Amazing video of cop getting shot on Front Sight website

S&WM&P9 said:
Let me begin by saying that pretending there are no boogeymen out there does not make it so. That's like the idiot who merges onto the highway without looking because if they don't see any oncoming traffic then it must not be there. Anyone who chooses to arm themselves for the purpose of self defense should see this video and note how quickly things can deteriorate. I believe that is the message Dr. Piazza is trying to convey. I will agree that the video and accompanying audio was graphic and disturbing. However, if you were so bothered by it that rather than learning from it, all you can focus on is how could they show that scary video in their ad then maybe you are not truly prepared for the real thing. I certainly hope you never have to make that call but I don't think the Police Officer in the video would be offended at the notion that his murder may serve to help others survive!
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Well said...and I agree completely.
 
S&WM&P9 said:
Let me begin by saying that pretending there are no boogeymen out there does not make it so. That's like the idiot who merges onto the highway without looking because if they don't see any oncoming traffic then it must not be there. Anyone who chooses to arm themselves for the purpose of self defense should see this video and note how quickly things can deteriorate. I believe that is the message Dr. Piazza is trying to convey. I will agree that the video and accompanying audio was graphic and disturbing. However, if you were so bothered by it that rather than learning from it, all you can focus on is how could they show that scary video in their ad then maybe you are not truly prepared for the real thing. I certainly hope you never have to make that call but I don't think the Police Officer in the video would be offended at the notion that his murder may serve to help others survive!
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That's a strawman argument. None of here have ever said that evil men don't exist. They do, that's why we carry guns.

Nor are we saying that using such a video for training is inappropriate. In its place, such training is appropriate.

What I am saying (and I think many people here agree with me) is that place is not in an advertisement. Advertisement != training.
 
S&WM&P9 said:
Let me begin by saying that pretending there are no boogeymen out there does not make it so. That's like the idiot who merges onto the highway without looking because if they don't see any oncoming traffic then it must not be there. Anyone who chooses to arm themselves for the purpose of self defense should see this video and note how quickly things can deteriorate. I believe that is the message Dr. Piazza is trying to convey. I will agree that the video and accompanying audio was graphic and disturbing. However, if you were so bothered by it that rather than learning from it, all you can focus on is how could they show that scary video in their ad then maybe you are not truly prepared for the real thing. I certainly hope you never have to make that call but I don't think the Police Officer in the video would be offended at the notion that his murder may serve to help others survive!
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The problem was the manner in which the footage was used. It isn't appropriate for pushing your own business. In a private classroom environment, yes it has it's uses.
 
I'll say it again, I doubt very much if the slain Officer in this video would feel exploited or dishonored by it's use. Whether in a training scenario or in an effort to make others aware of the need for proper training and mental preparedness. let's not get all Mr. Miyagi about it!
 
S&WM&P9 said:
I'll say it again, I doubt very much if the slain Officer in this video would feel exploited or dishonored by it's use. Whether in a training scenario or in an effort to make others aware of the need for proper training and mental preparedness. let's not get all Mr. Miyagi about it!
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You just simply do not get it. This video does indeed serve a purpose in a training environment, NOT being used as a scare tactic to get people to pony up dough to take this guy's class.
 
Big Joe said:
You just simply do not get it. This video does indeed serve a purpose in a training environment, NOT being used as a scare tactic to get people to pony up dough to take this guy's class.
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Yup.
Just imagine if it was your brother or father and than you watch it being broadcasted for personal gain. As the previous 100 posts have all said, if it was used as an example in a training class, fine. Although it was used in an ad and basically said "Don't end up like this guy, buy tickets to my class today!" Have some friggin respect.
 
Big Joe said:
You just simply do not get it. This video does indeed serve a purpose in a training environment, NOT being used as a scare tactic to get people to pony up dough to take this guy's class.
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No, you don't get it! The reason this person was gunned down in this video was that he was not "prepared" either mentally or tactically. And I will Say it one more time, I believe the message Dr. Piazza is trying to send is that anyone who carries a firearm for personal protection owes it to themselves to be "prepared". And once again, I very much doubt that the slain officer in this video would take offense to anyone using his example to ensure that these kinds of events are not the norm.
 
S&WM&P9 said:
No, you don't get it!
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Yeah, I know you are, but what am I...[rolleyes] GMAFB...

S&WM&P9 said:
The reason this person was gunned down in this video was that he was not "prepared" either mentally or tactically. And I will Say it one more time, I believe the message Dr. Piazza is trying to send is that anyone who carries a firearm for personal protection owes it to themselves to be "prepared".
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Read my response, I am NOT arguing that point! What I said is, that using this video as advertising material so you can make money off of it is a complete act of douche-baggery of the first order....PERIOD! I have no problem with this video being shown in a classroom environment, instructing others how quickly things can get deadly.

S&WM&P9 said:
And once again, I very much doubt that the slain officer in this video would take offense to anyone using his example to ensure that these kinds of events are not the norm.
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Unless you personally knew the departed, you have no basis of knowledge to make such a statement. However, one could also make the arguement that he wouldn't want this video out there at all for fear his loved ones may stumble accross it and be haunted by it for the rest of their lives. That's just a possibility though, I have no idea what the officer would want...I didn't know him.
 
S&WM&P9 said:
The reason this person was gunned down in this video was that he was not "prepared" either mentally or tactically. And I will Say it one more time, I believe the message Dr. Piazza is trying to send is that anyone who carries a firearm for personal protection owes it to themselves to be "prepared". And once again, I very much doubt that the slain officer in this video would take offense to anyone using his example to ensure that these kinds of events are not the norm.
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As others have posted in this thread, there's a lot more to the death of Kyle Dinkheller than his skills shooting, his training, or his mindset.

I've seen that video several times, and I'll be honest, it doesn't disturb or haunt me for whatever reason. But I cannot imagine how awful Deputy Dinkheller's widow, kids, parents or best friends would feel if they saw that commercial, hearing him scream and gurgle on his own blood in the last seconds of his time on earth. Not only that, but based on the deceased deputy's lifestyle, there's a good chance that his friends and family are members of the shooting community as well, people who might easily bump into this video online. Can you imagine seeing the violent death of your brother or father in a random commercial?

As far as I'm concerned, the people who need to see this video get to see it in training. The people who don't think they need training in the first place wouldn't benefit from training anyway if they got it because they wouldn't take it to heart. The average gun owning or LTC holding citizen has little to no use for this video, since it's a motor vehicle stop made by a cop, not an LTC holder defending themselves.

The Deputy died on film, and nothing's going to change that, but to use it to sell what Piazza's selling is nothing more than a cheap trick.
 
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What a scary situation. I actually felt sick as the shots ran out.

That being said, I think the footage is in some sort of "public use" domain. Why can't they use the footage?
 
Well, another thing to consider is how much of the video is shown. You could play it up to the first gunshot and the point could be made. You don't need to hear him screaming and taking his last breaths. The fact that this wasn't editted shows that this bag of crap knew exactly what effect he wanted and didn't care about anyone else.....as long as he gets his grubby little hands on some cash.
 
SecondAmdFirst said:
My god that was probably the worst video footage I have ever seen! It was in absolute horrible taste to use this in an advertisement and I hope these people go out of business. The only place I could see showing that video would be in training LEOs in a private setting. Just absolutely horrible!
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I agree! Absolutely Horrible!
 
BadBoyBilly said:
Wow what a disturbing video. I'm kind of shocked that the cop didn't do anything when the individual charged him (night stick, or pepper spray). When the cop saw him loading a gun, and started to point the muzzle at his location doesn't that give him the right to use deadly force? RIP.
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I thought that's when the action was going to start. While I have no tactical experience, I think this might be where the "training" component comes into play.
 
M1911 said:
They can. They shouldn't.
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That's what I thought. However, I think they should. I still see value in the video for training purposes. If we don't learn from our mistakes, how are we supposed to improve? Clearly there was some mistakes the officer made. Without documenting what transpired, other officers will surely make the same mistakes with the same deadly consequences.
 
mikem317 said:
I still don't see a problem with it.
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Yup, that's the disheartening thing, you (and some other people out here) cannot make the distinction between using grapic footage like that in a training environment as opposed to posting it to in a blog in an effort to profit from it.
 
Big Joe said:
Yup, that's the disheartening thing, you (and some other people out here) cannot make the distinction between using grapic footage like that in a training environment as opposed to posting it to in a blog in an effort to profit from it.
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Well, if we truly believe in a free market, the people at Front Site should be able to use it for marketing purposes. If 100 more officers purchase the Front Site program, won't they be able to better handle these type of deadly encounters?
 
mikem317 said:
What a scary situation. I actually felt sick as the shots ran out.

That being said, I think the footage is in some sort of "public use" domain. Why can't they use the footage?
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While I do respect your right to an opinion, I'll leave you with a quote that I stole from another forum:

"Just because you have the right to tell your grandmother to go suck a big black cawk, would you?"
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It's more about the moral issue here, and the intended use of the video.
Does he have the right to use the video? Absolutely.
Is it a good moral decision to use the video as advertising? Not in my book.
 
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mikem317 said:
Well, if we truly believe in a free market, the people at Front Site should be able to use it for marketing purposes. If 100 more officers purchase the Front Site program, won't they be able to better handle these type of deadly encounters?
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If that's the tool that Piazza feels he must use to get (scare) people into his classrooms, then his reputation must truely be going into the toilet and he's getting desperate for clients. I stand by my opinion that it is in extremely poor taste to use that footage as an advertisement for your business, rather than a part of a curriculum. Also, police officers are shown videos like that (and worse) during their training in their academy, no need for police to pay Piazza to see them.
 
Scare them? Getting shot is a reality for every law enforcement agent, right? To a lesser extent that applies to all of us.

I think the advertising is provocative and judging by the content of the posts, clearly it has had an effect here. I hope it nets thousands more officers/agents that would have otherwise gone elsewhere or worse, didn't get the needed training that might have saved this officer's life.

Fortunately, posters who feel that Piazza's blog entry is inflammatory realize that it's a free market, and made the decision not to purchase their product. Anything more reeks of censorship.
 
mikem317 said:
Scare them?
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Absolutely, his attitude is take MY class or this could happen to you...not seek out the proper training (regardless of where) so that if you find yourself in a situation like this, you'll be able to react accordingly.

mikem317 said:
I think the advertising is provocative...
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Just curious, do you find snuff films provocative/interesting too?

mikem317 said:
...and judging by the content of the posts, clearly it has had an effect here.
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You bet, a negative one...the majority of people weighing in on this matter are turned off by this type of advertising and will not be patronizing his business...that good ole free market system working like a well oiled machine, totally agree there.

mikem317 said:
I hope thousands more officers/agents that would have otherwise gone without, get the needed training that might have saved this officer's life.
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Fixed that for you. I seriously doubt FS is the best training available.

mikem317 said:
Fortunately, posters who feel that Piazza's blog entry is inflammatory realize that it's a free market, and made the decision not to purchase their product. Anything more reeks of censorship.
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Censorship has less than nothing to do with the discussion going on within this thread, the foul stench of extreme poor taste is the matter at hand, sir.
 
mikem317 said:
That's what I thought. However, I think they should. I still see value in the video for training purposes. If we don't learn from our mistakes, how are we supposed to improve? Clearly there was some mistakes the officer made. Without documenting what transpired, other officers will surely make the same mistakes with the same deadly consequences.
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#$!@#$!

Goodness gracious. I've never said that it wasn't a valid training tool. But Piazza was using it for advertising, not training.

Can't you understand the difference?
 
mikem317 said:
Well, if we truly believe in a free market, the people at Front Site should be able to use it for marketing purposes.
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They are "able" to use it for marketing. It is within the law. But it is disgusting. I really feel for you if you can't understand that.
 
FrontSite sells a product. Their product is designed to better prepare civilians and LEOs for deadly encounters. This is just a marketing tool. No more, no less.

I guess some people feel that online marketing should be limited to scrolling HTML-coded marquees or something.
 
mikem317 said:
I guess some people feel that online marketing should be limited to scrolling HTML-coded marquees or something.
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Drat, you figured us all out [shocked] I just hope you don't catch on that myself and several others that have posted in this thread are total socialist/communist/fascists and don't even believe in people making money or educating yourself outside what the government provides and that the capitalist/free market system is a total joke...oh sh!t, did I let that slip out...whoops [rolleyes] [laugh]
 

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