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Auburn Man has guns confiscated. Related to the Worcester incident.
- Thread starter glockguy17
- Start date
Agreed, but as a former gun dealer, he can't plead ignorance of the law... So, now, unless he takes the probation offer, its a straight up constitutional case on why his LTC/license were revoked and whether his form of "storage" meets the 5:4 definition of the 2nd amendment light...
What are "DD's"? Dunkin Donuts?
Is this a federal case? Is this final? I'd say probation is not too bad considering all the charges.
"Destructive Devices", controlled under NFA 1934....things like firearms other than shotguns with bores larger than .50 (40mm launcher, 20mm rifles, etc), as well as anything containing more than (I THINK) 1/4oz explosive material (grenades, HEDP 40mm rounds)
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There was an interesting case on Holyoke a few years ago. An individual was arrested for illegal carry of a firearm, but the charges didn't stick because they could not convince the court or da (I forget which) that a spudzooka was a firearm. The charges were modified to "infernal machine", and he judge made a determination that a Spuzdooka is not a firearm or infernal machine, which is why we do no have an LTC-P on the books
.
namedpipes
NES Member
I can see the prison yard conversation going like this...
Inmate 90210: So what are YOU in for?
Inmate 92736: Armed Robbery. 3 Years.
Inmate 68374: Assault here. I got 2 left on a 5 year stretch.
Inmate 94372: Unlawful possession of a potato gun. 10 years.
Inmate 92733: Armed robbery. 5 years. Wait a second. Did you say potato gun?!
Shh, don't tell the ATF, or we will all be paying $5 a round for potato munitions as DDs...There was an interesting case on Holyoke a few years ago. An individual was arrested for illegal carry of a firearm, but the charges didn't stick because they could not convince the court or da (I forget which) that a spudzooka was a firearm. The charges were modified to "infernal machine", and he judge made a determination that a Spuzdooka is not a firearm or infernal machine, which is why we do no have an LTC-P on the books
IIRC, the ATF actually made a ruling as to whether a spud gun is a firearm or not. I believe they said it wasn't.
EDIT, Here it is:
As defined in section 921(a) (3) of Title 18, United States Code (USC) the term "firearm" means --
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
As defined in 26 USC subsection 5845(f) (2) the term destructive device includes any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellent, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term 'destructive device' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the USC; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury or his delegate finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.
It is unlawful for anyone to make or possess a destructive device which is not registered in accordance with the provisions of the National Firearms Act.
We have previously examined that certain muzzle loading devices known as "potato guns." These potato guns are constructed from PVC plastic tubing. They use hair spray or a similar aerosol substance for a propellant, and have some type of spark ignitor. We have determined that these devices, as described, are not firearms provided that they are used solely for launching potatoes for recreational purposes. However, any such devices which are used as weapons or used to launch other forms of projectiles may be firearms and destructive devices as defined.
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Firearms Technology Branch, Room 6450
650 Massachusetts Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20226
Sincerely yours,
(signature)
Curtis H. A. Bartlett Acting Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
EDIT, Here it is:
As defined in section 921(a) (3) of Title 18, United States Code (USC) the term "firearm" means --
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
As defined in 26 USC subsection 5845(f) (2) the term destructive device includes any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellent, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term 'destructive device' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the USC; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury or his delegate finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.
It is unlawful for anyone to make or possess a destructive device which is not registered in accordance with the provisions of the National Firearms Act.
We have previously examined that certain muzzle loading devices known as "potato guns." These potato guns are constructed from PVC plastic tubing. They use hair spray or a similar aerosol substance for a propellant, and have some type of spark ignitor. We have determined that these devices, as described, are not firearms provided that they are used solely for launching potatoes for recreational purposes. However, any such devices which are used as weapons or used to launch other forms of projectiles may be firearms and destructive devices as defined.
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Firearms Technology Branch, Room 6450
650 Massachusetts Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20226
Sincerely yours,
(signature)
Curtis H. A. Bartlett Acting Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
Last edited:
I was joking of course, you are correct as I understand it (though per the ATF FAQ, you can request a "classification as a potato gun", but it doesn't end there sadly...
Per wikipedia:
Wikipedia said:
Better safe than sorry, we should coordinate and send 100's of samples to the ATF for classification...
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Update
74-Year-Old Gets Probation For Home Arsenal
WORCESTER, Mass. -- A 74-year-old Auburn man has been placed on probation for 10 years on charges stemming from the seizure of a large quantity of firearms and ammunition from his home.
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/25619035/detail.html
![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
74-Year-Old Gets Probation For Home Arsenal
WORCESTER, Mass. -- A 74-year-old Auburn man has been placed on probation for 10 years on charges stemming from the seizure of a large quantity of firearms and ammunition from his home.
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/25619035/detail.html
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74-Year-Old Gets Probation For Home Arsenal
WORCESTER, Mass. -- A 74-year-old Auburn man has been placed on probation for 10 years on charges stemming from the seizure of a large quantity of firearms and ammunition from his home.
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/25619035/detail.html
But he is such a danger to society that he is now a prohibited person. But not too dangerous to actually punish...
ETA: Not to mention the loss of the property.
Last edited:
Rockrivr1
NES Member
Hell, I was suprised the first time this came around that he didn't have a stand off and shoot out with the police. He had them out gunned hands down. I can't even begin to imagine the financial loss he took when they confiscated all his toys.
I'm betting there's a pocket pistol or two they missed though.....
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
M1911
Moderator
Probation for 10 years? WTF is the point of that? He's a 74-year-old guy who just happened to own some guns without having the correct permission slip from the state.
I hate this state.
I hate this state.
Why doesn't someone in one of these situations sue the state? For unconstitutional laws, stolen property, etc. If the laws are ever going to change it will require massive legal attacks because you aren't going to get anywhere with the voting method.
I am so going to call everything with more than three moving parts an infernal machine.
I want to get a stencil made.
I want to get a stencil made.
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Good question with a good answer. He was facing a life sentence in jail (given his age) v. 10 yrs of probation. You do the math. When you have laws that need to be kicked down through defendants and not through facial challenges finding people willing is difficult. It helps when you have a ADA refusing to deal, but it then becomes random.
If you are providing legal assistance, you have to do so in the best interests of those you are providing it to. You can't brow beat them into doing x. So faced with a slap on the wrist or a stiff prison sentence, the choice is unfortunately obvious. Especially when the judges are more than happy to reinforce the rock the ADAs put people up against. Anyone who challenges these laws may be subject to being disproportionately sentenced in order to dissuade future challenges.
M1911
Moderator
Agreed.
He likely would have been convicted. Any appeal in MA courts would have likely lost (and taken years and $10000s). His only chance would have been to appeal the conviction in federal courts and that would have cost $100000s.
I certainly understand why he plead out.
That is why he had the C4...
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You're making some of us on this list feel really old.
What does it say about MA politicians that they passed a law that bans something defined in a fanciful TV show that was frankly somewhat farcical?
And how about that definition. Anything out of the ordinary can be considered an infernal machine if one can argue it is in any way dangerous.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Potato canons have been called infernal machines .
namedpipes
NES Member
Keep religion out of this! Those are Potatoe Cannon!
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Well, at least that is somewhat sorta related if the cannon was an exothermic type. But yeah, the term is abused and not used in meaningful ways.
![[rofl2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/035.gif "ROFL2 [rofl2]")
40 caliber
NES Member
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