9mm VS a Bear

Status
Not open for further replies.
M1911 said:
http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

Here's the link that works. Please read it.

Bear spray has much greater range than 10-15 feet and it is far easier to effectively hit the bear with spray than with a handgun.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't bring a handgun. I would. But I would reach for the bear spray first. If there were two of us, one would use the bear spray while the other covered with a firearm.
Click to expand...

Exactly...When I hike I always carry a sidearm and a knife along with my bear spray. There are those that would think even that is over the top - perhaps it is - most of my hiker friends go armed with little more than a Swiss Army Knife and a walking stick - though a few have started to carry spray. I just always carry - always have, so the woods is no different...

If you were to hike regularly behind my home - up along the AT and into Beartown SF, you'd likely be in the company of bears more than you realize. They're not fans of us on any level - hearing you coming, will send them going. I advise people who do not want to encounter bears to make noise - bear bells are very effective, (if not a bit annoying)...

Your only real fear should be if you encounter a cub on its own. They sometimes lag behind mom and getting in between a cub and its mother is bad juju. Temptation would be to stand there and say: "aww, cute little bear cub", but your best bet is to back slowly away. If the mother were to appear and charge, continue to back away - the cub will in most cases run to it's mother and the encounter is over. You're fine and haven't shot her and by proxy killed her cub,(s). If in the excessively rare chance the bear gets by your defenses, drop, roll into a ball and cover. Bears - especially black bears, cannot afford to fight. They depend on health to survive and will avoid confrontation, as injury to them means a lower chance of survival.....
 
MassMark said:
Exactly...When I hike I always carry a sidearm and a knife along with my bear spray. There are those that would think even that is over the top - perhaps it is - most of my hiker friends go armed with little more than a Swiss Army Knife and a walking stick - though a few have started to carry spray. I just always carry - always have, so the woods is no different...

If you were to hike regularly behind my home - up along the AT and into Beartown SF, you'd likely be in the company of bears more than you realize. They're not fans of us on any level - hearing you coming, will send them going. I advise people who do not want to encounter bears to make noise - bear bells are very effective, (if not a bit annoying)...

Your only real fear should be if you encounter a cub on its own. They sometimes lag behind mom and getting in between a cub and its mother is bad juju. Temptation would be to stand there and say: "aww, cute little bear cub", but your best bet is to back slowly away. If the mother were to appear and charge, continue to back away - the cub will in most cases run to it's mother and the encounter is over. You're fine and haven't shot her and by proxy killed her cub,(s). If in the excessively rare chance the bear gets by your defenses, drop, roll into a ball and cover. Bears - especially black bears, cannot afford to fight. They depend on health to survive and will avoid confrontation, as injury to them means a lower chance of survival.....
Click to expand...

Big +1

To the OP and others who would carry a small caliber handgun and that's it go hang out on some Alaska forums for a while and then come back.

At 25-35mph running speed at a distance of 25-30ft (where a bear usually decides whether to make a full charge or not) you have exactly one second before you are mauled. Good luck getting 15rds. of 9mm off. Not that they'll do much anyway unless you shoot it in the eye.

PaulD said:
So how well does bear spray work on people?
Click to expand...

It works awesomely. IANAL but I would be concerned about using a can explicitly labeled "bear spray" on a human due to federal law concerning aerosols. Purchase a can that is labeled "defense spray". UDAP makes some like this.

In NE when I hike I bring spray for the bears and a pistol for the two legged critters. In Northern Idaho I take spray, a 12ga. 18" loaded with 3" Brenneke slugs (you don't want Foster or regular deer slugs, they mushroom too easily) and a large caliber handgun. The spray is the first thing I would reach for.
 
MassMark said:
Exactly...When I hike I always carry a sidearm and a knife along with my bear spray. There are those that would think even that is over the top - perhaps it is - most of my hiker friends go armed with little more than a Swiss Army Knife and a walking stick - though a few have started to carry spray. I just always carry - always have, so the woods is no different...

If you were to hike regularly behind my home - up along the AT and into Beartown SF, you'd likely be in the company of bears more than you realize. They're not fans of us on any level - hearing you coming, will send them going. I advise people who do not want to encounter bears to make noise - bear bells are very effective, (if not a bit annoying)...

Your only real fear should be if you encounter a cub on its own. They sometimes lag behind mom and getting in between a cub and its mother is bad juju. Temptation would be to stand there and say: "aww, cute little bear cub", but your best bet is to back slowly away. If the mother were to appear and charge, continue to back away - the cub will in most cases run to it's mother and the encounter is over. You're fine and haven't shot her and by proxy killed her cub,(s). If in the excessively rare chance the bear gets by your defenses, drop, roll into a ball and cover. Bears - especially black bears, cannot afford to fight. They depend on health to survive and will avoid confrontation, as injury to them means a lower chance of survival.....
Click to expand...

Stop it! No one cares about facts or the social life of bears! We just wanna bust a cap in Papa Bear's ass with our 9s! Now, Mr. Bear Expert, what kind of ammo should I be packing for my Glock 19 to make sure I kill it with a single shot?
 
The magic kind, that killed JFK. I have a box laying around here some place if your interested. But I would only trade it for other mystical enchanted items.

like the Sig Unicorn horn or the S&w spear that peirced jeasus side.

JohnM said:
Stop it! No one cares about facts or the social life of bears! We just wanna bust a cap in Papa Bear's ass with our 9s! Now, Mr. Bear Expert, what kind of ammo should I be packing for my Glock 19 to make sure I kill it with a single shot?
Click to expand...
 
Don't forget to add this to your pistol in case the 9mm fails:

PB1-0ss.jpg


Now hopefully the two best threads of yesterday can merge.
 
yukon

I am living in the Yukon this summer. 2 months by myself. 30 miles from civilization.

I am bringing a 12 guage. One blank as the first round...then 00buck then slug, 00buck, slug...repeat.

I have spent tons of time with Alaska fish and games and talked at length with the premier "brown bear" expert about what to do if "bad things happen"

He has killed 4 bears in self defense. One was on top of him and he put a 308 in the bears mouth. He says either a 12 gauge or a 308 are what you want to be carrying.

If you have a handgun...he said "file off the sights"

me:why, so your draw is quicker?

him: no...so it doesn't hurt as much when the bear shoves the handgun up your ass.
 
?

great point.

but....its the meth heads in canada that I'm most worried about.

should I still scrap the blank? but I'm afraid of hitting someone with the 00buck.

The thing is this...if someone drives up the road to my cabin, theres not reason to be there other than to try to steal stuff. I'll be the only one with a gun, however, I want them to know RIGHT AWAY that i am not messing around.

thoughts on how to stack for bear and human protection?

my idea now

blank - 00buck - slug - 00buck - slug - 00buck
 
Why not bring a handgun with you as well? Have that for the meth heads... and save the shotty for the bears.
 
holyroler said:
great point.

but....its the meth heads in canada that I'm most worried about.

should I still scrap the blank? but I'm afraid of hitting someone with the 00buck.

The thing is this...if someone drives up the road to my cabin, theres not reason to be there other than to try to steal stuff. I'll be the only one with a gun, however, I want them to know RIGHT AWAY that i am not messing around.

thoughts on how to stack for bear and human protection?

my idea now

blank - 00buck - slug - 00buck - slug - 00buck
Click to expand...

00buck / slug alternation is kinda pointless. Brenneke slugs and get off as many as you can before you get mauled.
 
As of 10 years ago, the largest bear killed in North America was killed on a front porch of a cabin by an Inuit Woman firing a single shot bolt action .22LR rifle. She managed to fire the bullet through the bears eye socket at the correct angle such that the round passed through the small hole for the optic nerve and the round entered the brain cavity and proceeded to reflect multiple times off the interior of the skull. - Still, I would not recommend a .22LR for bear protection.

For bear protection, select the hardest hitting caliber that you can rapidly fire accurately. Select the deepest penetrating bullets that caliber offers and a weapin with reasonably high capacity.

I have 2 hanguns I consider reasonable for bear protection - A S&W Model 500 with a 4" compensated barrel (I would not recommend the S&W "bear country survival kits" because they take a .500 S&W magnum with an uncompensated 2 3/4" barrel. They are EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to control) and I have a Glock 20 10mm with a 6" barrel.

For the S&W 500 I load 350gn FMJ-HP bullets to about 1600fps - These are heavy-copper plated lead bullets which are hollowed after the plating which significantly delays expansion.

For the Glock I load 230gn Hard Cast Wide Flat Point bullets at 1150fps or 180gn FMJs at 1250pfs. They're not as effective as the 500s, but I have 3x as many.

In NH I have the advantage of allowing Open Carry, making the handgun more readily accessible, but I still carry a slung 12ga pump loaded with 2 1oz slugs followed by 3 3" magnum 00 Buck. The pistols are there in case the bear is already to close to bring the shotgun up from its sling. 2 Slugs allow for better penetration while the buck-shots are there for broader damage once rapid firing has started to sacrifice accuracy.

If some Meth-head decided to jump me while I'm in bear country, well he's going to have to deal with the fact that I've loaded to deal with bears and not people.

General Concensis on 9mm verse a bear: A 9mm FMJ lacks the tissue damage to effectively stop a bear within reasonable accuracy limits in a survivable time frame and 9mm JHP lack the penetration to reach anything vital.

Do not attempt to fire a 9mm bullet through a bear's skull - the skull is rounded and steeply sloped, unless you are lucky enough to score a true perpendicular skull strike the round is more likely to deflect off the skull than cause significant damage and while head-hits bleed badly, the pain typically only inferiates the bear.
 
PaulD said:
So how well does bear spray work on people?
Click to expand...

I was watching an episode of Out of the Wild: The Alaska Experiment this past weekend. One of the guy tripped and fell, somehow his bear spray went off in his face, he didn't seem to enjoy it very much.
 
I could have used this information prior to my Meet and Greet with the Black / Brown Bear I had 3 months ago.



ShadeWPI said:
Do not attempt to fire a 9mm bullet through a bear's skull - the skull is rounded and steeply sloped, unless you are lucky enough to score a true perpendicular skull strike the round is more likely to deflect off the skull than cause significant damage and while head-hits bleed badly, the pain typically only inferiates the bear.
Click to expand...
 
The FBI did a study on the stopping power of 9mm vs. .45ACP (IIRC) and they found the stopping power of 9mm to be grossly inadequate. This study was brought about when it was discovered the amount of 9mm rounds needed to stop someone was incredibly higher than those that were used when .45's were employed. This led to a massive shift in law enforcement away from the 9mm to another cartridge that had sufficent human stopping power and still allowed high capacity (capacity being the main reason LE shifted to the 9mm in the first place). So all of that being said a 9mm would be completely, grossly, unbelievably inadequate for bears even in high doses; after all they are not that great on humans....there is alway the 1 in 1 trillion shot that some incredibly LUCKY person could stop a bear with a paperclip and an elastic band but thats another argument
 
The Goose said:
Geez, now that the 9mm vs. .45 debate has been beaten to death we've moved on to the 9mm vs. bear debate.
Click to expand...

I've found the 9mm vs. Bear topic to be my favorite threads since I've been reading here. I love it.

I'm thinking about a trip to the Gates of the Arctic National Park in Alaska in 2011. I wonder what's a good handgun against a POLAR bear? Those guys are big and aggressive. They would eat a black bear for an appetizer.
 
i worked at logan as a baggage conveyor mechanic. a can of bear spray was destroyed by the conveyor system. at least a few people went to the er that day.
 
I would like to watch a bear perform a proctological exploration on someone silly enough to bring a nine to a bear fight.
 
Last edited:
The best way to defend against a bear attack is not with a firearm. Bears are heavy and sluggish and can not mount a proper defense against a skilled fighter trained in Krav Maga or Mixed Martial Arts. This is related to joint structure, tendon attachment and other more technical reasons.

Additionally, man's superior brain enables him to create a diversion.

See this video as a man defends a bear attack.


Click here
 
In case any of you are interested, we just got a shipment of Hornady 9mm Critical Defense - should be perfect for marauding killer black bears, (that polymer tip is supposed to be good for clothing, so why no fur too?). For you intrepid explorers who like to travel light, we have it in .380 as well....
 
Cato said:
The best way to defend against a bear attack is not with a firearm. Bears are heavy and sluggish and can not mount a proper defense against a skilled fighter trained in Krav Maga or Mixed Martial Arts. This is related to joint structure, tendon attachment and other more technical reasons.

Additionally, man's superior brain enables him to create a diversion.

See this video as a man defends a bear attack.


Click here
Click to expand...
I have pee in my shoe![rofl]
 
JohnM said:
I've found the 9mm vs. Bear topic to be my favorite threads since I've been reading here. I love it.

I'm thinking about a trip to the Gates of the Arctic National Park in Alaska in 2011. I wonder what's a good handgun against a POLAR bear? Those guys are big and aggressive. They would eat a black bear for an appetizer.
Click to expand...

I think a Howdah pistol would do the trick.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

WWYD.. bear edition
2 3
Replies
67
Views
1K
chris_1001
chris_1001
Bear Creek Arsenal
2
Replies
31
Views
903
greencobra
greencobra
Civil War-era cannonball found in backyard of Virginia home: 'Could still be a live ordnance'
Replies
9
Views
305
Dennis in MA
Dennis in MA
post trump, covid vax family relations: conservatives vs liberals
3 4 5
Replies
130
Views
3K
67ray
67ray
War on Guns: Biden Commerce Dept. Will Make Small Arms Export Pause Permanent
Replies
4
Views
206
DarkJoker33
DarkJoker33
Back
Top Bottom