9mm VS a Bear

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This guy was 18 years old, and took a .270 round through both shoulders. Then ran another 200 yards.
P9202889.jpg



This guy was probably 2 years old. He took a 30.06 square in the chest, which exited his right shoulder. He was tracked for 2 miles, and never found.
Bear.jpg


I wouldn't want to try knocking one down with a 9mm if he was angry and on a mission.
 
Ive only shot one bear with a revolver. He wasnt huge at 284 lbs. and he wasnt on a raging charge, but I whacked him solid in the lower shoulder quartering at me around 35 yards. The shot rolled him over and he took off running and made it about 40 yards.
I used my Dan Wesson .44 with Garrett Hammerheads.The bullet went clean through him coming out through his rear leg.

44330hhps.jpg


http://www.garrettcartridges.com/default.asp
 
lemonlime571 said:
So would you be looking for penetration or expansion???
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Both. Bears have a very thick hide, and a very thick layer of fat. You need to penetrate this before the bullet can do it's work. This fat and thick hair will also help to close up the wound quickly, which slows or stops the bleeding rapidly, making bears much more difficult to track than something like a deer.
 
Forget pistols, I think we're talking about needing a rifle at that point. I wouldn't want to be shooting a bear with a 9mm... or pretty much any pistol actually.
 
TomH said:
Forget pistols, I think we're talking about needing a rifle at that point. I wouldn't want to be shooting a bear with a 9mm... or pretty much any pistol actually.
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I disagree. While you should have a long gun, you also want a handgun on your hip. More than a few people who were carrying long guns have accidentally startled a brown bear in cover and been attacked so quickly that they could not bring their long gun to bear (pun intended). At point, they were limited to beating the bear with their fists. Sticking a .44 in the bears ribs would be a bit more effective.
 
cricco said:
I wouldn't want to try knocking one down with a 9mm if he was angry and on a mission.
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I agree, but I wouldn’t want to “mace” an angry bear on a mission either. Unfortunately the OP gave us a choice of 9mm or “bear mace”.

On the other hand, if you give yourself a good dosing of mace as he attacks, perhaps he’ll curse you in the morning. [grin]

Respectfully,
jkelly
 
jkelly said:
Could you point me to those statistics you're citing regarding Black bear attacks in New England please? Respectfully, jkelly
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No, but I can point you to a study done at the request of The State of Alaska, which shows OC being more effective on bears - even grizzly bears than firearms. Even experienced hunters when faced with a charging bear often miss... I'm not sure how to post links from here at DSG, (have tried before unsuccessfully), but will certainly point you to plenty of research on the subject when I'm at my own computer. You never asked for specific research regarding black bear attacks in New England, (which is a rather silly point - black bears do not possess magic OC immunity powers), but will do some research on that bit of insignificant data for you if you need to... In the meantime, I'd love for you to do a test that I set up for a friend of mine who insisted he was better off with his .357 Magnum in the woods instead of OC. If you don't have access to a range with automatic target retrieval, I'd be happy to run this test for you if you ever come out this way. Set one upper half of a full sized silhouette at 25-yards. If safe, have this silhouette, so the head is about at your waist level, (I used a thin slat). Next, with a backpack on and your weapon holstered as if you were hiking, have a friend 'pluck' the overhead cable with some force to get the target swinging and hopping about and simultaneously hit the retrieve switch, (if safe). Unholster your weapon and unload it on the target before it gets to you. If you can, try to roleplay being completely surprised and having the shit scared out of you at the same time, (a little tough unless you're a method actor). Get back to us on how well you do, but remember - even a fast target retriever is not nearly as fast as a bear closing on you....Try this test and then tell me how safe you are with your 9mm....

I can't speak to your personal history, but can to my own. I have had many encounters with black bears in the woods and in my yard...many. I even had a few 'mock charges', with only one across the road from the Becket Transfer Station make a serious run at me...That bear closed a 75-yard gap in a few seconds. I barely had time to get my spray out and I'll be damned - it worked like a charm...I'm 99% sure had I gone for my Colt Defender, I would have missed...Many do....YMMV
 
MassMark said:
No, but I can point you to a study done at the request of The State of Alaska, which shows OC being more effective on bears - even grizzly bears than firearms. Even experienced hunters when faced with a charging bear often miss... I'm not sure how to post links from here at DSG, (have tried before unsuccessfully), but will certainly point you to plenty of research on the subject when I'm at my own computer. You never asked for specific research regarding black bear attacks in New England, (which is a rather silly point - black bears do not possess magic OC immunity powers), but will do some research on that bit of insignificant data for you if you need to... In the meantime, I'd love for you to do a test that I set up for a friend of mine who insisted he was better off with his .357 Magnum in the woods instead of OC. If you don't have access to a range with automatic target retrieval, I'd be happy to run this test for you if you ever come out this way. Set one upper half of a full sized silhouette at 25-yards. If safe, have this silhouette, so the head is about at your waist level, (I used a thin slat). Next, with a backpack on and your weapon holstered as if you were hiking, have a friend 'pluck' the overhead cable with some force to get the target swinging and hopping about and simultaneously hit the retrieve switch, (if safe). Unholster your weapon and unload it on the target before it gets to you. If you can, try to roleplay being completely surprised and having the shit scared out of you at the same time, (a little tough unless you're a method actor). Get back to us on how well you do, but remember - even a fast target retriever is not nearly as fast as a bear closing on you....Try this test and then tell me how safe you are with your 9mm....

I can't speak to your personal history, but can to my own. I have had many encounters with black bears in the woods and in my yard...many. I even had a few 'mock charges', with only one across the road from the Becket Transfer Station make a serious run at me...That bear closed a 75-yard gap in a few seconds. I barely had time to get my spray out and I'll be damned - it worked like a charm...I'm 99% sure had I gone for my Colt Defender, I would have missed...Many do....YMMV
Click to expand...

So how well does bear spray work on people?
 
What the heck is bear spray? And, how close does the bear have to be to use it? You must be able to engage the bear with a pistol from a farther distance than the spray. What happens if it's windy???

I'll take a pistol any day. But, after reading all these posts I will swap out the 9mm for my .45 on my next trip to NH. The Glock 30 will work for any situation.

-Cuz.
 
Cuz said:
What the heck is bear spray? And, how close does the bear have to be to use it? You must be able to engage the bear with a pistol from a farther distance than the spray. What happens if it's windy???

I'll take a pistol any day. But, after reading all these posts I will swap out the 9mm for my .45 on my next trip to NH. The Glock 30 will work for any situation.
Click to expand...

You really should read this link, which was previously posted: http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

Glock 30 work for any situation? I wouldn't want to depend on .45 ACP when being charged by a 400-lb black bear.
 
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M1911 said:
You really should read this link, which was previously posted: http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/br...epperspray.htm

Glock 30 work for any situation? I wouldn't want to depend on .45 ACP when being charged by a 400-lb black bear.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but the link didn't work. As for the G30, I'd prefer it to anything that comes in an aerosol can. At least the range is more than 10 or 15 feet.
 
Cuz said:
Sorry, but the link didn't work. As for the G30, I'd prefer it to anything that comes in an aerosol can. At least the range is more than 10 or 15 feet.
Click to expand...

You really ought to re-read the thread. Hell, if I had to stick with a Glock, a .357 Sig or 10mm would be better than .45ACP based on what was said here.
 
Cuz said:
Sorry, but the link didn't work. As for the G30, I'd prefer it to anything that comes in an aerosol can. At least the range is more than 10 or 15 feet.
Click to expand...


If no one finds it, I'll post a link tomorrow...FWIW I enveloped the bear I sprayed from about 20-feet and it was hanging on the shrubbery well behind him...

Considering the excessively low chances of a bear attack - shooting one that you may encounter not only seems foolish to me, but a waste of wildlife....
 
Cuz said:
Sorry, but the link didn't work. As for the G30, I'd prefer it to anything that comes in an aerosol can. At least the range is more than 10 or 15 feet.
Click to expand...

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

Here's the link that works. Please read it.

Bear spray has much greater range than 10-15 feet and it is far easier to effectively hit the bear with spray than with a handgun.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't bring a handgun. I would. But I would reach for the bear spray first. If there were two of us, one would use the bear spray while the other covered with a firearm.
 
PaulD said:
You really ought to re-read the thread. Hell, if I had to stick with a Glock, a .357 Sig or 10mm would be better than .45ACP based on what was said here.
Click to expand...
twenty+one* 230gr hardcast 10mm rounds loaded to the max limit being rapid fired might be able to save your butt [laugh]


*G20 w/ Arrendondo mag extension.
 
ok why dont we have a "gladiators" gameshow - put me in the octagon with the biggest and baddest brown bear on the planet and only arm me with a 9mm with NATO fmj see who will prevail... thats the only way to find out .. Davey Crockett killed a bear with a single shot didnt he? or was it?


[hmmm]
 
TXDMERC said:
ok why dont we have a "gladiators" gameshow - put me in the octagon with the biggest and baddest brown bear on the planet and only arm me with a 9mm with NATO fmj see who will prevail... thats the only way to find out .. Davey Crockett killed a bear with a single shot didnt he? or was it?


[hmmm]
Click to expand...



Good luck with that. I'll take one front row ticket and a tarp. [wink]
 
Davey Crockett killed him a Bar when he was 3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwy8-Y8XTto

TXDMERC said:
ok why dont we have a "gladiators" gameshow - put me in the octagon with the biggest and baddest brown bear on the planet and only arm me with a 9mm with NATO fmj see who will prevail... thats the only way to find out .. Davey Crockett killed a bear with a single shot didnt he? or was it?


[hmmm]
Click to expand...
 
MassMark,
My statement about feeling safer with a 9mm was directed to the OP’s questions regarding black bears in the northeast. My interest in your statement was if you actually had any data regarding “full on (black) bear attack(s)” and the resultant fatalities for pepper spray vs a firearm, again in the northeast. That is the species and the area I’m interested in. My guess, at the time I asked for that data, was that you may have extended the territory in question and species involved to arrive at your statement’s conclusion.

I would think that there would not be much information available, as I understand that there have been very few fatalities involving black bears in the northeast, which perked my interest in any data you might have.

I would think bear attacks would be very difficult to quantify in an accurate way.

To answer your question, yes I’ve seen black bears while hunting, but I have never seen any aggression from them and the least powerful firearm I had with me was a .44 magnum. I’ve seen brown bears, as a tourist, but I was never close to them.

Respectfully,
jkelly
 
Muzzle energy in ft-lbs:

9 mm 340
.357 500
.44 mg 900
.454 1900

The .454 has over 5 times the energy of the 9 mm.
 
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