin Bin didn't even get that many bullets, but if you believe in karma or anything maybe something tragic will happen to them and their families as well someday. I know its harsh but this is whats its coming to today, if the guy got off a shot or two okay maybe but damn the gun was on Safe with no shots. WTF!!! Tobad the gov't doesn't have the balls to step up for one of their own.
Semper Fi
Jose Guerena
 
drgrant said:
No, not really. I bet the same thing would have happened if the guy had an O/U with ducks on it, or a handgun. Those guys were amped up and ready to kill something, and when one of them had an ND, that was all the excuse they needed.. [thinking]
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And, Mike? How much do you want to bet that it comes back just that way - ND - and the officers responsible for unloading on that poor Marine get, at most, a letter of reprimand and time off with pay? More likely, it'll just be "Well, accidents happen when We're Trying To Protect The Public" and no penalties. [thinking]
 
dwarven1 said:
And, Mike? How much do you want to bet that it comes back just that way - ND - and the officers responsible for unloading on that poor Marine get, at most, a letter of reprimand and time off with pay? More likely, it'll just be "Well, accidents happen when We're Trying To Protect The Public" and no penalties. [thinking]
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Bro Ross,

You mean like in Framingham ? [thinking]

P.S. I know that a review board is going to "examine" the incident, but only to "improve" SWAT tactics and operations.
 
xtry51 said:
O'Connor: "It appears that it was 71 rounds were fired."

Waldman: "Someone on the street might perceive that as excessive force. In your opinion as a law enforcement officer, was it?"

O'Connor: "No, it's not, for a couple of reasons. One, this was an operation being conducted by SWAT members. They have special weapons when they're doing this. Also, where this occurred: There were five officers at the door beginning to make entry into this home, when they engaged this individual that they believed was actually firing at them. They're going to fire until that threat is no longer. And in this case, they fired those rounds in approximately seven seconds. So, it may sound like it's a high number. But when you have five officers firing semi-automatic weapons, that can be done in less than seven seconds, and that's what happened in this case."
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Me thinks thou dost protest too much....me thinks SWAT special weapon had, not a semi, but an auto feature. 3rnd bursts can add up real quick....and in 7 seconds?
 
Reminds me of a quote from Battlestar Galactica. I feel like it kind of applies here.

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

(yes, I know SWAT aren't military, but they sure act like it)
 

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