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What do after shooting someone in selfdefense.
- Thread starter joseph
- Start date
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
Search warrant - they confiscate all computers in the home, cell phone, etc. and forensically examine contents for access to social media, then scour all your posts.
Watch the lengthy YouTube video by Steven Rambam called "Privacy is Dead" where he explains it in great detail. He's an internationally known PI and very good at what he does. He asked for a volunteer at one of his presentations and with scant little info was able to paint an accurate and complete picture of the guy.
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
Search warrant for the victim of a home break in? Thats down right low life BS
A serious answer.
How do the police know that this isn't just a home invasion, but perhaps something that started elsewhere and moved to the house? Homeowner could have baited the person and then claimed self-defense, etc.
A thorough investigation is just that. Sometimes things aren't as they seem on the surface. So LE tries to see if there is a pre-disposition to kill (often reflected here on NES by members), prior run-in with same person, etc. Anything found will be used against you in court, count on it.
When you see video of a crime scene, you see police walking out with boxes/bags/computers/etc. That's what they do.
I recently had a case where the defendant was assaulted. Other guy (who got the better of the fight) claimed he heard gunshots and that there were bullet holes in his car. Police got a warrant and searched home looking for gun, but finding marijuana plants. Defendant is charged with A&B and cultivation of marijuana.
Freedom: when you can't go online and crack jokes with friendly people for fear of the .gov boot. Idk, I wouldn't outright threaten anyone but jokes about burying bodies? Shrug.
Note that I am not disagreeing with you, Len.
What do you think, that if you don't ask for an attorney they will just let you walk out and maybe buy you some ice cream.
People, stop being so delusional, what part of STFU and ASK FOR AN ATTORNEY don't you get?
You are going to get detained.
Cops ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS.
You are in MA, you probably broke a law by waking up this morning.
The one piece of advice I will add is: LOCK YOUR PUPPY...before the cops shoot it.
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You forgot to add, "in a bulletproof container". A few years ago in the midwest on a raid the police killed some guy's dog that was
still in a cage. IN A CAGE. [sad2]
-Mike
You may be joking but think like a prosecutor who gets measured on convictions! How do you think he'd portray that info to a judge or jury???
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
Would it be correct to say, it all depends on where in Mass you live? On what happens?
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That's just wrong on all levels !
I hear you and am not disagreeing. But, I guess I missed the part where we swore under the pains and penalties of perjury that we will always represent ourselves in a truthful manner, not lie and respond to any thread in a serious manner on this forum without cracking dark jokes.
No.
MSP Troopers assigned to the county DA's office investigate all potential homicides in MA with the exception of a handful of cities with tons of their own homicides . . . enough that they have their own homicide squads (Boston, likely Brockton, likely Springfield, etc.). So the people investigating your SD shooting are not the run of the mill cops that you normally see on the street, but an elite homicide squad. They also get measured on "results" (arrests that stick), so don't expect much in the "benefit of the doubt" category.
So after your "friend the cop" arrives at the scene and determines that their is a body or severely wounded suspect, the PD calls in the MSP Troopers to take over the investigation.
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You can do so, but at your own peril. Remember "The Police Are NOT Your Friends!"
Shark_Cage
NES Member
Reload
I would add only because I hadn't seen it yet, maybe I missed it, and it's the last thing that you'll want to do at the time, but if you have shot an attacker and he is not dead, even if you have no prior medical training, do your best to "attempt" life saving procedures. Even if that's just using a rag and putting pressure on the wound. Never, never, never, say I'm sorry, or apologize, or say I didn't mean to. Ever. Punch yourself in the dick before ever uttering those words in an attack. You're not sorry, you're glad you're still alive, and you also tried to save your attacker. See where I'm going with this?
This will go a long way in showing that you didn't want to kill anybody, you were forced to shoot, and in fact tried to save your attacker after the fact, as any good citizen would be expected to do. So sayeth the court.
Seriously, yes it will suck, but I think it will help you in the long run, even if the attacker does not survive. I've seen guys shot multiple times, enough to kill a ****ing horse, and they lived, so don't be fooled by your own delusions that during that attack you're going to be John Wick.
This will go a long way in showing that you didn't want to kill anybody, you were forced to shoot, and in fact tried to save your attacker after the fact, as any good citizen would be expected to do. So sayeth the court.
Seriously, yes it will suck, but I think it will help you in the long run, even if the attacker does not survive. I've seen guys shot multiple times, enough to kill a ****ing horse, and they lived, so don't be fooled by your own delusions that during that attack you're going to be John Wick.
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Last I knew Boston, Springfield and Worcester were the only cities that investigate their own homicides. Unless recently assigned, the MSP DA investigators are very experienced and generally fairly competent. Local authorities will assist, but for all practical purposes the MSP will take the lead in the majority of homicide cases in the Commonwealth.
I suggest that taking an appropriate course in shooting aftermath be taken. If not possible then read Massad Ayoob's book in the Gravest Extreme. I know some get annoyed with Ayoob and one person here refers to some of his writings derisively but Ayoob has 35 years of expert witness testimony in self defense cases. The book is old but relevant. Re-read it from time to time.
I'll respectfully disagree. Everything I've read and been told is to keep your distance from the perp. If he revives, he will likely turn on you and try to kill you/grab your gun, so you put yourself in harms way by doing that. Also who needs whatever pathogens might be in his blood. We don't usually have nitrile gloves on our belt/in our pockets as LE/EMS do.
911 - What is your emergency?
Um... I just shot and killed a guy who attacked me.
Are you sure he's dead.
BANG. - Yeah, he's dead.
What you don't follow the advice in Unintended Consequences?![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
nah, someone actually did that recently, and they found bones and dna all over the pig pen. need to be move inventive than that!
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hence my original post, the shallow grave...![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
There was a school of thought in the early 80's that said you should render first aid as it showed intent that you were not the aggressor and paint a better picture for yourself if you go to trial. This is no longer considered relevant thinking for the reasons you cited Len.
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
Thanks for the info Len.
I believe this is the best advice there is.
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This advice also illustrates the need to (a) have an attorney present when being interrogated and (b) knowing how to articulate facts. For example, if asked "why did you carry a 45" don't answer "because they don't make a 46", and if asked "what did he have on his mind when you shot him?" the answer not "165 gr JHP", but "I don't know, I just know I was in grave danger", etc.
Seriously, answers like Len's for "why did you not render first aid" go down better than "I just shot the mo-fo, why would I help him?"
A couple of relevant publications:
https://www.amazon.com/Criminal-Int...&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=the+reid+method+inbauu
This is an oldie, and has some obsolete advice regarding telling the suspect that "only guilty people need an attorney" (it was written pre-Miranda), but gives an idea of the techniques such as befriending you to get info that can be used to obtain the maximum penalty under the law that will be used against you. I was fortunate enough to have a cop loan me his copy since he thought it would be an interesting read. It was.
A newer classic is "You have the right to remain innocent" (https://www.amazon.com/You-Have-Rig...eywords=you+have+the+right+to+remain+innocent) and explains how the courts have eroded this right, and how you can only obtain the full protection of the 5th if you exercise the right in the proper manner at the proper time. It even explains why you should not listen to the cops if they say "You don't need to say anything, just let us explain our understanding of how it went down" (your body language and reactions can be used as "testimony" even if you don't say word - and don't get caught acting too nervous or too calm as both reactions have been used against suspects).
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Rob's first reference is for the Reid Technique. I took that class at the Police Academy and watched a demo with the "suspect" being a volunteer FT PO. It was very eye-opening, extremely effective in getting a confession even from an innocent person when applied properly.
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
Let's just say that it is the mental equivalent of interrogating someone with a rubber hose!
Good points Len and Mark, maybe I'm dating myself with my post, but am I the only one that keeps gloves and an IFAK in my car? I don't know, I think big picture and try to think of the befores and afters of every action I may be forced to take. If it was me I'd still try to save the person. Some here may think it's weak or just have the F them let them die attitude, personally I'd do what I can, pray for the best and hopefully if I've done everything I can that I think is the right thing to do, my coffee will still taste just as good the next day.
There's been days when it hasn't.
If we are thinking about human behavior, human emotional reactions while watching videos of shootings, even just on here, and how many people are quick to say "look at him, just standing there while the guy is dying" or "why isn't he giving the guy any aid?"
These are the same immediate emotional reactions a jury will have if/when they're listening to witness statements or viewing security camera footage of a shoot. I'd rather get ahead of that and do what I can.
I think, and it's just my personal opinion, which is worth jack and shit when it comes down to it, but if you're prepared to take a life in self defense, you should also be prepared to save a life at any given moment. To me they go hand in hand.
These are the same immediate emotional reactions a jury will have if/when they're listening to witness statements or viewing security camera footage of a shoot. I'd rather get ahead of that and do what I can.
I think, and it's just my personal opinion, which is worth jack and shit when it comes down to it, but if you're prepared to take a life in self defense, you should also be prepared to save a life at any given moment. To me they go hand in hand.
