9mm VS a Bear

[thebusinessend]

So I was out drinking last night with a few friends. The topic of our next camping trip came up and we began discussing bear attacks. But only bears indigenous to the northeast so mainly black bears.
I said that you could kill a bear with a 9mm pistol. My argument was if you could put 3-5 rounds in a 5 inch grouping from 25 yards you could hit the bear either in his eye/face, throat or heart and the bear would either leave or be dead.

The scenario then changed to a charging bear. Everyone said even if you had a 15 round mag and put all 15 into the bear it wouldn't stop it. I couldn't swallow that.
I would assume a 357. would be able to penetrate the bears skull and get his attention. Aside from the S&W Mag 500. which would be ideal. I would only have a 9mm on my person. Because when i go camping next time that's what I will be carrying.
so do you think any certain type of ammo would help, maybe +p+ teflon coated rounds? or would you be better off with bear mace.

 

[richc]

I've got $500 for the person that wants to test this theory live... I just want full rights to the YouTube video...

 

[ochmude]

My gut tells me you'd be better off with bear spray. You have to keep in mind that, compared to a human, a bear has much more dense muscle and connective tissue, much thicker layers of the same over vital organs, a significantly heavier bone structure, and a pretty robust layer of skin and fur. If you can be extremely accurate, like "shoot the gun out of his hands" accurate, you might be able to score a vital shot, but you can't bet your life on that. A bear carries a lot of crap over it's vital organs, and a 9mm is going to have a tough time getting through all that.

 

[Spanz]

Yeah, just be careful of ricochet when thos .357 rounds bounce off of the bruins skull!

 

[RickG]

It's all about shot placement. If you shot a bear in the head/brain with a 9mm he will not bother you anymore. 15 shots fired in panic mode as a big black meanie tries to make you his dinner might stop him, might not. There have been lots of documented cases of people absorbing multiple pistol shots before stopping, let alone a bear. Again it all depends on shot placement and your ability under life threatening stress.

 

[Supermoto]

The general consensus in bear attacks is that if you have 6 rounds available. fire 5, leave the last one for yourself

 

[Ma$$hole]

Read the MA hunting regulations on minimum caliber allowed to hunt bear in the abtract available at www.mass.gov/masswildlife. This will confirm ochmude's point. They don't want you trying to take these big guys down with sub .40 ammo. You really don't want one of these roaming around pissed off with 9mm frags in his chest. Sure think about yourself first but think about the community a close second when the thing goes ape (bear) shit on a neighboring camp.

 

[ryan81986]

I'd rather have a 12ga filled with slugs.

 

[60 buckscash]

I would have to second the slugs. If you are worried about bears and only wana carry a side arm then my vote would be with the 44 mag or bigger.

 

[RI_John]

First, black bears are not very aggressive, unless 1) you're near their cub or 2) they are conditioned to be around humans (like bears in northern Maine that like to hang around landfills eating trash)

"Bear bagging" and cooking away from your sleeping area will be much more effective than a 9mm. The most likely scenario for a black bear bothering you would be most likely at night, while you're in your sleeping bag, and Mr. or Mrs. Bear decides to check out all the yummy human trash around your site or your tent. At that point lights and loud noises will most likely scare it away.

However, if you insist on wanting to be able to shoot a bear with a handgun, I would FIRST worry about accessibility of the weapon. If it's in your pack, it does no good, if you need it, you're going to need it immediately.

As for caliber, sure, a 9mm could penetrate a bear's skull, if you're lucky enough to get off a head shot! Personally, if the conversation is simply about CALIBER, I would want something much bigger than a 9mm. A .41 Magnum would be the minimum I'd consider. The bigger, the better! A 9mm hitting a charging bear center mass would just piss it off. (though it might bleed out later, a few hours after it pooped you out!)

 

[MassMark]

The general consensus in bear attacks is that if you have 6 rounds available. fire 5, leave the last one for yourself

Seriously, you're more likely to die in a legitimate bear attack with a gun than with bear spray...Buy a can and have a nice camp out. Leave the 9mm for plinking, or threats of the two legged variety...

 

[M1911]

First, black bears are not very aggressive

Usually. Every now and then, a black bear decides people are food, hunts one down, and eats him.

 

[June4th]

Or you just need a pocket knife: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1023312/posts

This guy had success with .45: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298031

Bottom line, something is better than nothing.

 

[jkelly]

I'd feel safer with the 9mm.

Respectfully,
jkelly

 

[DickWanner]

.41mag is considered the minimum for bear hunting. 10mm w/ 15rds+ or 200/230gr hardcast/FMJ is considered the minimum for bear protection.

That being said which would you rather have in hand, a little 9mm handgun or a big stick

 

[CRSIII]

I've been thinking about Clarks .460 rowland conversion for this very concern.

 

[June4th]

I've been thinking about Clarks .460 rowland conversion for this very concern.

Damn you all! Now I have to add another gun on my shopping list!

 

[ryan81986]

I think this is the only handgun I'd trust

 

[b79holmes]

I think it was MassMark who sent me this link.

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

I had a local gun shop order bear spray for me.

I also have a S&W .44Mag Mountain Gun and Buffalo Bore ammo with hard lead bullets.

Hunting and stopping a problem bear are two different things. I'd not think a 9mm would do much unless your lucky.

Bill

 

[Blues508]

If you go with the 9mm better save the last round for yourself.

 

[Admin]

The general consensus in bear attacks is that if you have 6 rounds available. fire 5, leave the last one for yourself

+1

 

[gerrycaruso]

If you say you can put 3-5 rounds in a 5" circle at 25 yds. I believe you. Hitting the bobbing head of a pissed off bear, closing the distance as fast as a galloping horse, while you're scared sh*tless? No offense but I don't think so. Bring a fat friend that you can outrun.

 

[Tooth]

fat freind

I agree a slow tasty fat freind would be a better option.

 

[thebusinessend]

So far the fat friend idea seems to work the best for me. Looks like i have to make a phone call.

If you say you can put 3-5 rounds in a 5" circle at 25 yds. I believe you. Hitting the bobbing head of a pissed off bear, closing the distance as fast as a galloping horse, while you're scared sh*tless? No offense but I don't think so. Bring a fat friend that you can outrun.

 

[JRyan]

I think it was MassMark who sent me this link.

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

I had a local gun shop order bear spray for me.

I also have a S&W .44Mag Mountain Gun and Buffalo Bore ammo with hard lead bullets.

Hunting and stopping a problem bear are two different things. I'd not think a 9mm would do much unless your lucky.

Bill

I wonder about the firearms data. Caliber, location of firearm (was it at the bottom of a pack?) etc.

I think it might be wise to carry the spray deterrent and a BFG on your hip.

 

[Kid Presentable]

I think this is the only handgun I'd trust

+1

 

[dreamer]

Its a pretty biased review, (see link in earlier posts) but keeping in mind their anti-bear-shooting stance it is very helpful. Keep in mind they study these animals, so the don't want to seem them harmed unless necessary. Note that they explained away the failures of the bear spray, and casually mentioned the use of 22LR at least once for the firearms data. Also note that they suggest a secondary protection as well, and include firearms in that list.

My conclusion is that the bear spray is a good primary, with leaded back-up. Then again, I think a smaller two-legged species poses as much potential risk when you are isolated in the woods, so the firearm should be at the ready (when legal) regardless.

 

[SA John]

I agree with jkelly - use the 9mm. Remember reading an account of a fisherman killing a brown bear in Alaska with a Browing HiPower in 9mm. Have read about the Italian ballonists who landed on the ice shelf off Greenland during the early 1930s and killed 2 stalking polar bears at 50 feet with a Colt .38 Special. Bullets punctured both lungs on broadside shots. Won't stop a charge, but it will bleed them out quickly like an arrow will if you hit the good spot. A full jacket 9mm and a RNL 158 .38 Special will out-penetrate any hollowpoint in the same caliber even if it's out of a magnum. I've shot 800 fps RNL 158 Police loads (standard load) through 24" of wet newpaper. The 9mm does about the same. A double-rifle in .45 caliber would be my first choice for any bear but I would not feel sorry for myself with a 15 shot 9mm either. The big .500 S&W is a poor choice because few people can shoot heavily recoiling handguns well enough.

 

[PaulD]

The most powerful handgun I own is a .357 mag. Therefore, I'd bring bear spray and then shoot the thing.

 

[RI_John]

Okay, enough of this 9mm talk, THIS is what you really need for a damn bear!

A Pfeifer-Zeliska .600 Nitro Express Magnum