Amazing video of cop getting shot on Front Sight website

[MasterShinken]

Yes, advertising for training that will ultimately save the lives of those who take it.......meaning many many cops and others who carry for their own protection. Try to get over the emotion of it and look at it with a sense of practicality and reality. Its as much a part of the training as everything else.

I have to agree with this. I've shown that video to people in which it was a wake up call for them. it was horrible what happened to the guy, but ultimatly some things in this world are horrible. A big thing i've noticed as a self defense instructor, that it is a constant challange in getting people to take your training seriously. not because your techniques are inaffective, but more because they cant fathom that something as ruthless and savage as some of these attacks are. I find videos like this, although hard to stomach, a good teaching aid, aswell as a good way to wake people up to how f'ed up reality can be.

Is it in bad taste, probably, but it is real and connects with people on a emotional level.

We all know piazza is a marketeer, and a very good one at that. I however, having taken his training, have to admit that a lot of people will get alot of good out of it. and it is training that can and from what i've found, has saved peoples lives.

 

[Bill Nance]

I have to agree with this. I've shown that video to people in which it was a wake up call for them. it was horrible what happened to the guy, but ultimatly some things in this world are horrible. A big thing i've noticed as a self defense instructor, that it is a constant challange in getting people to take your training seriously. not because your techniques are inaffective, but more because they cant fathom that something as ruthless and savage as some of these attacks are. I find videos like this, although hard to stomach, a good teaching aid, aswell as a good way to wake people up to how f'ed up reality can be.

Is it in bad taste, probably, but it is real and connects with people on a emotional level.

We all know piazza is a marketeer, and a very good one at that. I however, having taken his training, have to admit that a lot of people will get alot of good out of it. and it is training that can and from what i've found, has saved peoples lives.

Read the entire first EIGHT paragraphs of the web-page:

"Every now and then I see a video that wakes me up to how badly law enforcement (and private citizens alike) truly need what Front Sight offers. {bold mine}

I have a tendency to forget that the superior mindset, gun handling, and marksmanship we instill in hundreds of Front Sight students who attend our courses every weekend, is so far ahead of what is being taught across the country.

I only see the stellar results we create with hundreds of students from all walks of life, every weekend we run our courses

It takes a video like the one I am sharing with you this week to wake me up!

This was a tough video for me to watch because I see this officer personally suffer as a direct result of mistakes he made, that could have easily been avoided had he been provided with the proper mindset, gun handling, and marksmanship we routinely provide to every student who attends our courses.

Seeing a video like this tells me we have much work ahead of us in training America.

Please watch this video to see exactly what NOT to do and then see my comments below.
Please forward this e-mail to everyone you know as well."

I'll give an example of ways he could have used this video as a "wakeup call" to encourage training without it being a clear exploitation of a tragedy to shill for his own profit.


EXAMPLE

The horrific video blow is something I want every single law enforcement officer and civilian to see because it's a graphic example of a failure of training that cost a good man his life. It's disturbing, so be warned in advance.

VIDEO CLIP

Here at Front Sight we use this video as a training aid. We teach specific tactics to deal with this and similar situations. This officer's fate doesn't have to be yours.

Regardless of whether you come to us, or any of the other fine training facilities out there, I hope this video encourages you to GET MORE TRAINING NOW.

/END EXAMPLE

After that, I don't care what he says.

The fact that the webpage didn't say anything like that is a clue that FS is interested in money, not safety. And wants you to get trained, but not if it's at another facility.

This isn't Joe Blow home business newcomer. This is a very experienced businessman who knows, or has no excuse NOT to know how to write an advertisement/article. His interest, clearly, is hawking his own business. Fine, but not when you use someone else's graphically recorded tragedy to do so.

There's a line past which people of good moral character will not go to pursue their business interests. IMO and I think many others here, he crossed that line, big time.

 

[Fooped]

I am of mixed opinion on this one. On one hand, periodically seeing something like this, as disturbing as it is, is a "wake-up" call for me. It reminds me of how a situation that you believe is under control can go south VERY quickly. I find value in seeing the video for this purpose.

On the other hand, I FIRMLY believe that Front Sight using this for advertising purposes is slimy, and do not condone it for any reason. This only affirms what I had already understood about Piazza's "organization".

I have the utmost respect for the officer's sacrifice and family, and I watched the video on a PC that did not have speakers attached to it. After reading the comments here, I am thankful that I did not hear the audio of the incident.

All of this is written with the utmost respect for officer, dept and family.

 

[z0mbi]

I guess the missing piece of the puzzle for me was that the guy IS a scumbag. Fair enough.

 

[M1911]

Of course, he could be a money grubbing charleton

That is, perhaps, the most polite way to describe him.

 

[dvc45]

There is no question that the video has shock value that might wake some up to various aspects of self defense that they may not have paid much attention to before.

But there is a huge difference between using such as a training tool during a class, rather than exploiting this tragedy by using it for blatant marketing purposes.

In point of fact this and numerous other vids (such as the Mark Coates shooting) and pics have been used by myself and numerous other instructors for just such training.

However, the use of this or any thing like it as a marketing ploy, and with the insinuation that the officer died because he lacked Piazaza's training is in extremely poor taste to say the least.

 

[Gadsden]

However, the use of this or any thing like it as a marketing ploy, and with the insinuation that the officer died because he lacked Piazaza's training is in extremely poor taste to say the least.

Agreed. Like I said, the guy will never get a penny of my money. Hell, I would not even piss on his mustache if it was on fire.

 

[ItalianBostonian]

Saw this in the academy also. Horrible to watch!

 

[GSG]

One standard should apply to all of us.

This I agree with. Lethal force is lethal force.

And the incident occured in 1998, most departments did not have access to tazers then.

It happened out in the middle of nowhere in Georgia. Keep in mind, there's still police departments here in the US that only issue their officers a firearm, handcuffs and flashlight (no OC, baton, taser, etc.), and that because of department policies and liability concerns, you can't just add your own gear to your belt.

If that man were a family member of mine I would not be happy about it being used in that manner.

The Deputy Dinkheller's son is 11 years old today:

http://www.odmp.org/officer/15034-deputy-kyle-wayne-dinkheller

Deputy Dinkheller's son was born in early September 1998.

That's the age that I really got interested in guns and shooting myself...let's hope that he doesn't browse the Front Sight website, huh?

But rather to show those that wish to get into this field, what can happen if you let someone control your destiney.

That's a great way to put it.

I'm sure if you showed this officer the tape he would have said "I would have shot him long before that" but the reality is when you are put in that situation, most of us have no idea how we would react. Here is a trained professional and his tentative reaction probably cost him his life.

Yup. This link has an interesting first hand description of how a cop reacts to a rifle being pointed at him. Granted, it's a bit more sudden, but still, it reminds you that things can be harder to see from the inside of a situation.

It makes me shudder too...how hard would I pay attention to someone holding up a dime?

Are you saying that as a cop, you would be more likely to be sued for use of force? You are dreaming if you think that is the case. Anyone who simply holds an LTC and uses it to defend themself or family will be pilloried in this state.

Are you serious? Cops get sued constantly for use of force, a whole heck of a lot more than LTC holders do.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

This I agree with. Lethal force is lethal force.



It happened out in the middle of nowhere in Georgia. Keep in mind, there's still police departments here in the US that only issue their officers a firearm, handcuffs and flashlight (no OC, baton, taser, etc.), and that because of department policies and liability concerns, you can't just add your own gear to your belt.



The Deputy Dinkheller's son is 11 years old today:

http://www.odmp.org/officer/15034-deputy-kyle-wayne-dinkheller



That's the age that I really got interested in guns and shooting myself...let's hope that he doesn't browse the Front Sight website, huh?



That's a great way to put it.



Yup. This link has an interesting first hand description of how a cop reacts to a rifle being pointed at him. Granted, it's a bit more sudden, but still, it reminds you that things can be harder to see from the inside of a situation.

It makes me shudder too...how hard would I pay attention to someone holding up a dime?


Originally Posted by Finalygotabeltfed
Are you saying that as a cop, you would be more likely to be sued for use of force? You are dreaming if you think that is the case. Anyone who simply holds an LTC and uses it to defend themself or family will be pilloried in this state.


Are you serious? Cops get sued constantly for use of force, a whole heck of a lot more than LTC holders do.

Yes, are you serious?
Nice job at trying to present my post out of context. I merely stated that cops are no more likely to get sued than any LTC holder in a case of use of force(and we are talking about the use of a gun here, not mace or a nightstick). As an LTC holder its a given that an LTC holder will be sued if they use their gun, as a cop its less likely as its looked upon as part of the job by the public.

 

[THUNDERCHIEF]

Years ago a buddy of mine who was going through the academy showed this to me (on a VHS tape with other police killings). I was disturbed when I saw it for the first time then. After just watching it I am just as disturbed. I guess I have not been desensitized after all these years.

/John

 

[BerkshireHunter]

That video is sickening. There is something seriously wrong on a human level with showing that for advertisement. It makes me want to tell all of his sponsors about it. I think Michael Savage has a banner for him on the front page of his site.

All I can say is, I hope to god they found that perp and put him in the express lane for riding the lightning.

 

[jonathans]

militiaman: are you between the ages of 18 and 46? are you male? in most states, you're a militiaman. federally, all able-bodied persons are militiamen and militiawomen (last i checked). on 9/11, the militia saved the white house from being struck by a plane -- they were on it already. the feds heard about it on CNN. after lunch, of course.

survivalist: yeah, okay. i guess driving 98mph down the highway is the hottest new survival tactic on the block.

quite frankly, anyone paranoid enough to think that the police are out to get them, and that they need 1) body armor 2) a dog 3) a semi-automatic rifle whenever they're out-of-doors, is too ignorant or mentally deficient to realize that they already are "being had" by paying the taxes that pay LEO salaries, is thus unfit for militia service as anything but the cook, and in my opinion probably could not survive his way out of a wet paper bag.

so, no thanks on the "right-wing terrorist" red scare. i would not be surprised to hear he did not have a single friend, nevermind a fire team.

 

[SteelShooter]

A Response from Front Sight

.

It seems a very vocal minority of law enforcement types have taken offense to my blog post below.

I say a very vocal minority because for every 100 or so positive responses I have received from law enforcement officers around the country, thanking me for this post, I have received a nasty e-mail from someone in law enforcement demanding that I remove the post and immediately apologize for exploiting the death of a fallen officer for Front Sight's profit.

Well, here is my response to those who were offended and have bullied their way on to chat rooms and forums to raise an outrage where there is none.

#1. I'm not the one who created, produced or edited the video in question.

#2. I'm not the one who released it to public domain by placing it on You Tube and other video sharing sites.

#3. I did not even search it out. It has been sent to me numerous times over the years by my law enforcement and private citizen students asking me to share it with other students as a teaching tool of what not to do in a lethal encounter.

#4. Nowhere in the video or this blog do I identify any individual officer or department, nor do I give any back story or epilogue that would identify or harm the image of the individuals or department involved. Ironically, only those who are demanding that I remove this video are guilty of identifying the officer, his family and his department in their inflammatory demands and outrageous accusations.

#5. The title, "Stop Screaming, Start Shooting" refers to the repeated screaming of commands by the officer when he clearly should have stopped screaming commands and started shooting. The title does not refer to his screams that followed during the gun fight.

#6. The demand by those law enforcement types that I immediately remove this blog and apologize for exploiting the death of an officer for profit, smacks of censorship and double standard. There are hundreds of violent crimes caught on video and 911 audios on the Internet from "for profit" sites (including law enforcement sites) where private citizens are injured or killed due to their lack of good judgment, tactics, and marksmanship, yet you do not see these same law enforcement types demanding that those videos be removed.

#7. As far as being a private, "for profit" training organization, which for some odd reason also seems to offend the vocal minority, may I state that a police officer or any employee of a government agency or even a non-profit organization who ACCEPTS A PAYCHECK is working "for profit."

#8. Am I sorry for the officer involved? Absolutely. I am sorry this officer did not receive the proper training and field supervision he needed to have the mindset, tactics and marksmanship skills to win a lethal encounter. Had he received proper training in mindset, tactics and marksmanship, he would be alive today. THAT is the reason and the ONLY reason why this blog was posted and why Front Sight provides special training offers attached to the blogs.

#9. Front Sight has a 14 year history of providing private citizens and law enforcement alike with a level of training that exceeds law enforcement and military standards without any boot camp mentality or drill instructors attitudes. To date, hundreds of thousands of people, private citizens and law enforcement alike have benefited from our training. Our post-course surveys prove 99.5% of our students love us and we welcome them back with our special offers and lifetime memberships. The other one half of 1 percent NOBODY can make happy as they look for the negative in anything positive and disrupt everyone else. We encourage the vocal minority to look for their training elsewhere.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

I like how he turned #9 into a continued advertisement. What a scumbag.

Oh yea and 99 out of 100 were congratulating him at such a great ad? Bullshit.

 

[M1911]

Just goes to show how much of a scumbag he is.

 

[Monty]

Some people will never get the big picture, it seems.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I like how he turned #9 into a continued advertisement. What a scumbag.

Oh yea and 99 out of 100 were congratulating him at such a great ad? Bullshit.

No matter what he said, you'd not be satisfied.

I'm glad he stood his ground and I wish him and all of his attendees the best success.

 

[M1911]

No matter what he said, you'd not be satisfied.

If he said that he realized it was poor judgment to use this video in his marketing of Front Sight, then he would have elevated himself in my regard. It is one thing to show this video during a class as training to show how and when to escalate force, and what can happen if you don't. It is entirely different to use it for marketing.

It doesn't surprise me at all that Piazza can't or won't recognize the difference. It disappoints me that others have the same ethical blindness.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

If he said that he realized it was poor judgment to use this video in his marketing of Front Sight, then he would have elevated himself in my regard. It is one thing to show this video during a class as training to show how and when to escalate force, and what can happen if you don't. It is entirely different to use it for marketing.

It doesn't surprise me at all that Piazza can't or won't recognize the difference. It disappoints me that others have the same ethical blindness.

Ethical blindness? More like a 20/20 view of reality sans the paralytic emotional handicap.

 

[M1911]

Ethical blindness? More like a 20/20 view of reality sans the paralytic emotional handicap.

I stand by my statement. And I suspect that many folks here agree with me, despite your eyerolling.

 

[Gadsden]

I like how he turned #9 into a continued advertisement. What a scumbag.

Oh yea and 99 out of 100 were congratulating him at such a great ad? Bullshit.

Just goes to show how much of a scumbag he is.

Yup, the guy is a retch. I know some of the locals in his area and they can talk all day about the stuff he pulls. Unbelievable.. I'm amazed anyone gives him a dime. Kudos to Rawles at Survivalblog.com for telling him he did not want his money on grounds he is immoral. Of course, he advertises like crazy with Alex Jones.. go figure.

 

[gjones77]

I posted this in a previous thread concerning the use of deadly force, it's something that's good to keep in mind.

For anyone who has any question about justification, here's a simple rule of thumb to follow in any situation with regards to drawing.

There are 3 preconditions that must be met before use of deadly force is authorized legally. These are taught in the USAF Security Police Academy, though they are military rules/laws, they can translate well in civilian life.

If 2 of the preconditions are present then drawing is an option, but actually shooting is not.

The preconditions are

1: Opportunity; The person is within range of causing bodily harm to an individual.

2: Intent; The person shows obvious intent to harm some one.

3: Capability; The person has the ability to actually cause bodily harm.

Example 1: An attacker has a knife and is threatening to stab a person who is across the room.

In this example the attacker has capability and intent, but no opportunity since they are not within striking distance.
(In this scenario the attacker is not an expert knife thrower or ninja)

Here you are able to draw, but can not use deadly force since only 2 preconditions are met.

Now, if the attacker turned and charged at the victim with the knife then the 3rd precondition would be met, but as long as they're not within striking distance of the victim, it is not.

Example 2: An attacker has a gun and is pointing it at their intended target and is getting ready to pull the trigger.

In this example deadly force is authorized, but as in any case discretion must be used, just because they have a gun doesn't mean they intend to shoot.

Here the 3 preconditions are met, the person has the opportunity since the victim is within striking distance of the weapon they're using, they have capability, and intent is there by them pointing the weapon at the victim.

Now, how this applies to a mugging is quite easy, if a person threatens you bodily harm and has a weapon then the first 2 preconditions are met, you can draw down.

If the attacker turns and runs then you have no reason to shoot since there are no more preconditions present, if they make a move at you with their weapon, you have all 3 preconditions for use of deadly force.

Always keep in mind that there is a ladder of force, you never want to climb a rung higher than the person who is threatening you, always stay at the same level based on the situation.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I stand by my statement. And I suspect that many folks here agree with me, despite your eyerolling.

Great....and I'll stand by my opinion also and disagree with them just as vehemently.

 

[BerkshireHunter]

Yup, the guy is a retch. I know some of the locals in his area and they can talk all day about the stuff he pulls. Unbelievable.. I'm amazed anyone gives him a dime. Kudos to Rawles at Survivalblog.com for telling him he did not want his money on grounds he is immoral. Of course, he advertises like crazy with Alex Jones.. go figure.

Mr. Piazza is definitely lacking in moral judgement. It does seem that he's all about the money, despite the fact that all of his ads say, "Millionaire patriot willing to pay for your firearms training!!!" I think I remember hearing on the GunDudes that he's constantly trying to sell you his product to the point where it's a big turn-off. They were saying how one of them went to one of his classes and was glad he didn't run into him. Piazza has quite the infamous reputation.

 

[BerkshireHunter]

After some searching, I'm glad to hear the suspect was sentenced to death two days after the incident in GA.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

If he said that he realized it was poor judgment to use this video in his marketing of Front Sight, then he would have elevated himself in my regard. It is one thing to show this video during a class as training to show how and when to escalate force, and what can happen if you don't. It is entirely different to use it for marketing.

Completely agree

 

[sig2009]

I watched the video and never saw him shot!!!

 

[GSG]

Yes, are you serious?
Nice job at trying to present my post out of context. I merely stated that cops are no more likely to get sued than any LTC holder in a case of use of force(and we are talking about the use of a gun here, not mace or a nightstick). As an LTC holder its a given that an LTC holder will be sued if they use their gun, as a cop its less likely as its looked upon as part of the job by the public.

That's not true at all. The average LTC holder has nothing more than his assets to be sued over. Most police departments are backed by cities or colleges with multi-million dollar budgets, lawyers on retainer, and use of force policies that can be used to hang the cop in civil court if they weren't followed. On top of that, every officer at the scene can be named in the suit (whether or not they shot), the supervisor, the department, the municipality, and on top of all that, the cops can be sued individually, which ties up their assets in court and is a nightmare in and of itself. It's common knowledge that many municipalities will settle out of court, even if it's an open and shut case in their favor, simply to avoid the cost and aggravation of trial. Every cop with a brain knows that getting sued is part of the game. It happens so often that the Fraternal Order of Police will provide member officers with legal representation as part of their membership, paid for by their dues.

I don't doubt that legal gun owners have been sued for shooting someone, but I have never once heard of it happening. I have heard countless reports (first hand from cops who've been sued), news stories, and second hand reports through the grapevine of cops being sued as a result of using their firearm in the line of duty, and I know that it happens all the time. You are very misguided if you think that LTC holder get sued more than cops by using their guns.

quite frankly, anyone paranoid enough to think that the police are out to get them, and that they need 1) body armor 2) a dog 3) a semi-automatic rifle whenever they're out-of-doors, is too ignorant or mentally deficient to realize that they already are "being had" by paying the taxes that pay LEO salaries, is thus unfit for militia service as anything but the cook, and in my opinion probably could not survive his way out of a wet paper bag.

How is it paranoid to have a dog, body armor and a rifle in your truck? More or less than say, carrying a pistol everywhere you go?

#8. Am I sorry for the officer involved? Absolutely. I am sorry this officer did not receive the proper training and field supervision he needed to have the mindset, tactics and marksmanship skills to win a lethal encounter. Had he received proper training in mindset, tactics and marksmanship, he would be alive today. THAT is the reason and the ONLY reason why this blog was posted and why Front Sight provides special training offers attached to the blogs.

#9. Front Sight has a 14 year history of providing private citizens and law enforcement alike with a level of training that exceeds law enforcement and military standards without any boot camp mentality or drill instructors attitudes. To date, hundreds of thousands of people, private citizens and law enforcement alike have benefited from our training. Our post-course surveys prove 99.5% of our students love us and we welcome them back with our special offers and lifetime memberships. The other one half of 1 percent NOBODY can make happy as they look for the negative in anything positive and disrupt everyone else. We encourage the vocal minority to look for their training elsewhere.

This is brilliant of him too. Plenty of people with excellant training get killed in gunfights, but I sincerely doubt that the Lauren's County Sheriff's Office invited Front Sight to sit through and review their training policies and procedures. He's talking out of his arse, endorsing his "superior training."

How lovely.

 

[S&WM&P9]

My god that was probably the worst video footage I have ever seen! It was in absolute horrible taste to use this in an advertisement and I hope these people go out of business. The only place I could see showing that video would be in training LEOs in a private setting. Just absolutely horrible!

Let me begin by saying that pretending there are no boogeymen out there does not make it so. That's like the idiot who merges onto the highway without looking because if they don't see any oncoming traffic then it must not be there. Anyone who chooses to arm themselves for the purpose of self defense should see this video and note how quickly things can deteriorate. I believe that is the message Dr. Piazza is trying to convey. I will agree that the video and accompanying audio was graphic and disturbing. However, if you were so bothered by it that rather than learning from it, all you can focus on is how could they show that scary video in their ad then maybe you are not truly prepared for the real thing. I certainly hope you never have to make that call but I don't think the Police Officer in the video would be offended at the notion that his murder may serve to help others survive!