Amica Insurance Is Anti Gun

I've been insured with AMICA for both auto and home (one in Massachusetts, the other in NY) for over 20 years. I've never been asked a single question about guns. My policy lists specific limits for guns, jewelry and other high-end items, but if I wanted more, they'd sell it to me. I keep hearing this claim come up every now and then. It's either got to be a single agent expressing his or her own neuroses or simply another person who read a similar claim on the net and decided it would be cool to personalize it. Pure crap wither way.

Ken
 
KMaurer said:
I've been insured with AMICA for both auto and home (one in Massachusetts, the other in NY) for over 20 years. I've never been asked a single question about guns. My policy lists specific limits for guns, jewelry and other high-end items, but if I wanted more, they'd sell it to me. I keep hearing this claim come up every now and then. It's either got to be a single agent expressing his or her own neuroses or simply another person who read a similar claim on the net and decided it would be cool to personalize it. Pure crap wither way.

Ken
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I would have said the same thing up until a few days ago or so. I'd be happy to meet you in person to tell you, I'm not just someone who repeats things I heard on the internet. I would also hope my previous posts on this board don't portray me as someone who just repeats internet FUD like that.

So, that narrows it down to "agent neuroses". While it's completely possible that's the case, most big corporations tell their phone staff to keep their own, personal agendas out of conversations with customers.

In any event, I still haven't heard back from Amica regarding the phone conversation I had with them, but the questions ask didn't bode well for their current policies. I plan on calling them next week to make sure the policy changes are all set. I'll report back on the outcome of that conversation.
 
PaulD said:
I would have said the same thing up until a few days ago or so. I'd be happy to meet you in person to tell you, I'm not just someone who repeats things I heard on the internet. I would also hope my previous posts on this board don't portray me as someone who just repeats internet FUD like that.

So, that narrows it down to "agent neuroses". While it's completely possible that's the case, most big corporations tell their phone staff to keep their own, personal agendas out of conversations with customers.

In any event, I still haven't heard back from Amica regarding the phone conversation I had with them, but the questions ask didn't bode well for their current policies. I plan on calling them next week to make sure the policy changes are all set. I'll report back on the outcome of that conversation.
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To report back on this, Amica followed up and asked if I'm properly licensed (yes) and that my guns are registered (yes, unfortunately). Given those answers they were all set. My read of this is that Amica is not, to first order, anti gun. Rather, they are playing CYA given MA gun laws.

I'm not exactly happy with them in this regard, but I understand a bit too well how corporations can work and I'm not particularly surprised an insurance company is acting this way.
 
PaulD said:
To report back on this, Amica followed up and asked if I'm properly licensed (yes) and that my guns are registered (yes, unfortunately). Given those answers they were all set. My read of this is that Amica is not, to first order, anti gun. Rather, they are playing CYA given MA gun laws.

I'm not exactly happy with them in this regard, but I understand a bit too well how corporations can work and I'm not particularly surprised an insurance company is acting this way.
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The registered question is ignorance on their part. Not all guns have to be registered in MA. If you moved here from another state with your guns you wouldn't have had to file FA-10's.
 
exodious said:
The registered question is ignorance on their part. Not all guns have to be registered in MA. If you moved here from another state with your guns you wouldn't have had to file FA-10's.
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Yes, you're right. However, I wouldn't expect them to get that subtly of MA gun law. Hell, I wouldn't expect most DAs this state to get that. That's a big part of the problem here is how incomprehensible, vague and often ad-hoc the laws are in this state.
 
i have to admit, i enjoying reading this thread, making the crappy day at work, less crappy and 100% making me less productive, bravo gentlemen, bravo!
 
I wasn't sure whether to post this story in this thread or the other thread on AMica in Off Topic (http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/57303-Unhappy-with-Amica-insurance) but I think the title of this thread, "Amica Insurance is Anti Gun" is more appropriate. Here's what happened to me.

I've had Amica for my auto policy for a few years and been happy with them especially their claims service. A year or so ago I switched my homeowners insurance over to Amica because I hated Progressive and it (switching to Amica) was a non issue. So I'm getting ready to move in a couple weeks and my mortgage broker needed an insurance binder on the new place for closing, so I called Amica 8 days ago on the 22nd, told them I was happy with them and wanted to continue using them to insure my new house. So I spent about 10 minutes with them on the phone answering questions. Underground tank? No, Pool? No. Yada yada. Then they asked me about firearms. I told them that I was a licensed owner of handguns, rifles and shotguns, and they asked me to email them a list of make and model numbers. I also emailed them a copy of my house inspection report. Here's where it gets bizzarre. They asked me how I store my guns and I replied that I comply with Massachusetts law and store all my firearms in a safe. I was then asked if any of the guns are loaded, or if the ammunition is stored separately. I responded truthfully and stated that some of the handguns are stored loaded, and I explained that if one wishes to use a handgun for self defense that it should be loaded. She said she had to run this by her underwriter. I got a call again two days ago saying they might not be able to write my homeowner's policy if I keep a loaded handgun in the house, even if it is stored in a safe. I told her that I wasn't going to be dishonest and that I would continue to store loaded handguns in a safe just like I always have. I got a call back today, 8 days later, saying that they can't insure me because I keep a loaded handgun in my house. They acknowledge it is inside a safe but because it is loaded they will not insure me.

Un-Freaking-Believable.

So now, because they dragged their feet for eight days, I had to push my closing back a week because I don't have an insurance binder in time. And I have to start this process all over with another insurer. I'm pissed off about this. Who the eff do they think they are?

So I'm going to send the customer service rep an email and ask her to put my denial of coverage in writing, because I want all the world to see it. I'll start with the higher ups within their home insurance business unit. It'll go to their CEO, who may or may not read it. I'll post this story on every gun board out there because we responsible gun owners shouldn't tolerate crap like this, and the only way to send a message is to drop Amica like a used rubber and give our business to one of their competitors.

I re-read this entire thread. I assume if you've been a happy customer of Amica that they have no reason to ask you about how you store your firearms because you have an existing business relationship or maybe you are grandfathered. But to those of you who say this must be BS and Amica doesn't discriminate against gun owners you are wrong, because I can guarantee this is where Amica and their underwriters stand on this issue as of today.
 
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Liberty Mutual insures me and they are fully aware I have a pitbull and I own and carry firearms.


The only reason they know of the firearms is because my agent came out to my home for my life insurance policy and saw my Protected by stag arms sticker on my door with a picture of an AR. She said her fiance also enjoyed shooting and owned guns.
 
My wife is my insurance agent, and I'm fairly certain it's with Commerce.

Based here in Webster, MA, although they got bought, and are now a subsidiary of an international company Mapfre (prounounced "Moffree").

I'd have to ask my wife, but I am pretty sure they did not ask anything about guns, unless you're asking for a specific rider on a collection. YMMV
 
Marcus' story fits what I had been told about AMICA many years ago.

I suspect that they didn't ask questions like this many years ago, but now ask all sorts of "none of their business questions" and are risk-adverse. Owning firearms is a "risk" to them.

Sorry about the BS, not sure how I would have dealt with it, but I certainly would never give any insurance company a list of my guns unless I was asking for them to cover them for theft, and I would never do that as long as there are other options (dedicated separate coverage).
 
I was just gonna change my auto insurance over to Amica and get a renters policy. So much for that idea. What's the use of having a handgun at home for defensive purposes if its not loaded? Shame cause they're so much cheaper than who I have now. Guess I'll just have to ask my present insurer about renters insurance and hope gun ownership isn't an issue.
 
Marcus in the Darkus said:
I wasn't sure whether to post this story in this thread or the other thread on AMica in Off Topic (http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/57303-Unhappy-with-Amica-insurance) but I think the title of this thread, "Amica Insurance is Anti Gun" is more appropriate. Here's what happened to me.

I've had Amica for my auto policy for a few years and been happy with them especially their claims service. A year or so ago I switched my homeowners insurance over to Amica because I hated Progressive and it (switching to Amica) was a non issue. So I'm getting ready to move in a couple weeks and my mortgage broker needed an insurance binder on the new place for closing, so I called Amica 8 days ago on the 22nd, told them I was happy with them and wanted to continue using them to insure my new house. So I spent about 10 minutes with them on the phone answering questions. Underground tank? No, Pool? No. Yada yada. Then they asked me about firearms. I told them that I was a licensed owner of handguns, rifles and shotguns, and they asked me to email them a list of make and model numbers. I also emailed them a copy of my house inspection report. Here's where it gets bizzarre. They asked me how I store my guns and I replied that I comply with Massachusetts law and store all my firearms in a safe. I was then asked if any of the guns are loaded, or if the ammunition is stored separately. I responded truthfully and stated that some of the handguns are stored loaded, and I explained that if one wishes to use a handgun for self defense that it should be loaded. She said she had to run this by her underwriter. I got a call again two days ago saying they might not be able to write my homeowner's policy if I keep a loaded handgun in the house, even if it is stored in a safe. I told her that I wasn't going to be dishonest and that I would continue to store loaded handguns in a safe just like I always have. I got a call back today, 8 days later, saying that they can't insure me because I keep a loaded handgun in my house. They acknowledge it is inside a safe but because it is loaded they will not insure me.

Un-Freaking-Believable.

So now, because they dragged their feet for eight days, I had to push my closing back a week because I don't have an insurance binder in time. And I have to start this process all over with another insurer. I'm pissed off about this. Who the eff do they think they are?

So I'm going to send the customer service rep an email and ask her to put my denial of coverage in writing, because I want all the world to see it. I'll start with the higher ups within their home insurance business unit. It'll go to their CEO, who may or may not read it. I'll post this story on every gun board out there because we responsible gun owners shouldn't tolerate crap like this, and the only way to send a message is to drop Amica like a used rubber and give our business to one of their competitors.

I re-read this entire thread. I assume if you've been a happy customer of Amica that they have no reason to ask you about how you store your firearms because you have an existing business relationship or maybe you are grandfathered. But to those of you who say this must be BS and Amica doesn't discriminate against gun owners you are wrong, because I can guarantee this is where Amica and their underwriters stand on this issue as of today.
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Wow, thanks for sharing this story. I remember all of the twists and turns this thread had taken, so it's great to have something current added. I, like Len said, would never give anyone a list of my firearms unless they wanted it for the sole purpose of providing coverage on them. In that case, just as with giving the serial number of your car to an auto insurer, it makes sense. This is just another way for the moonbats to push their agenda to disarm the population, especially if those moonbats happen to have high level positions in large corporations like insurance. As these companies become more and more regulated by .gov, it will be even easier to push their agenda because you will be breaking the law by not having coverage, and if you lie on the policy, and it is later discovered, say after a fire, that you did in fact have guns in the house, you have given them a perfect exclusion from having to pay out on the claim due to fraud. I suspect that it will happen even sooner in the health insurance realm. Not trying to sound like my tin foil is too tight, but I don't like the look of where this seems to be heading.
 
Terminator03 said:
Wow, thanks for sharing this story. I remember all of the twists and turns this thread had taken, so it's great to have something current added. I, like Len said, would never give anyone a list of my firearms unless they wanted it for the sole purpose of providing coverage on them. In that case, just as with giving the serial number of your car to an auto insurer, it makes sense. This is just another way for the moonbats to push their agenda to disarm the population, especially if those moonbats happen to have high level positions in large corporations like insurance. As these companies become more and more regulated by .gov, it will be even easier to push their agenda because you will be breaking the law by not having coverage, and if you lie on the policy, and it is later discovered, say after a fire, that you did in fact have guns in the house, you have given them a perfect exclusion from having to pay out on the claim due to fraud. I suspect that it will happen even sooner in the health insurance realm. Not trying to sound like my tin foil is too tight, but I don't like the look of where this seems to be heading.
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More "backdoor" gun control/banning. [thinking]
 
OK, major update on my situation.

Last night I composed the following email which I sent to the person I was dealing with at Amica:

After I waited for 8 days for Amica to respond to my initial insurance inquiry of August 22, copied below, you called me today and told me that Amica could not provide me with homeowner's insurance because I disclosed to you that I keep loaded handguns in my house. Even after I explained to you that all firearms are stored in a locked safe in accordance with Massachusetts law, you insisted that Amica would not issue homeowner's insurance to me. I can understand increased premiums or even a reluctance to provide coverage for those who do not properly store loaded firearms, but to insist that I keep my handgun, which is intended for self defense, both unloaded and in a locked safe shows a complete lack of common sense.

I'm upset about this for several reasons, including the fact that your 8-day delay and negative response has caused me to incur additional costs because I had to postpone my closing until I can get a binder from a company that actually wants my business.

I respectfully ask you to do the following:

1) Please confirm in writing by email reply that Amica is denying me coverage. If this is Amica's policy it should be in writing and out in the open. If I receive no reply I will understand that to be an implicit confirmation of denial due to the reasons described above.

2) Please forward this email to your immediate supervisor. I also suggest you forward it to that person's supervisor as well. If you don't, I will. I intend to go right up Amica's chain of command on this until someone either explains to me, in writing, that this was a terrible misunderstanding or that this is, in fact Amica's policy regarding loaded handguns and denial of homeowner's insurance coverage.

3) I will wait for a response from you or someone else at Amica for a period of eight days before I publish this story on every internet site I can think of with the recommendation that people drop Amica as their insurance carrier if they dislike doing business with companies that intrude on their privacy, assume that all law abiding gun owners are irresponsible, and promote fear and mistrust of firearms and of those who own them. There are tens of millions of homes in the US that have firearms, and I will make as many of them as I possibly can aware of Amica's ridiculous, hopolophobic and discriminatory business practices toward lawful gun owners.

I look forward to your response.
Click to expand...

This morning I got an email indicating that she had forwarded my email as requested, then about an hour later I got a call from her supervisor. She told me she had gone to several people within Amica about this and could find no reason why Amica should deny me coverage. She went back to the phone logs and listened to me describe how I keep all my firearms locked up in a safe in accordance with Massachusetts law. She told me that she was really sorry, and that the cause of this problem must have been some sort of miscommunication between the customer service rep I spoke with and the underwriting team. She repeated that it is not Amica's policy to require gun owners to store their firearms both unloaded and in a safe. She verbally gave me a quote that I was happy with, and it turned out to be a good deal cheaper than the online quote I just got from Liberty Mutual; LM wanted $969/year for $235k of dwelling coverage while Amica wanted $714 for $265k of dwelling replacement coverage; both with the same $1k deductible.

So I think the email was effective in at least getting Amica to understand the ludicrous claims that at least some of their customer service reps were saying, and maybe it got some people within their organization to think that a bunch of bad publicity amongst gun owners might not be a great thing. So I'm going to stick with Amica for both auto and home insurance.
 
Marcus, I'm very glad this worked out for you.

I know that Bob P and myself got into this a while ago and truthfully I wish I knew what the "real story" is on Amica's policy and practice. It's hard to tell if it is a rogue agent's personal agenda or really corporate policy (which can be bent with the proper threats)? I've read numerous stories of woe wrt Amica before on national forums, I've heard it before from others in MA, etc.
 
Marcus in the Darkus said:
OK, major update on my situation.

Last night I composed the following email which I sent to the person I was dealing with at Amica:



This morning I got an email indicating that she had forwarded my email as requested, then about an hour later I got a call from her supervisor. She told me she had gone to several people within Amica about this and could find no reason why Amica should deny me coverage. She went back to the phone logs and listened to me describe how I keep all my firearms locked up in a safe in accordance with Massachusetts law. She told me that she was really sorry, and that the cause of this problem must have been some sort of miscommunication between the customer service rep I spoke with and the underwriting team. She repeated that it is not Amica's policy to require gun owners to store their firearms both unloaded and in a safe. She verbally gave me a quote that I was happy with, and it turned out to be a good deal cheaper than the online quote I just got from Liberty Mutual; LM wanted $969/year for $235k of dwelling coverage while Amica wanted $714 for $265k of dwelling replacement coverage; both with the same $1k deductible.

So I think the email was effective in at least getting Amica to understand the ludicrous claims that at least some of their customer service reps were saying, and maybe it got some people within their organization to think that a bunch of bad publicity amongst gun owners might not be a great thing. So I'm going to stick with Amica for both auto and home insurance.
Click to expand...

Your email was perfect, and I'm glad it yielded positive results. You portrayed yourself, and gun owners in general, in a very positive light to a company with what I understand to be a less than favorable view on gun owners. +1
 
Amica has been providing home and auto insurance in NH far longer than MA. I've had them for both and have no complaints. They have one of the highest customer approval ratings. Given the fact that NH has many gun owners I would think this would have been brought to light long ago. My bet is it's anti customer reps who BS to push their own agenda. Keep in mind NH and MA have different offices. I've called the 800 number from my work in MA and was connected to the MA office. I had to be transferred to the NH office. To my knowledge they only ask about guns if you specifically wish for them to be covered in the event of a loss. If something happens on your property your insurer can't just back out claiming you didn't inform them of X. They will cover you. Granted they may cancel your policy immediately afterwards, but you will still be covered. Perfect example would be drunk drivers. If someone gets boozed up and plows into another person their insurance will cover the accident despite that person agreed to only drive sober.
 
Quick related question (I think) -- I'm not sure my ins. co knows I have firearms. Do I need to know tell them and itemize them in order to ensure some form of coverage against theft? If so, do I have to continually update them when I buy/sell?
 
Shameless plug here. I run an insurance agency in MA and would be happy to quote your auto or homeowners insurance. None of the companies we write for ask about firearms, though there is a limit to what would be covered on the policy. Depending on endorsements attached to the policy, $1000-$3000 is included (not much i know) and others should be scheduled if you want coverage. There are other companies out there that specialize in firearms insurance that could provide more coverage if desired and if you dont want to schedule them on your homeowners insurance.
 

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