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True but mostly because the wealthy amongst us who own overvalued machines guns have no interest in overturning the law and in fact have a compelling interest in keeping the law as-is.
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Want a NEW Machinegun? The ATF may have just allowed you to make one!**Update Post 72
- Thread starter soloman02
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True but mostly because the wealthy amongst us who own overvalued machines guns have no interest in overturning the law and in fact have a compelling interest in keeping the law as-is.
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This form of logic is similar to that presented by individuals who declare they owe no income taxes because of arguments like "wages are not taxable" or "the constitution does not allow an income tax". Even if the logic may appear sound, it will be summarily rejected by the courts.
The logic also claims that "individuals may not possess post 1986 machine guns". If a trust owns a MG, how does a trustee handle the gun without temporarily possessing it as an individual?
The logic also claims that "individuals may not possess post 1986 machine guns". If a trust owns a MG, how does a trustee handle the gun without temporarily possessing it as an individual?
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Sort of like Taxi medallions or Papua New Guinea carry permits.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Wait... now I'm confused. Does this mean I should stop working on the M60 I was building for plinking? $%#!
Why register it in the first place? Keep it for a 'rainy day.'
It is the technicality that may get the court's ok. It wouldn't be overturning the ban at all. They would just be upholding the written law as it stands. Even the MA courts have been finding for the gun owner lately in rulings on the application of law, rather than a direct 2A challenge.
I agree it is still very unlikely that it will get that far. But there is a chance they can find a judge willing to rule on the case since it really only comes down to telling the agency to follow its own rules. Not actually changing any laws.
It won't if someone would actually think about what this is, the trust can own things but the people listed in the trust would be prosecuted instead. Form 1 could be approved to make the MG, but the trust doesn't make it, a person doing the machine work does and they get prosecuted. Either that or the first person that touches it does.
Either way someone will get prosecuted and lose for at least ten years.
Quiet
Banned
Gotta say yes to the taxi medallions, but the PNG carry permits is a new one on me.
So nobody can touch a new MG, but a manufacturer can make a new one? So manufacturers can touch them. Does that mean if we all become manufacturers?
Wait wait, let me guess: To be a MG manufacturer is $10,000 a year or some such...?
More power to the rich!
Some ****ed up countries (PNG, and maybe Costa Rica or the DR... forget which) have a ****ed up system where they have a fixed number of carry permits. The licenses are transferable but you basically have to buy it off the person who already has it. So you need to find someone who is going to die or leave the country that has one, and pay them a stupid amount of money, then it can get transferred.
No. It's just a pain in the ass and hard to justify unless you're running an actual business out of it.
-Mike
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What happens to the MGs you've manufactured when you go out of business?
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Bingo - the last I heard from an Aussie who does a lot of business in PNG, the going rate for a PNG carry permit transfer is over $10K USD.
Last I checked the SOT (special occupational tax) was $1000/year, with a possible reduction to $500/year for small volume mfgrs.
Quiet
Banned
I saw a website that said there are fewer than 2,000 licenses left, 17,000 having expired. Well that's one way to pacify the country while keeping the support of the rich.
Great...
Well, I suppose if you can afford to feed a machine gun $500 or $1,000 a year might not seem like too much, so it must be Constitutional. :-/
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
it's just a matter of doing enough sales To pay for it.
If you charge 20$ that's only 50 transfers for the year. But If you only make so much is when the tax is lowered . It's just a balance if doing enough side biz to cover the cost .
If rather try my hand at being a FFl and make a post sample m16 vs paying for a transferable .
Want a NEW Machinegun? The ATF may have just allowed you to make one!
Do you have a cite for this? Not that I don't doubt it, but I also recall reading something in ATF paperwork about when an FFL doesn't renew. I am almost positive it was pertaining to post 86 demos. I will try to find it tonight.
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Do you have a cite for this? Not that I don't doubt it, but I also recall reading something in ATF paperwork about when an FFL doesn't renew. I am almost positive it was pertaining to post 86 demos. I will try to find it tonight.
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Remembering back to Fiduciary Relations, I'm trying to figure out how that would work. The trust would have to "own" all the material ahead of time, and the trustee would have to create the sear out of said material and then mate it to an appropriate receiver already in the possession of the trust. Documentation would be key.
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
Easier to just get the 07/SOT and make the MG or suppressor and register it with NFA branch on a Form 2. Ask me how I know. Jack.
dcmdon
NES Member
they aren't going to overturn the ban.
But it may force the ATF to reconsider its stand on whether or not a trust is a person.
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And if you don't want to spend the $500/yr for the SOT, but have the 07, just make it and pay the $200 tax.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
So you can make a mg for your self and only pay 200$ one time. Or make as many as you want for you self and pay 500$ every year?
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
If you pay the SOT you will be able to deal in NFA items. It just opens more doors (NFA transfers, etc.) Jack.
I don't have cites offhand, if you want you can go dig it up.
Pre-May 86 DS can be retained by a dealer when they close their business. (These are still pretty expensive, but not quite as expensive as pre-86 civilian transferables are) Post-86 DS has to be disposed of somehow. If the latter wasn't true, every other rich guy would just get an 07, run it for a year or two and load up their collection and then close up shop. Obviously if you "manufacture" stuff that isn't banned like SBR, AOW, etc, you can keep these when you give up your FFL. There may or may not be NFA tax ramifications when you go to do this, that's the only part that I'm not sure of. Never really looked into that end of it because even if you had to pay the taxes on individual transfers, that's probably a pittance compared to the value tied up in the guns.
-Mike
