You can transport your guns in the car

[dcmdon]

Ever since I've been in MA people have told me that my guns needed to be in a locked case and in the trunk if they weren't "in my immediate control".

This is wrong.

according to 140:131c it either has to be in a locked case OR in a locked trunk.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. "

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container.

So based on the statute, the large capacity rifle/shotgun can be:

1) unloaded and in a locked case in the passenger compartment
2) unloaded with no case requirements provided its in a locked trunk

And a non-large capacity rifle/shotgun can be anywhere in the car, unlocked and uncased, so long as its not loaded.


Just thought I'd help dispel a common myth.

Don

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yup, but out of sight is out of mind and likely to NOT raise ugly questions by any officer who happens to spot something that looks like it could be a gun bag.

I always tell folks the law and then give my personal recommendation to keep them covered or out of sight (trunk) at all times.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Yup, but out of sight is out of mind and likely to NOT raise ugly questions by any officer who happens to spot something that looks like it could be a gun bag.

I always tell folks the law and then give my personal recommendation to keep them covered or out of sight (trunk) at all times.

It's called getting lost in a crowd of one.

 

[dcmdon]

Yup, but out of sight is out of mind and likely to NOT raise ugly questions by any officer who happens to spot something that looks like it could be a gun bag.

I always tell folks the law and then give my personal recommendation to keep them covered or out of sight (trunk) at all times.

Len and Rob what you guys say makes sense. But I'm really trying to stress the law here. Most people give out the wrong advice.

I happen to agree with most of what you've said. For me the practical benefit of this realization is that if the gun is in the trunk, it doesn't need to be locked. Which was news to me. Everyone said it had to be in a locked case and in the trunk. When in reality it has to be in a locked case OR in the trunk.

The only time I deviate from an unlocked soft case in the trunk is if I'm running to the range quickly to test something and I've got a small handgun bag with a couple of mags and 50 rds of ammo. Then I just put it on the passenger seat next to me. Its under my direct control so its not locked. (Just like a woman's purse).

In CT I never shied away from contact with a LEO while I was exercising my rights.

In MA, I've come to realize that firearm ownership is not a right. So I've throttled things back.

Don

 

[fencer]

No trunk in my pick em up truck, so they go in a locked hard case on the back seat... under a blanket... with stuffed animals on top wearing sunglasses.

 

[CrackPot]

I have owned cars for over 30 years. I have had zero lockable trunks. Pickups, hatchbacks, folding back seats,, vans, etc...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[dcmdon]

I've tried to keep one vehicle in the group that had a lockable trunk, specifically for the safe transport of firearms. I'm not talking legal since in CT you can transport any way you want as long as long guns are unloaded, but sometimes the wife wants you to stop at the grocery store on the way home from the range or hunting or some time you have guns. I'm pretty uptight about leaving guns in a car, so a sedan or something like that is always useful. Even my wifes (pre-children) Miata worked great.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don,

No I tell people that LEGALLY (in MA):

- You can throw your low capacity long guns in a rifle rack in the back of your pickup, throw them on the back seat of your car, etc. (just must be unloaded),
- You can throw ANY unloaded gun (handgun, large-cap rifles/shotguns) loose in your locked trunk,
- However you won't like the undesired attention you will get with the first option above (and no most cops in MA are unaware that this is legal),
- The second option will likely damage your gun and you may not want to do this, but again, it's legal. Also again many cops may not realize this.

Keep in mind at my Hunter Ed class a few months ago, the EPO told everyone that to transport low capacity long guns in a MV either required a locked hard case or if it was a soft case it required a trigger lock! Neither is true, but this is what many LEOs believe. Thus, the desire to keep everything hidden from view and avoid conflict with potentially ignorant people.

 

[dcmdon]

For some of us, the ability to throw a zippered soft case in the trunk and go is useful. Locks are a pain. I don't even own any hard cases other than the heavy ones I use for airline travel.

This matters to me because it means that I can continue to transport guns the way I used to in CT, in unlocked soft cases and bags. I also think that you will agree that if these bags are in the trunk they will not draw undue attention.

Don

 

[IPSC_DRL]

I have been telling people for years that the locked trunk of a car meets the requirements for transport. I learned that fro either Mr. Boudrie, Scrivener, or both.

 

[DrNVP]

what if the backseats can fold down like in most modern sedans?

 

[drgrant]

The locked case and locked trunk thing is just toilet paper on the seat, Don. Thats why people advise it.

In MA "fly low and stay under the radar" is the watch word. Many LEOs in MA don't know firearm law from their backside, so it's best to not get them thinking about it to begin with.

-Mike

 

[dcmdon]

what if the backseats can fold down like in most modern sedans?

Many modern sedans have a way to disable the release, or require you to be in the trunk to unlock it in the first place.

 

[dcmdon]

The locked case and locked trunk thing is just toilet paper on the seat, Don. Thats why people advise it.

In MA "fly low and stay under the radar" is the watch word. Many LEOs in MA don't know firearm law from their backside, so it's best to not get them thinking about it to
-Mike

I have to keep reminding myself its a privelige in this state.

Well at least I have memories of refusing to show a cop ID while shooting my MG to cling to.

 

[jasons]

Len and Rob what you guys say makes sense. But I'm really trying to stress the law here. Most people give out the wrong advice.

I happen to agree with most of what you've said. For me the practical benefit of this realization is that if the gun is in the trunk, it doesn't need to be locked. Which was news to me. Everyone said it had to be in a locked case and in the trunk. When in reality it has to be in a locked case OR in the trunk.

The only time I deviate from an unlocked soft case in the trunk is if I'm running to the range quickly to test something and I've got a small handgun bag with a couple of mags and 50 rds of ammo. Then I just put it on the passenger seat next to me. Its under my direct control so its not locked. (Just like a woman's purse).

In CT I never shied away from contact with a LEO while I was exercising my rights.

In MA, I've come to realize that firearm ownership is not a right. So I've throttled things back.

Don

1. You've been around this long and you're just now figuring this out?
2. Who is this "most people" / "everyone?"

 

[Len-2A Training]

what if the backseats can fold down like in most modern sedans?

Depends . . .

If access from within the car requires a key, it's legal. If access is by merely pulling the seat forward or pulling up a pin, it wouldn't be considered a "locked trunk". Many cars use a key on the top rear deck to pull down the seats, thus it is a locked trunk.

 

[SteelShooter]

I keep mine in a lockable hard case golf travel bag, never have to worry about any questions from prying eyes when I'm driving my SUV.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Don,

No I tell people that LEGALLY (in MA):

- You can throw your low capacity long guns in a rifle rack in the back of your pickup, throw them on the back seat of your car, etc. (just must be unloaded),
- You can throw ANY unloaded gun (handgun, large-cap rifles/shotguns) loose in your locked trunk,
- However you won't like the undesired attention you will get with the first option above (and no most cops in MA are unaware that this is legal),
- The second option will likely damage your gun and you may not want to do this, but again, it's legal. Also again many cops may not realize this.

Keep in mind at my Hunter Ed class a few months ago, the EPO told everyone that to transport low capacity long guns in a MV either required a locked hard case or if it was a soft case it required a trigger lock! Neither is true, but this is what many LEOs believe. Thus, the desire to keep everything hidden from view and avoid conflict with potentially ignorant people.

Len, you and Glidden need to get with John Scheft and see if he can make this an in-service training point. Scheft's criminal law text book leaves much to be desired when it comes to explains the transportation and storage statutes.

 

[dcmdon]

1. You've been around this long and you're just now figuring this out?
2. Who is this "most people" / "everyone?"

Jason - I've been around a while, but I'm new to MA.

Everyone - gun club, gun shop, police. As is my standard practice, I don't believe any of them, but take the most conservative route until I actually get a chance to look at the law. Which I did, and then I started this thread.

- - - Updated - - -

Depends . . .

If access from within the car requires a key, it's legal. If access is by merely pulling the seat forward or pulling up a pin, it wouldn't be considered a "locked trunk". Many cars use a key on the top rear deck to pull down the seats, thus it is a locked trunk.

In my car, the seat release is from inside the trunk. So it accomplishes the same thing, in a different way.

 

[dcmdon]

Obie - the thing that has amazed me most since moving here is how people can get railroaded into charges when they are in full compliance with the law. In some cases they were in compliance with the spirit of the law, but got wrapped up in some complexity that caused them to break the letter of the law.

Brookline - he let his FID expire. Even though it was issued to him as a lifetime FID. Cops rolled in, took his thumbhole stocked AKs and standard ammo, proclaimed they had taken "cop killer bullets" off the street. Charged him with felonies based on some fake silencers and the fact that they had no records of some of his guns. Even though they were acquired before 98. When he could have purchased long guns out of state with no requirement to inform the state.

Lowell - The guy built a concrete and steel vault for his guns. But that wasn't enough. So they found a fire code violation to charge him with.

What amazes me most is not actually the arrests. Cops get spun up in the heat of a situation and make mistakes. Many of them don't know firearms laws very well. But when the prosecutors continue on with what is clearly a bad arrest, its just something I've never seen before.

 

[jasons]

Many of them don't know firearms laws very well.

Given the "interpretations" they hear and read from "experts" it's really not hard to understand why...

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len, you and Glidden need to get with John Scheft and see if he can make this an in-service training point. Scheft's criminal law text book leaves much to be desired when it comes to explains the transportation and storage statutes.

Obie, back when John Scheft got the Byrne Grant to come up with a plan to revise all LE training in the state (late 2006), I spent a lot of time with him discussing current police academy training practices and what I thought it should be (after reaching out to a friend who was an academy director for a sanity check of my thoughts). He didn't want to discuss firearms training specifically as his charter was much broader than that. After it was over (I have a copy of his report at my desk) he suggested that perhaps I could teach with him. I jumped at the idea, but nothing ever became of it.

The whole "who is certified to teach at the academy" thing is an enigma to me. From listening to a friend/gun shop owner it seems that you must be "sponsored" by a PD and almost all (Scheft is the only one I know that isn't a PO TTBOMK) must be FT PO when certified. My friend was a FT PO in a major slum city and "lost" his certification when he retired from the PD. MPTC told him that he needed to be sponsored by his old PD to keep his certification and said PD wouldn't do it either for political reasons or worries about "liability", not sure which.

If you know a way into that "inner circle", I'm all ears but I know that my chief wouldn't give me the time of day, so department sponsorship is out. John Scheft knows that I know my stuff and we spent many hours on the phone together, Emails and I sent him >10 pages of comments and notes on his drafts for the Byrne Grant (which ran from 2006 to ~2008). I haven't spoken to him in a few years at this point. I found him to be a likable person and easy to work with.

 

[namedpipes]

Depends . . .

If access from within the car requires a key, it's legal. If access is by merely pulling the seat forward or pulling up a pin, it wouldn't be considered a "locked trunk". Many cars use a key on the top rear deck to pull down the seats, thus it is a locked trunk.

How many cars (having trunks) manufactured the past 20 years lack a trunk release button on the dash or in the glove box? I suppose if it's in the glove box and *that* is locked, you're safe...

 

[Len-2A Training]

In my car, the seat release is from inside the trunk. So it accomplishes the same thing, in a different way.

Every car TTBOMK must have trunk or seat releases inside the trunk. This was a mandate due to kidnappings (in the trunk) and leaving the person to die there with no way out (I guess most never could find the tire iron and us it as a pry bar). The releases within the car are there strictly to allow owner to put longer items in the trunk (skis, etc.) and as long as they use a key, it keeps the trunk within the law as a "locked container".

Don, DAs in MA are elected via our "one party system" and don't have to know anything about criminal law. In most cases they aspire to higher levels in gov't and have mastered the press conference bully pulpit to get there. Also they wear down the people arrested (for no good reason) in legal fees, keeping in limbo for years on end (suspended/fired from job, no resolution of case means you can't get a new job, you live off meager savings) . . . until such time the DA comes riding by as a "shiny knight in armor" offering a "deal" where you admit to the crime, have a record for life, he gets a "win", and you can move on in your life such as it is with a criminal record!

It's real easy to see when you look at our system and how corrupt it is.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Obie - the thing that has amazed me most since moving here is how people can get railroaded into charges when they are in full compliance with the law. In some cases they were in compliance with the spirit of the law, but got wrapped up in some complexity that caused them to break the letter of the law.

Brookline - he let his FID expire. Even though it was issued to him as a lifetime FID. Cops rolled in, took his thumbhole stocked AKs and standard ammo, proclaimed they had taken "cop killer bullets" off the street. Charged him with felonies based on some fake silencers and the fact that they had no records of some of his guns. Even though they were acquired before 98. When he could have purchased long guns out of state with no requirement to inform the state.

Lowell - The guy built a concrete and steel vault for his guns. But that wasn't enough. So they found a fire code violation to charge him with.

What amazes me most is not actually the arrests. Cops get spun up in the heat of a situation and make mistakes. Many of them don't know firearms laws very well. But when the prosecutors continue on with what is clearly a bad arrest, its just something I've never seen before.

Absolutely right. Two things control 90% of the decisions law enforcment makes: 1) Perception of possible liability and 2) expected public perception of the police (in)action. Guns are no exception.

Most police leaders want to do something--anything--so it appears to the liberal sheeple that they're doing something against evil guns. To me, that was front and center in the Lowell case. It was the government's way of saying "You have no need to have this many guns, and we need to make it look as if we're doing something in response to what most people think is a creepy hobby."

You will never see me disagree that it's totally out of control, only with the remedy of how to fix it--which I believe lies with the courts and legislative process. Use the risk of perceived liability against the police. That's the only way to fix it, which is why I so heavily believe in Comm2A's mission.

 

[cflshooter]

I know this has been discussed before but since there is an active thread....is an "unloaded" rifle still considered unloaded if there are loaded mags for that rifle in that locked trunk or locked case?

 

[Another_David]

I was at a gun store once and the guy selling me the shotty says, "you have a lock in your car for this, right?" And I replied, "of course... there's one on each front door and one on the trunk--that's three locks." He wasn't amused with my reply.

 

[Rick Roma]

Len and Rob what you guys say makes sense. But I'm really trying to stress the law here. Most people give out the wrong advice.

I happen to agree with most of what you've said. For me the practical benefit of this realization is that if the gun is in the trunk, it doesn't need to be locked. Which was news to me. Everyone said it had to be in a locked case and in the trunk. When in reality it has to be in a locked case OR in the trunk.

The only time I deviate from an unlocked soft case in the trunk is if I'm running to the range quickly to test something and I've got a small handgun bag with a couple of mags and 50 rds of ammo. Then I just put it on the passenger seat next to me. Its under my direct control so its not locked. (Just like a woman's purse).

In CT I never shied away from contact with a LEO while I was exercising my rights.

In MA, I've come to realize that firearm ownership is not a right. So I've throttled things back.

Don

Direct control is not defined under the law. You're really rolling the dice there. My undersdtanding is most LEOs consider direct control to mean on your person. Do yourself a favor and lock that bag or keep it in the trunk.

 

[MisterHappy]

I know this has been discussed before but since there is an active thread....is an "unloaded" rifle still considered unloaded if there are loaded mags for that rifle in that locked trunk or locked case?

This is one point that at least is clear in Mass Law. It's unloaded if there is no ammo in the gun. If it's next to the gun, it's still unloaded.

Now, Massprudence ( a new word I just made up - see definition below) might indicate keeping it separate.


Massprudence n. ( portmanteau of Massachusetts and Prudence) the condition of actively exceeding the required minimums of law, to avoid potential complications arising from a poor understanding of the law on the part of police and other members of the Law Enforcement and Judicial systems, esp. relating to firearms laws.

 

[namedpipes]

Massprudence n. ( portmanteau of Massachusetts and Prudence) the condition of actively exceeding the required minimums of law, to avoid potential complications arising from a poor understanding of the law on the part of police and other members of the Law Enforcement and Judicial systems, esp. relating to firearms laws.

My issue with Massprudence is that this self imposed lower standard of living eventually becomes defacto law, much like the "law" against open carry in Mass.

Still, not a bad policy on an individual basis and one that I follow.