Amica Insurance Is Anti Gun

[EB80]

I wasn't sure whether to post this story in this thread or the other thread on AMica in Off Topic (Unhappy with Amica insurance) but I think the title of this thread, "Amica Insurance is Anti Gun" is more appropriate. Here's what happened to me.

I've had Amica for my auto policy for a few years and been happy with them especially their claims service. A year or so ago I switched my homeowners insurance over to Amica because I hated Progressive and it (switching to Amica) was a non issue. So I'm getting ready to move in a couple weeks and my mortgage broker needed an insurance binder on the new place for closing, so I called Amica 8 days ago on the 22nd, told them I was happy with them and wanted to continue using them to insure my new house. So I spent about 10 minutes with them on the phone answering questions. Underground tank? No, Pool? No. Yada yada. Then they asked me about firearms. I told them that I was a licensed owner of handguns, rifles and shotguns, and they asked me to email them a list of make and model numbers. I also emailed them a copy of my house inspection report. Here's where it gets bizzarre. They asked me how I store my guns and I replied that I comply with Massachusetts law and store all my firearms in a safe. I was then asked if any of the guns are loaded, or if the ammunition is stored separately. I responded truthfully and stated that some of the handguns are stored loaded, and I explained that if one wishes to use a handgun for self defense that it should be loaded. She said she had to run this by her underwriter. I got a call again two days ago saying they might not be able to write my homeowner's policy if I keep a loaded handgun in the house, even if it is stored in a safe. I told her that I wasn't going to be dishonest and that I would continue to store loaded handguns in a safe just like I always have. I got a call back today, 8 days later, saying that they can't insure me because I keep a loaded handgun in my house. They acknowledge it is inside a safe but because it is loaded they will not insure me.

Un-Freaking-Believable.

So now, because they dragged their feet for eight days, I had to push my closing back a week because I don't have an insurance binder in time. And I have to start this process all over with another insurer. I'm pissed off about this. Who the eff do they think they are?

So I'm going to send the customer service rep an email and ask her to put my denial of coverage in writing, because I want all the world to see it. I'll start with the higher ups within their home insurance business unit. It'll go to their CEO, who may or may not read it. I'll post this story on every gun board out there because we responsible gun owners shouldn't tolerate crap like this, and the only way to send a message is to drop Amica like a used rubber and give our business to one of their competitors.

I re-read this entire thread. I assume if you've been a happy customer of Amica that they have no reason to ask you about how you store your firearms because you have an existing business relationship or maybe you are grandfathered. But to those of you who say this must be BS and Amica doesn't discriminate against gun owners you are wrong, because I can guarantee this is where Amica and their underwriters stand on this issue as of today.

This seemed like the appropriate thread in which to post this. My wife and I are moving from MA to NH so I've been calling around trying to get a quote for a HO policy for our new home. I called Amica today and spoke with a Senior Account Rep in the Concord, NH office. As part of the standard underwriting questions, she asked me if I owned any firearms. As someone who works in the industry and having no intention to materially misrepresent myself, I answered in the affirmative. She then proceeded to ask how many I owned. Again, I answered honestly but began getting concerned when she asked what type of handguns I owned (revolver or semi-automatic) and whether or not they were loaded in the home or stored in a safe or with trigger locks. Based on my review of this thread, these questions aren't entirely out of the ordinary for Amica in some cases but then she asked me a question that floored me: "how many bullets do your clips hold?" I was completely taken by surprise and in my shock answered honestly that as of right now I only have 10 round magazines but had to stop at this point and ask why she needed to know this and if I had to notify the company if I were to ever purchase a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds or buy another gun. She stated that they would like to know because of liability exposure and that they would be on the hook if someone got a hold of my gun and shot someone. She also stated that it won't impact the premium but would go into the process of determining whether or not they would offer coverage at all. Needless to say, I won't be buying my insurance through Amica but it was such a strange experience that I felt the need to share it.

I should also mention that I work in the industry for an insurance carrier that only writes insurance in MA (hence the reason why I had to shop around for coverage in NH) and I understand the concept of underwriting and risk analysis but unless Amica is subscribing to the idea that "high-capacity" magazines result in increased frequency or severity of shooting injuries, there is absolutely no reason to ask this question. I should also point out that she did end up providing me with a quote (so I fit through her risk filter) but it was higher than what I found through Liberty Mutual (not that it would have mattered anyway at this point).

I hope some of you find this information helpful and am interested to hear if any other prospective customers of Amica were asked any of these questions.

 

[Lip]

Just spent the day finishing a progressive ins site in westford. Anti 2a signs everywhere. Still carried lols.

 

[richc]

I just applied to Amica. Didn't see this thread until after. I told them about my collection. We'll see if that's a problem.

DOH!

 

[BREWINZ]

I have Amica for home and auto insurance. They asked if I owned firearms and I told them I did. No issue.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

A friend of mine was applying for car and homeowner's insurance. All was going fine and the policy was ready to be issued when the lady asked if he had any guns. Being an honest person he answered yes I have guns. I am licensed to own firearms. She asked if he carried. He said he did. She said "that is going to be a problem". He asked why exercising his 2nd amendment right is a problem. She told him the company will not cover any homes with guns in them.

He was pissed.

Answer is always no, it's no one's business to know !!

 

[Garys]

I've had Amica home, auto, life for almost 40 years. No one has ever asked about guns.

I have Amica for home and auto insurance. They asked if I owned firearms and I told them I did. No issue.

 

[JJ4]

I have Amica for home and auto insurance. They asked if I owned firearms and I told them I did. No issue.

Same here. No issue. The rep informed me about the coverage limits for firearms (along with limits for cash/coins/jewelery) and said that I should list them on the schedule if I wanted to make sure they are insured. I declined. Never heard a word about it from them again.

 

[free]

Your friend is lying to you, or he misunderstood the agent.

Or, the OP made the whole thing up . . .

 

[Buck F]

I’m an Independent Agent so Amica is a direct competitor but I’d be surprised if they had an issue with gun ownership. One of the companies I represent offers a homeowners insurance discount for people who have no dogs, pools, guns or boats over a certain size (due to liability concerns) but I never heard of a company denying insurance to homeowners. Also, all insurance companies have limits on the value of firearms they’ll cover just like they do on jewelry, cash, China, silverware etc. but an outright restriction? I haven’t seen that yet.

 

[Buck F]

But they have agents that work there no?

Amica is a direct writer, they don’t use independent agents; anyone you deal with at Amica is an employee of Amica. They have licensed “agents” (producers) but they’re employees of the company.

 

[Buck F]

Homeowners and liability policies do not pay the policy holder for their own personal injury, therefore, you would be asking for a discount based in the reduction in a risk not related to the policy payouts.

Insurance company agents are not always bright bulbs. I had one ask if a West Highland White Terrier was another term for Pit Bull.

Rob, I own an insurance agency. No company I represent voluntarily accepts pit bulls. I have had pit bull owners try and explain to me that American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Bull Terriers are not Pit Bulls (they are). I have heard every iteration of “Terrier” that’s not a pit bull that turns out to be one. Not everyone knows what a West Higland White Terrier is (I sure as shit couldn’t picture one right now). If one of my employees doesn’t immediately recognize the breed I’d want them to ask. If you met any of my employees you wouldn’t say they weren’t bright bulbs.

 

[Buck F]

If YOU aren't asking for additional coverage (you have a separate policy) and you are aware of the policy limitations, giving a list to your insurance company is giving more info than they need! I can only imagine that it goes into a massive database and perhaps shared with "insurance sharing databases" (I'm thinking something like the Medical Information Bureau). Do they ask for make/model/S/N of every HD TV, stereo equipment, etc. that you own?

I know that AMICA used to be very picky about who they took and refused many they deemed a "risk", so I'd be very suspicious of lots of questions about guns.

I've had a separate policy for my guns for many years and none of them wanted S/Ns and only one wanted a list of make/model . . . all the others are happy to just be given an aggregate $$ figure (as long as none are worth >$5K each).

You’re being a bit paranoid Len. Insurance companies schedule valuables because there are limitations for things like jewelry, firearms, China, silverware, antiques, collectibles, musical instruments, etc. If agents don’t ask then we get dragged into an Errors & Omissions claim if someone has $50k work of jewelry stolen and they only have $1,500 in coverage. There’s no central insurance database anywhere that tracks what people schedule on their policies be it jewelry, firearms or anything else. The MIB has zero to do w homeowners insurance, it’s medical info that life insurers use for legitimate underwriting and has zero to do w gun ownership. There’s no limitation on the homeowners policy for TVs so there’s no reason to schedule (list) them. No company requires serial numbers for guns, just make, model and value if you choose to buy extra coverag for them.

 

[Buck F]

I wasn't sure whether to post this story in this thread or the other thread on AMica in Off Topic (Unhappy with Amica insurance) but I think the title of this thread, "Amica Insurance is Anti Gun" is more appropriate. Here's what happened to me.

I've had Amica for my auto policy for a few years and been happy with them especially their claims service. A year or so ago I switched my homeowners insurance over to Amica because I hated Progressive and it (switching to Amica) was a non issue. So I'm getting ready to move in a couple weeks and my mortgage broker needed an insurance binder on the new place for closing, so I called Amica 8 days ago on the 22nd, told them I was happy with them and wanted to continue using them to insure my new house. So I spent about 10 minutes with them on the phone answering questions. Underground tank? No, Pool? No. Yada yada. Then they asked me about firearms. I told them that I was a licensed owner of handguns, rifles and shotguns, and they asked me to email them a list of make and model numbers. I also emailed them a copy of my house inspection report. Here's where it gets bizzarre. They asked me how I store my guns and I replied that I comply with Massachusetts law and store all my firearms in a safe. I was then asked if any of the guns are loaded, or if the ammunition is stored separately. I responded truthfully and stated that some of the handguns are stored loaded, and I explained that if one wishes to use a handgun for self defense that it should be loaded. She said she had to run this by her underwriter. I got a call again two days ago saying they might not be able to write my homeowner's policy if I keep a loaded handgun in the house, even if it is stored in a safe. I told her that I wasn't going to be dishonest and that I would continue to store loaded handguns in a safe just like I always have. I got a call back today, 8 days later, saying that they can't insure me because I keep a loaded handgun in my house. They acknowledge it is inside a safe but because it is loaded they will not insure me.

Un-Freaking-Believable.

So now, because they dragged their feet for eight days, I had to push my closing back a week because I don't have an insurance binder in time. And I have to start this process all over with another insurer. I'm pissed off about this. Who the eff do they think they are?

So I'm going to send the customer service rep an email and ask her to put my denial of coverage in writing, because I want all the world to see it. I'll start with the higher ups within their home insurance business unit. It'll go to their CEO, who may or may not read it. I'll post this story on every gun board out there because we responsible gun owners shouldn't tolerate crap like this, and the only way to send a message is to drop Amica like a used rubber and give our business to one of their competitors.

I re-read this entire thread. I assume if you've been a happy customer of Amica that they have no reason to ask you about how you store your firearms because you have an existing business relationship or maybe you are grandfathered. But to those of you who say this must be BS and Amica doesn't discriminate against gun owners you are wrong, because I can guarantee this is where Amica and their underwriters stand on this issue as of today.

I’d love to see that denial of coverage letter, please post it. I am flabbergasted that they asked those questions and denied coverage. I own an agency and have never heard of such a thing.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Viking Kitten, a former NES'r who I personally know was denied coverage due to owning guns when she bought a house some years ago. You are resurrecting old posts. In 1979 AMICA didn't ask me either. About 1992 one of their agents made a comment to me that they wouldn't insure gun owners, but again didn't ask me. They denied me umbrella coverage at the time due to my volunteer activities in town government however. Due to lack of customer service, I dumped them in 2015 and went to MetLife. They begged me to come back to AMICA in 2016 and I said no thank you. I explained to them my multi-year issue with them that they never resolved (per Registrar of MV personal Email the request was to cancel my auto many months prior to reg renewal and re-write it so I didn't need to get the insurance stamp every reg renewal).

I don't really trust any insurance company and don't prefer to donate excess personal info to their database. I've had independent gun insurance for very many years, so they have no need to know.

 

[Toast]

Sure, it's a zombie thread, but WTH, I'll add a bit more info.

In my case, my homeowner's policy only covers firearms up to $1500 for theft. They will cover up to policy limits for loss of firearms in the event of fire or similar loss. If I want coverage past $1500 for theft, they would want the items to be items scheduled individually. In my situation, I have separate coverage on the firearms for theft with a different insurer.

 

[Bob P]

Sure, it's a zombie thread, but WTH, I'll add a bit more info.

In my case, my homeowner's policy only covers firearms up to $1500 for theft. They will cover up to policy limits for loss of firearms in the event of fire or similar loss. If I want coverage past $1500 for theft, they would want the items to be items scheduled individually. In my situation, I have separate coverage on the firearms for theft with a different insurer.

They do this for high-value items likely to be stolen. Guns, art, cash, jewelry, coin and stamp collections, and furs. Policies limit the total payout for loss by theft on the above items. You can purchase higher limits through a schedule.

You may indeed be asked questions re storage of your guns. They’re looking at potential accidents - like having to defend you because little Johnny next door got your gun as it wasn’t secured and shot little Timmy. It’s the same reason they want a fence around your pool and won’t insure you if you have a trampoline or a dog that’s on the biter list.

I have never heard of mag restrictions as part of a questionnaire and I’ve been in insurance since 1985 and have worked with several companies. I’m not saying the poster is embellishing nor am I saying it’s impossible someone asked about mag limits. I’m just saying that I’ve never heard of it and I’m usually pretty up on industry trends (as it’s my job to be).

 

[ccm75]

I have had Amica for over 25 years. Home, auto, boat, umbrella.
I recently increased my umbrella coverage and for the first time ever (they've never asked a question at renewal) they asked about dogs, trampolines, woodstove and guns.
The firearms question asked for description of guns owned, long vs. hand, types of guns, how stored, who had access and storage of ammo.

My reply was, "Yes. I own firearms and I comply with all state and federal laws."
Never heard another word about it and my coverage increase was approved............

 

[dhuze]

I have Amica, they asked if I had firearms. I said yes, I still have Amica.

 

[VTHunter]

... Insurance companies schedule valuables because there are limitations for things like jewelry, firearms, China, silverware, antiques, collectibles, musical instruments, etc. ...No company requires serial numbers for guns, just make, model and value if you choose to buy extra coverag for them.

1. I had AMICA for 25+ years for Home, Auto, Life and Umbrella. They asked the standard firearm questions, but not to the degree that some state here. They only asked me if there were guns in the home and whether they were locked up separately from the ammo. I mentioned the safe. They didn't pry any further and I was always renewed without issue. I left for other 'service related' issues. Not to mention they are more expensive than other carriers (YMMV).

2. In reference to the 'buckfarack' quote, I am curious about the schedule for insuring firearms. I inquired about this insurance with the new insurance company. They simply asked me to provide a schedule, which made me uncomfortable because I am not familiar with the process and don't like to provide more information than absolutely necessary. Is there a standard form for MA, and are there any concerns with providing this info? Who validates the valuation for each item?

Thanks

 

[robjax]

A friend of mine was applying for car and homeowner's insurance. All was going fine and the policy was ready to be issued when the lady asked if he had any guns. Being an honest person he answered yes I have guns. I am licensed to own firearms. She asked if he carried. He said he did. She said "that is going to be a problem". He asked why exercising his 2nd amendment right is a problem. She told him the company will not cover any homes with guns in them.

He was pissed.

if they won't cover homes with guns in them then why ask if he carried?

Also, if all insurance companies won't cover houses with guns once enough home invaders get shot or killed and can't collect any money the state will mandate that all insurance companies covers all houses regardless of guns...if they can't coddle a criminal the state will get pissed.

 

[kalash]

I straight up asked my Liberty agent if they cover guns and he shrugged and said that they just consider them personal property and they'd be covered the same way as anything else. Awesome.

 

[Buck F]

1. I had AMICA for 25+ years for Home, Auto, Life and Umbrella. They asked the standard firearm questions, but not to the degree that some state here. They only asked me if there were guns in the home and whether they were locked up separately from the ammo. I mentioned the safe. They didn't pry any further and I was always renewed without issue. I left for other 'service related' issues. Not to mention they are more expensive than other carriers (YMMV).

2. In reference to the 'buckfarack' quote, I am curious about the schedule for insuring firearms. I inquired about this insurance with the new insurance company. They simply asked me to provide a schedule, which made me uncomfortable because I am not familiar with the process and don't like to provide more information than absolutely necessary. Is there a standard form for MA, and are there any concerns with providing this info? Who validates the valuation for each item?

Thanks

No, there isn’t a standard form for MA. What they’re looking for is a list of guns by make and model and prices. If you have a bunch of current guns, a Glock 17 Gen4, a Smith 686, things that can be readily replaced at available market prices that should be the end of it. If guns have a particular collectible value you’ll probably need to show appraisals or receipts. It’s no different that scheduling jewelry, camera equipment or antiques & collectibles. It’s not an overly involved process. And you only have to do it if you want coverag for those items by theft. Standard homeowners policies usually limit theft of firearms to $1,500 after deductible. Many policies have enhancement endorsements that increase that value (among other things) to $3k, $5k, some even go as high as $10k. No one is keeping a database on anyone’s firearms nor are they reporting it anywhere.

 

[Buck F]

I straight up asked my Liberty agent if they cover guns and he shrugged and said that they just consider them personal property and they'd be covered the same way as anything else. Awesome.

I represent Safeco, which is part of Liberty Mutual and uses the same policy forms and general underwriting guidelines as LM. I promise you there’s a limit on loss by theft of firearms on Liberty’s homeowners policies. If you have fire damage, water, etc. that’s a different story, that’s covered similar to the rest of your contents. If the guns have antique or collectible value then you need to schedule them with appraisals just like any other antique or collectible item you have. Often when you’re dealing w Liberty you’re dealing w an inexperienced call center operator who doesn’t have all the info.

 

[Bob P]

I represent Safeco, which is part of Liberty Mutual and uses the same policy forms and general underwriting guidelines as LM. I promise you there’s a limit on loss by theft of firearms on Liberty’s homeowners policies. If you have fire damage, water, etc. that’s a different story, that’s covered similar to the rest of your contents. If the guns have antique or collectible value then you need to schedule them with appraisals just like any other antique or collectible item you have. Often when you’re dealing w Liberty you’re dealing w an inexperienced call center operator who doesn’t have all the info.

I work for Liberty. He’s correct. You’ve only got $2500 for theft of firearms without a schedule.

 

[JayMcB]

Lost our Cape House coverae after a loss last January Called Amica, but they won't insure a second house unless you insure your primary with them. PITA. Thy want to do an inspection of every room, basement, furnace, attic, and take pictures. F*ck that noise. Then they asked if I had firearms. I replied affirmatively. Then they asked how many.

I said 'rifles, shotguns, or handguns?'.

She said in total.

I said I had a collection, including old military firearms.

She again asked how many.

I said 'dozens'.

Silence.

Declined.

 

[kalash]

Liberty agent did tell me there's a limit but not $2500 wtf

 

[durask]

Answer is always no, it's no one's business to know !!

My understanding that if there is a claim against your policy (for any reason) and they find out you own firearms, they can cancel your policy and leave you hanging.

 

[durask]

IMHO, these policies are peddled by activist antis in the upper management and sold to the rest of the company as "oh, think of the horrible liability".

 

[durask]

IMHO, these are the kind of stories NRA TV should be doing, not smashing TVs with hammers.

 

[Bob P]

Liberty agent did tell me there's a limit but not $2500 wtf

Yah that’s standard language in the ISO HO form. 99% of carriers use it. Similar limits on cash, jewelry and furs.