Mass-diver
NES Member
This is a classic liberal argument used for taking away people's rights. Pretty depressing stuff to read
![[sad]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/004.gif "Sad [sad]")
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Zero Hour turns in pipe bomb builder
- Thread starter Martlet
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This is a classic liberal argument used for taking away people's rights. Pretty depressing stuff to read
This is a classic liberal argument used for taking away people's rights. Pretty depressing stuff to read
Yeah... I'm a liberal, right. Let me remind you of something.... we're f***ing talking about PIPE BOMBS NOT skate boards. I suppose in your world we don't need rules or laws for anything huh? Yeah... that would be just pissa.
So since we've established the legality of their actions doesn't dictate your willingness, or unwillingness, to support someone, what does?
You don't want him using pipe bombs because you're afraid he'll hurt himself and be a burden to you, yet you support smoking and fatties, but not real fatty smokers even though that's legal too. You sound a little confused.
Of course they aren't. It's easier to have others do it for you. 200 years ago drunks and bums died on the street. Now, we support them, let them breed, then support MORE of them. What a great idea.
You sound like one. Only they say "we're talking GUNS not butter knives." The argument is the same.
Producer
NES Member
Hmmmm..Sad to see that peoples opinions are a "waste of time"....![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
No MassMark, respectfully, your opinion and the others are valued. Its that your not going to change mine. I will formulate my final opinion when I walk into Zero Arms and ask what happened.
I may even say to Mr. Sheppard "I get drunk and make booms." It will be embarrassing when the police get to my house to find only legal firearms and my nasty "summer ale brew" beer farts.
Yes there is a line to be drawn.
Mass-diver
NES Member
I don't use insurance premiums as a rationale for law making. I think government waste, not payouts to handless idiots, is the main reason our taxes our so out of control.
Which could you do more damge with: a homemade PIPE BOMB or an M1A with a handful of mags and a case of .308s?
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
If you expect a visit from the gendarmerie, I'd load up on Haffenreffer or Heineken. Much larger kill radius.
I don't believe I said it is THE rationale I use.... I said I had a problem with this... just an example. I'd love to sit around shoot the crap with you and Martlet about this stuff someday... it's interesting. But I just can't keep up with the typing part.
Exactly...Excellent point. How may folks did Mr. Ambrose hurt with his hobby anyway?
As I pointed out, your points don't really make sense to me. I can't find a basis for them. It's almost as though you accept or oppose behavior based on your personal feelings.
Mass-diver
NES Member
Yup, that was my point. Just like a car, a knife, etc, etc.
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Bottom line, people saying Jim should have done nothing are crazy and harbor anarchist-like tendencies.
How would your conscience feel if you knew the info Jim did, said nothing and then the dude blew up his house and killed his kids in the process? My guess, like a douchebag. Again, that is only a guess but any feelings that are different are categorized in my first sentence.![[pot]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/037.gif "Stir the pot [pot]")
How would your conscience feel if you knew the info Jim did, said nothing and then the dude blew up his house and killed his kids in the process? My guess, like a douchebag. Again, that is only a guess but any feelings that are different are categorized in my first sentence.
I've read all 497 posts, and darned if I'm not getting a stong feeling of deja vu. Have we already run through all the pros and cons of bomb making and reporting illegal activity? Or is there a new perspective about to burst forth onto the scene?
Hope springs eternal ...
Hope springs eternal ...
I would say the difference is that the pipe bombs are not legal in this state and most likely all others where a M1A and 7.62 ammo is legal in all fifty states. The potential for damage on almost any item depends of the intent of the user. I'm sure we could all come up with thousands of items that could be just as deadly. What I would wonder is, what is the volatility of a pipe bomb. Possibly a static charge could set it off. Who knows. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject.
Wow...this topics up to fifty pages. Must be a new record......
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So, before I go back to my charts, (joy), can I establish the following?
There's little doubt that Mr. Ambrose made some poor choices. Obviously, alcohol and explosives are a poor mix, (as are alcohol and guns, chainsaws, cars, javelins etc.). It's also clear that this has been a hobby of his for quite some time - most of his life. There has been nothing established that Mr. Ambrose was in any way making threats toward his family, himself or the citizenry at large. He was essentially a frequent flyer on the alcohol plane, liked to make pipe bombs, ride an ATV, live his life, run his business, shoot his guns, (apparently even at himself) and also was fond of spending his money at Zero Hour Arms. In fact, it would seem he had some sort of friendship - even if it was purely fiscal.
There's also little doubt that Mr. Sheppard felt comfortable enough with the quirky and drunk Mr. Ambrose to not only do business with him, but to enter into an outside business arrangement and go over to Mikes home. It's also pretty obvious that Jim felt it was his responsibility to pull the pin on the grenade which has essentially ruined this guys life....
Again, I do not blame Jim Sheppard - not one bit, for the predicament that Mr. Ambrose is in right now. Ultimately, Mikes behavior and choice of hobby are what led him to the spot he's in. What does concern me though is the possible lack of thought on the part of Jim as to alternatives available other than dropping a dime...
PS/EDIT: Nice point bostonasphalt - I am not one who will say Jim should have done nothing , but I think the "something" he did may have been a not to well thought out choice...
There's little doubt that Mr. Ambrose made some poor choices. Obviously, alcohol and explosives are a poor mix, (as are alcohol and guns, chainsaws, cars, javelins etc.). It's also clear that this has been a hobby of his for quite some time - most of his life. There has been nothing established that Mr. Ambrose was in any way making threats toward his family, himself or the citizenry at large. He was essentially a frequent flyer on the alcohol plane, liked to make pipe bombs, ride an ATV, live his life, run his business, shoot his guns, (apparently even at himself) and also was fond of spending his money at Zero Hour Arms. In fact, it would seem he had some sort of friendship - even if it was purely fiscal.
There's also little doubt that Mr. Sheppard felt comfortable enough with the quirky and drunk Mr. Ambrose to not only do business with him, but to enter into an outside business arrangement and go over to Mikes home. It's also pretty obvious that Jim felt it was his responsibility to pull the pin on the grenade which has essentially ruined this guys life....
Again, I do not blame Jim Sheppard - not one bit, for the predicament that Mr. Ambrose is in right now. Ultimately, Mikes behavior and choice of hobby are what led him to the spot he's in. What does concern me though is the possible lack of thought on the part of Jim as to alternatives available other than dropping a dime...
PS/EDIT: Nice point bostonasphalt - I am not one who will say Jim should have done nothing , but I think the "something" he did may have been a not to well thought out choice...
Bottom line, people saying Jim should have done nothing are crazy and harbor anarchist-like tendencies.
How would your conscience feel if you knew the info Jim did, said nothing and then the dude blew up his house and killed his kids in the process? My guess, like a douchebag. Again, that is only a guess but any feelings that are different are categorized in my first sentence.
Jim felt ok with him driving his 6 year old around drunk, buying firearms and ammo, giving the guy money, but not owning a pipe bomb?
Where's the disconnect?
icyclefar
NES Member
Bottom line, people saying Jim should have done nothing are crazy and harbor anarchist-like tendencies.
How would your conscience feel if you knew the info Jim did, said nothing and then the dude blew up his house and killed his kids in the process? My guess, like a douchebag. Again, that is only a guess but any feelings that are different are categorized in my first sentence.
Plus one rep point for you!
icyclefar
NES Member
I'm not sure we can make those assumptions .............
Perhaps those are questions that you should ask him directly.
Ya,he wouldn't have a biased opinion now would he ?
You were born to live forever in MA,please,don't ever leave this state.
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Why can't we make those assumptions?
He saw him drunk with his year old......yet didn't call the cops.
He did business with him in his shop.
He DROVE TO HIS HOUSE to do side business with him.
What part am I missing?
ETA: Why do you sign your + rep points but not your negative? What dangerous behavior am I supporting? Are you nuts? You sound like a liberal. That's the same argument they use for taking your guns.
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icyclefar
NES Member
The part where you assume he was O.K. with it. Not to mention, none of us really know the time line involved here.
as far as rep points go ............. I have signed every one I've ever given, (I think 3 or 4 to date) and they have all been positive.
Let's see - what other actions short of dropping a dime could Jim have taken:
What Jim chose to do was play protectorate of the masses and inform the police on someone whom he at the very least had a casual friendship with. If Jim feels he's saved the lives of the innocent by his actions then I guess he'll have to live with the fact that he didn't quite save the life of Mike Ambrose. For all intents and purposes - his life is ruined - it's over Johnny. Business = gone. Reputation = gone. Freedom = gone. Wife = ? Family = ?
You can bet your bottom dollar that the DA will have a field day with this and the press? Forget about it. "Another whacked out gun owner in Massachusetts". Think this won't have repercussions for all of us? Wake the hell up - it's one more nail in our collective coffins. Mike Ambrose screwed up - no question, but now he's all done - over. Would the alternatives have given fruit? Maybe - maybe not. One thing is for sure however - we will never ever know, because Jim Sheppard didn't take a breath and take the time to think about any...
For what it's worth, I don't hold Jim in the same regard as another infamous FFL. In all likelihood, Jim is a great guy who made some poor choices. Unfortunately, we're not talking about new Glocks or mailorder ammo - we're talking about a guy who just had his entire life turned upside down and will likely be doing serious time....For what?
- Talked directly to Mike about his behavior with his child and concerns over his alcohol and subsequent bomb use.
- Talked directly to Mikes wife about his concern for their safety and her husbands use of alcohol and explosives
- Sought out Mikes friends and relatives and hopefully persuade them to intervene
What Jim chose to do was play protectorate of the masses and inform the police on someone whom he at the very least had a casual friendship with. If Jim feels he's saved the lives of the innocent by his actions then I guess he'll have to live with the fact that he didn't quite save the life of Mike Ambrose. For all intents and purposes - his life is ruined - it's over Johnny. Business = gone. Reputation = gone. Freedom = gone. Wife = ? Family = ?
You can bet your bottom dollar that the DA will have a field day with this and the press? Forget about it. "Another whacked out gun owner in Massachusetts". Think this won't have repercussions for all of us? Wake the hell up - it's one more nail in our collective coffins. Mike Ambrose screwed up - no question, but now he's all done - over. Would the alternatives have given fruit? Maybe - maybe not. One thing is for sure however - we will never ever know, because Jim Sheppard didn't take a breath and take the time to think about any...
For what it's worth, I don't hold Jim in the same regard as another infamous FFL. In all likelihood, Jim is a great guy who made some poor choices. Unfortunately, we're not talking about new Glocks or mailorder ammo - we're talking about a guy who just had his entire life turned upside down and will likely be doing serious time....For what?
According to his lawyer, for not lowering the price of an ATV.
God I hope that isn't true...
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I would like to say that Martlet has logic in his responce,but I can't.Anyone who believes that making pipe bombs has any legit reason is flawed.There is no doubt in my mind that some kind of payback was in his mind.
So, you're saying Derek is a terrorist and a liar?
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