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Perhaps the pro-gun side is exaggerating....

I have a friend who was Military L.E. for most of his career .
He did multi agency training and he himself said the ATF guys were an embarrassment to anyone in law enforcement.
 
I remember being at FLETC Glynco, GA. for The Maritime Operations course. Every one in the various classes for "In Service Training" was in the two tone blue, Not the ATF they had their own area of the Mess Hall and were wearing T shirts that said ATF Police across the back. Oh, they were some special. Total Egotistical A$$HOLES!!!
 
FisherTech said:
I remember being at FLETC Glynco, GA. for The Maritime Operations course. Every one in the various classes for "In Service Training" was in the two tone blue, Not the ATF they had their own area of the Mess Hall and were wearing T shirts that said ATF Police across the back. Oh, they were some special. Total Egotistical A$$HOLES!!!
Click to expand...
What got him was they were bragging about how they set people up like it was a cool thing to do and everyone else was supposed to be impressed .
 
Those Bastards go beyond allowing someone to willing do wrong and go to complete entrapment. Randy Weaver was a textbook example of entrapment.
The simple definition of entrapment is " To put a criminal thought in an innocent mind".
 
Introduction to social engineering 101

Step 1: post a completely baseless and unprovable lie that is the opposite of what's happening
rogersmithiii said:
I have a friend who works part time at a pretty big gun shop in the area.
Click to expand...

Step 2: get someone to post a statement that equates a lie from Step 1 to facts, thus making them appear to have the same value
2/1Marine said:
I'm sure there is propaganda on both sides.
Click to expand...

Step 3: watch everyone make tangential statements that assume the lie from Step 1 is as real as the reality.


What a bunch of lemmings....
 
I’ve always found the ATF to be the easiest government agency to deal with. But they know everything about me and how dumb I am considering how much paperwork I filled out wrong.

And when we crashed the original e-file system because it auto populated other peoples wrong answers.

Then you’re told him you’re crossing state lines that pretty much is un red flag…

Likely, I’ve dealt with a lot of Undercovers as well and I wouldn’t cooperate with their frame job
 
rogersmithiii said:
I have a friend who works part time at a pretty big gun shop in the area.

He was saying that the ATF showed up to do an inspection. They apparently found some paperwork issues that had to be cleaned up. The shop did not get shut down, and the ATF guys were polite and professional. According to the pro-gun press, the ATF under pressure from Ice Cream Joe and his elves are shutting down every gun shop who even fails to dot an I or cross a T. As of today, the shop is still open, and selling iron.

Maybe those shut down shops were really doing questionable stuff, or were really negligent. Or maybe something else other than some trivial paperwork issues were going on. Who knows?

Maybe there's propaganda on both sides.
Click to expand...

OMG, that's blasphemous!! Lol
 
drgrant said:
This. It's like saying the cops are great when you got pulled over doing 130 and the cop you got was cool and was more impressed than pissed off because you happened to get a good guy that day...

Meanwhile a fair amount of the people he works with..... are often at varying levels on the flaming douchebag scale....
Click to expand...
I got bagged for 105 in a 30 and improper passing with no ticket and a 30 minute roadside chat about cars (1989 Thunderbird SC 5 speed)
God was looking out for me that day and the cop had never seen a Super Coupe but knew the sound of a roots blower...[banana]

All that proved is that cops are a reflection of society - not a perfect one but still a reflection of the good, bad and indifferent.
Unfortunately there seems to be more bad than good out there today.
 
40 Creedmoor fan said:
Introduction to social engineering 101

Step 1: post a completely baseless and unprovable lie that is the opposite of what's happening


Step 2: get someone to post a statement that equates a lie from Step 1 to facts, thus making them appear to have the same value


Step 3: watch everyone make tangential statements that assume the lie from Step 1 is as real as the reality.


What a bunch of lemmings....
Click to expand...
What lie exactly did I equate as fact? and who got me to post anything? All I posted about was the propaganda aspect of the op's post. Are you saying that you don't believe both sides utilize propaganda to further their objectives?
 
MGnoob said:
I’ve always found the ATF to be the easiest government agency to deal with. But they know everything about me and how dumb I am considering how much paperwork I filled out wrong.

And when we crashed the original e-file system because it auto populated other peoples wrong answers.

Then you’re told him you’re crossing state lines that pretty much is un red flag…

Likely, I’ve dealt with a lot of Undercovers as well and I wouldn’t cooperate with their frame job
Click to expand...
We only had one when we had our FFL.
He came in and told us a mutual acquaintance had sent him over and wanted to see about doing some "Off the books " purchases .
Told him to GTFO and told the guy who sent him over to loose our number.
 
pastera said:
I got bagged for 105 in a 30 and improper passing with no ticket and a 30 minute roadside chat about cars (1989 Thunderbird SC 5 speed)
God was looking out for me that day and the cop had never seen a Super Coupe but knew the sound of a roots blower...[banana]

All that proved is that cops are a reflection of society - not a perfect one but still a reflection of the good, bad and indifferent.
Unfortunately there seems to be more bad than good out there today.
Click to expand...
I was going about 135 but he only clocked me at 96. Told me I understand why your passed the first three cars but then you didn’t stop.
“ oh, I see your license was reinstated yesterday”

and what did you lose it for? Speeding

I got caught by the same cop two days in a row the same spot right in front of the barracks going 90 miles an hour.

Now people are always passing me because I drive so slow
 
The decision on whether to initiate license revocation is not made by the inspector on the ground doing the inspection. It is made by his management or the head of the local ATF office.

USC requires that certain intentional actions are taken by license holders to qualify for revocation. The current administration has decided that certain mistakes are inherently intentional actions meant to violate the law and terms of your license. Many of these new mistakes are just that, common and easy to make mistakes.

If any of these newly identified super mistakes occur, the inspectors MUST raise them to their management to decide what the consequences will be. In the past these would be just that, mistakes, and you would document them and your corrective action and that would be the end of it. If they happened on your next inspection, you might get your mistake escalated to the next level. The hierarchy for mistakes is
  • verbal
  • documented
  • warning letter
  • called into ATF office for meeting and warning
  • revocation
Outside of failing to run backgrounds for someone known to be prohibited, it was essentially impossible to jump all the way to revocation previously. Now they often skip all the levels of escalation and go directly to revocation for what used to be considered a simple clerical error.

So one story of one shop where they made clerical errors that are still considered clerical errors, is of ZERO value in the discussion.

They are definitely ramping up their ability to shut down shops. They are definitely in violation of the actual law as written. They are being sued in multiple federal jurisdictions as a result and eventually this should result in their new methodology getting shot down. But that is the way of the new ATF: over reach intentionally and do as much damage as you can before the courts reign you in.
 
rogersmithiii said:
I have a friend who works part time at a pretty big gun shop in the area.

He was saying that the ATF showed up to do an inspection. They apparently found some paperwork issues that had to be cleaned up. The shop did not get shut down, and the ATF guys were polite and professional. According to the pro-gun press, the ATF under pressure from Ice Cream Joe and his elves are shutting down every gun shop who even fails to dot an I or cross a T. As of today, the shop is still open, and selling iron.

Maybe those shut down shops were really doing questionable stuff, or were really negligent. Or maybe something else other than some trivial paperwork issues were going on. Who knows?

Maybe there's propaganda on both sides.
Click to expand...
I want negative karma back
 
2/1Marine said:
What lie exactly did I equate as fact? and who got me to post anything? All I posted about was the propaganda aspect of the op's post. Are you saying that you don't believe both sides utilize propaganda to further their objectives?
Click to expand...
No, the fact that you equate anti-American and dicatatorial attitudes of anti-gunners and the ATF with the side that is pro-2A, pro-freedom, and pro-American.
No, there no moral equivalence between the two sides. Your post just accepted the premise that the were and you repeated it again.
 
CrackPot said:
The decision on whether to initiate license revocation is not made by the inspector on the ground doing the inspection. It is made by his management or the head of the local ATF office.

USC requires that certain intentional actions are taken by license holders to qualify for revocation. The current administration has decided that certain mistakes are inherently intentional actions meant to violate the law and terms of your license. Many of these new mistakes are just that, common and easy to make mistakes.

If any of these newly identified super mistakes occur, the inspectors MUST raise them to their management to decide what the consequences will be. In the past these would be just that, mistakes, and you would document them and your corrective action and that would be the end of it. If they happened on your next inspection, you might get your mistake escalated to the next level. The hierarchy for mistakes is
  • verbal
  • documented
  • warning letter
  • called into ATF office for meeting and warning
  • revocation
Outside of failing to run backgrounds for someone known to be prohibited, it was essentially impossible to jump all the way to revocation previously. Now they often skip all the levels of escalation and go directly to revocation for what used to be considered a simple clerical error.

So one story of one shop where they made clerical errors that are still considered clerical errors, is of ZERO value in the discussion.

They are definitely ramping up their ability to shut down shops. They are definitely in violation of the actual law as written. They are being sued in multiple federal jurisdictions as a result and eventually this should result in their new methodology getting shot down. But that is the way of the new ATF: over reach intentionally and do as much damage as you can before the courts reign you in.
Click to expand...
Sounds like what Democrats normally do.
 
40 Creedmoor fan said:
No, the fact that you equate anti-American and dicatatorial attitudes of anti-gunners and the ATF with the side that is pro-2A, pro-freedom, and pro-American.
No, there no moral equivalence between the two sides. Your post just accepted the premise that the were and you repeated it again.
Click to expand...
Sure thing buddy, whatever you say.
 
Dennis in MA said:
Everyone assumes the worst on their opponent. Nature of hte beast. How often have you seen a douchebag cop video on YT. Ever interact with a cop? Ever find he's a d-bag? I've yet to encounter one.

I would say your rank and file ATF worker is just that. They have no political agenda. Just doing their job.

I did get a line Nazi at Penn Station on Tuesday. Guy MADE everyone walking triple the distance to go down to the Acela because that's how HE wanted it. Berated people for moving hte MOVABLE ropes. LOL. D-bags everywhere. He was the only douche I bumped into in all of NYC.
Click to expand...
lol.

I interact with cops more than your average bear due to my job. At best it’s 50/50 and that ratio is only getting worse. Cambridge specifically takes the cake. The stuff I witnessed from some officers there was mind boggling.

As for the ATF they can f*** right off. Yes they are the enemy.
 

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