Warning shots are not helping anyone

terraformer

terraformer

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Please, no warning shots. Warning shots are a construct of hollywood and the Coast Guard. If you are neither a hypocrite anti-gun actor making their living playing with gun or a coastie, you have no business firing warning shots.

And if you are respecting YOUR 5th Amendment rights, then the cops will never know shots that missed were warning shots.

Any shot fired is a reflection of deadly force. If you are clear to use deadly force and choose to fire warning shots, then you will be in a position where the ADA will argue a) you weren't in need of deadly force to protect yourself and b) that the deadly force you used was therefore an assault/battery without justification. The other guys lawyer will claim in a civil trial that you were c) negligent in your use of the firearm and d) reckless in your application of force.

No warning shots. If you are going to rely on Hollywood to shape your notion of right & wrong or just & unjust then you are both screwed and no better than the bradyites.

BTW: This is my personal opinion and not one of any organization I may be associated with. I am not a lawyer and your lawyer may feel differently. But if you are exercising your 5th Amendment rights, then your lawyer has a choice of how to spin any missed shot.
 
When I was 17 my folks had a guy over for dinner. He was a judge. In a manner a little too forceful for the dinner table he told me to never draw a gun unless I had to use it. Never fire a warning shot and never shoot to wound. Never draw unless I needed to have a dead body in front of me.

I've always remembered that dinner.
 
cockpitbob said:
When I was 17 my folks had a guy over for dinner. He was a judge. In a manner a little too forceful for the dinner table he told me to never draw a gun unless I had to use it. Never fire a warning shot and never shoot to wound. Never draw unless I needed to have a dead body in front of me.

I've always remembered that dinner.
Click to expand...

Sounds like great advice.
 
Agreed, sound advice.

If you have enough reason to pull it, you have enough reason to shoot to STOP THE THREAT
 
terraformer said:
Please, no warning shots. Warning shots are a construct of hollywood and the Coast Guard. If you are neither a hypocrite anti-gun actor making their living playing with gun or a coastie, you have no business firing warning shots.

And if you are respecting YOUR 5th Amendment rights, then the cops will never know shots that missed were warning shots.

Any shot fired is a reflection of deadly force. If you are clear to use deadly force and choose to fire warning shots, then you will be in a position where the ADA will argue a) you weren't in need of deadly force to protect yourself and b) that the deadly force you used was therefore an assault/battery without justification. The other guys lawyer will claim in a civil trial that you were c) negligent in your use of the firearm and d) reckless in your application of force.

No warning shots. If you are going to rely on Hollywood to shape your notion of right & wrong or just & unjust then you are both screwed and no better than the bradyites.

BTW: This is my personal opinion and not one of any organization I may be associated with. I am not a lawyer and your lawyer may feel differently. But if you are exercising your 5th Amendment rights, then your lawyer has a choice of how to spin any missed shot.
Click to expand...

This.... + a billion. Nobody should EVER utter the term "warning shot" when regarding a deadly force (gun involved) confrontation with another human.

-Mike
 
Just a personal thought here, but I would never tell anyone to, nor would I shoot to kill. I shoot to stop the threat.

If I had to defend myself at trial, I would rather have the DA have to read from my statement that I fired the weapon to stop a imminent threat of injury or death than to hear him/her tell the jury " he admits he was shooting to kill" and twist my words.
 
Glockaholic said:
Just a personal thought here, but I would never tell anyone to, nor would I shoot to kill. I shoot to stop the threat.

If I had to defend myself at trial, I would rather have the DA have to read from my statement that I fired the weapon to stop a imminent threat of injury or death than to hear him/her tell the jury " he admits he was shooting to kill" and twist my words.
Click to expand...

This should never be an issue because you should never be talking to an DA or cop anyway.
 
Glockaholic said:
Just a personal thought here, but I would never tell anyone to, nor would I shoot to kill. I shoot to stop the threat.

If I had to defend myself at trial, I would rather have the DA have to read from my statement that I fired the weapon to stop a imminent threat of injury or death than to hear him/her tell the jury " he admits he was shooting to kill" and twist my words.
Click to expand...

Good advice.
 
part of the top ten gun rules aint it ? Never point a gun at anything you dont intend to kill or destroy. the other 9 the gun is ALWAYS loaded.<<<my dads version.
 
terraformer said:
Any shot fired is a reflection of deadly force. If you are clear to use deadly force and choose to fire warning shots, then you will be in a position where the ADA will argue a) you weren't in need of deadly force to protect yourself and b) that the deadly force you used was therefore an assault/battery without justification. The other guys lawyer will claim in a civil trial that you were c) negligent in your use of the firearm and d) reckless in your application of force.
Click to expand...

Not only that, but the minute you state you "fired a warning shot", you have made a statement that you assessed the situation; determined that the use of deadly force was not appropriate; and then proceeded to use deadly force. Ditto for making a statement that you "shot to wound".

In some circles, that is called a confession.
 
fencer said:
I have often wondered how many "warning shots" were just people who couldn't come to grips with shooting someone, no matter how much the target deserved it
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Good point.

I have trained myself over the last 30+ years that I would absolutely and without reservation pull the trigger if I was faced with imminent injury or death. I tell myself that often.

How does that saying go, he who hesitates is lost?

I understand the concept of Tueller, I know every gun is a threat regardless of proximity, and I understand that even though I can and will shoot to stop the threat, I will be dragged through the legal system and the court of public opinion.

I wonder if people who have received military training or have been deployed into a war zone where they have had to fire their weapon at an enemy are better able to pull the trigger without hesitation or second thought than someone like me who has no formal training.
 
Glockaholic said:
I wonder if people who have received military training or have been deployed into a war zone where they have had to fire their weapon at an enemy are better able to pull the trigger without hesitation or second thought than someone like me who has no formal training.
Click to expand...

I don't know for sure but suspect it depends on the individual. We sure did get to drill alot, and when someone else is paying for cases of ammo you get pretty comfortable with your rifle. We did not shoot alot of handgun.

I bet that someone that spends a ton of time at the range would be just as likely to draw as anyone else.

I always think of the slow motion footage of the Regan shooting. When the shots went off, there was a Secret Service agent that did this crazy, spasmo, wounded deer dance, before he pulled himself together. Here was a guy that was exceptionally well trained and when the shots were fired it was total reptilian brain, reflex reaction.

I am sure it depends on the cirumstance. If you hear a noise or notice a light on or a door open, and your brain has time to process, it is a whole lot different than when you are totally surprised, caught off guard and just shit your pants.

We all like to think we would react like Bruce Willis in Die Hard or Clint Eastwood in Grand Torino but I hope I never find out and will probaly react like Regan's Secret Service guy
 
terraformer said:
Please, no warning shots. Warning shots are a construct of hollywood and the Coast Guard. If you are neither a hypocrite anti-gun actor making their living playing with gun or a coastie, you have no business firing warning shots.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. No way in today's society should we do this.

I do have to share two stories though. My dad fired warning shots on two separate occasions (this was in Utah in the 70's and 80's). The first one, as my Dad tells it, he an my mom had got in a fight and he decided to go for a walk. Just after he left the house he had this strong feeling that he should go back and get his .357 revolver. He went back, got it, and put it into a shoulder holster. As he was walking in the foothills above our house a truckload of drunk guys pulled up and told him to "come over here." He said, "No, my friend says I don't have to." The guys laughed and said, "What friend? Get over here!" My dad repeated again that his friend said he didn't have to. He then pulled his revolver from the holster and fired at their feet. They jumped in their truck and sped off. The second time he heard a noise next door (the neighbors were out of town), grabbed his gun, and went to investigate. He found a local teen trying to break in through a window in the back. He told the kid to take off or he was going to shoot him. The kid laughed and said, "You wouldn't dare." My dad then fired into the ground next to his feet. The kid freaked out and ran off.

I don't recommend this, but it does make for some fun family stories. [grin]
 
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Palladin said:
three in the chest will usually do that.

just sayin'
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It will. But the legal and ethical distinction is actually quite important. Your goal was to stop the attack. You were trained to shoot center of mass and you did, knowing that it might kill the perp. But that wasn't your goal -- your goal was to stop the attack.

And, btw, in the US about 80% of people shot with a handgun survive.
 
fencer said:
I always think of the slow motion footage of the Regan shooting. When the shots went off, there was a Secret Service agent that did this crazy, spasmo, wounded deer dance, before he pulled himself together. Here was a guy that was exceptionally well trained and when the shots were fired it was total reptilian brain, reflex reaction.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the agent who jumped in front of Reagan, squared up to the shooter? That actually is part of their training, to take the bullet for their protectee.
 
FreeWillie said:
Pussies shot to stop. I shot to kill. And nobody will change that attitude. 3 .45 center mass if that doesn't do it then 3 more. And I have 3 more after that. Don't want to be a keyboard commando but.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you are not understanding the distinction. If you shoot him 3 times in the chest and he collapses, you shot to stop. He might die. He might not. And if you were in danger of death or grave bodily injury, that is likely justifiable.

On the other hand, if you shoot once in the chest and he collapses, then you walk up to him while he is prone on the floor and no longer a threat, and then shoot him two more times, you have just shot to kill and committed murder.

Same number of shots in the same location, but a much different outcome.

Your goal is to stop him. You are using deadly force. It may well kill him. But that wasn't your intent. If you say anything else you may be talking your way into jail.
 
M1911 said:
Are you talking about the agent who jumped in front of Reagan, squared up to the shooter? That actually is part of their training, to take the bullet for their protectee.
Click to expand...


No. I know the guy you are talking about and understand about the Secret Service training to take a bullet for the Principal, this Agent was further away when the shots were fired. I will look for a video
 

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