Vehicle stop. Courtesy? Yes? No? Hell no?

Shortstuff said:
I've read a lot of threads with posts concerning what you should do if you are pulled over by a law enforcement officer in Massachusetts and you either have a weapon in your vehicle or on your person. It seems like many (if not most) reply NOT to offer that information freely, do NOT tell the LEO this tidbit of information unless he or she specifically asks you if there is a weapon in the vehicle and of course, do not lie.

Born and raised here, I've been driving for about 45 years. I've never received so much as a parking ticket. It's not that I've never been caught, I was just raised to obey the law, so yes, I am one of those M*******s you beep at, yell at and give the finger to because I won't go much over the speed limit as you want me to. I come to a complete stop at stop signs and red lights, etc. I was pulled over once in my life, about 2 a.m. in the center of Framingham back in '80 or '81. Two cruisers from opposite directions, guns drawn, my vehicle just happened to match one that was involved in a robbery. It wasn't me, I was heading home from work at General Motors.

I know that we are not required to tell any officer that there is a weapon in our vehicle, but I would really like to know why you would not? In my mind I would be providing the officer a courtesy to inform him that I have a weapon on me. My hands would be at 10 and 2, the interior lights on if necessary and then ask him how he would like me to proceed. For those who would NOT tell the officer, is it because it really is not the right thing to do? Is it because it can only present you with a problematic situation? Is it true that officers would not treat you well (as some have said)? Am I asking for trouble if I do?

Call me old-fashioned, old school. I have the highest respect for LEO's and I was brought up with high morals and as a retired Marine I have earned my right to carry if I so desire to. I trust no one and hope I never EVER have to use my weapon in self-defense. I've seen more than my share and hope that I am done with that. I would really appreciate honest thoughts, especially from any LEO's who read my post. I am not saying that everyone should tell the LEO, but I do think it is up to each individual to make that decision, to tell or not to tell. I don't think there's really a "right" or "wrong" answer, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this either way. And if this subject has been beaten to death on these forums, please provide me with a link so I can educate myself and accept my apology.
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just wear the CCW sash at all times. [laugh]
 
The only right answer is the one that complies with the law(s), and with your personal outlook.

OP, you seem to think that it's the thing to do. So, do it. The people that are of the opinion that it's not the thing to do, wont.

If you're big enough to have an LTC, you're big enough to make your own decisions. Since you (OP) have read lots of threads with this in it, you should not be surprised in the responses you are getting.
 
If your reason for being delayed by the POPO is all legit!
Just respond to guestions asked no more. More information summited will be used against you!
 
I will start by saying if asked I would tell the truth. Tell what and where and how they would like to proceed. I had this conversation with 2 good friends that are LEO. Both said they would rather not know. And here's why....if you are a law abiding citizen that has no intention of shooting them then all it's going to do is make everyone nervous and on edge. I know that if I get stopped I'm not going to try and kill an officer. So why take the stop to the next level.
 
Paul455 said:
IF Asked - Then disclose

IF NOT Asked - Don't disclose

Simple
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If I remember correctly the single Mom from PA who accidentally crossed into NJ and got pulled over volunteered to the officer that she was carrying a pistol in her purse. She legally owned the pistol and had a permit for PA but since she was in NJ she was in big trouble. The A-Hole cop arrested her, the D-bag AG charged her and tried to make an example of her. If it wasn't for the public outcry she probably would have been prosecuted and likely convicted due to NJ's draconian mandatory sentencing laws for gun offenses. I believe Chris Christie pardoned her in the end but she had served 40 days in jail before she could raise bail and lost her job as a phlebotomist. All because she was honest and told the cop she was carrying.
 
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Shortstuff said:
I've read a lot of threads with posts concerning what you should do if you are pulled over by a law enforcement officer in Massachusetts and you either have a weapon in your vehicle or on your person. It seems like many (if not most) reply NOT to offer that information freely, do NOT tell the LEO this tidbit of information unless he or she specifically asks you if there is a weapon in the vehicle and of course, do not lie.

Born and raised here, I've been driving for about 45 years. I've never received so much as a parking ticket. It's not that I've never been caught, I was just raised to obey the law, so yes, I am one of those M*******s you beep at, yell at and give the finger to because I won't go much over the speed limit as you want me to. I come to a complete stop at stop signs and red lights, etc. I was pulled over once in my life, about 2 a.m. in the center of Framingham back in '80 or '81. Two cruisers from opposite directions, guns drawn, my vehicle just happened to match one that was involved in a robbery. It wasn't me, I was heading home from work at General Motors.

I know that we are not required to tell any officer that there is a weapon in our vehicle, but I would really like to know why you would not? In my mind I would be providing the officer a courtesy to inform him that I have a weapon on me. My hands would be at 10 and 2, the interior lights on if necessary and then ask him how he would like me to proceed. For those who would NOT tell the officer, is it because it really is not the right thing to do? Is it because it can only present you with a problematic situation? Is it true that officers would not treat you well (as some have said)? Am I asking for trouble if I do?

Call me old-fashioned, old school. I have the highest respect for LEO's and I was brought up with high morals and as a retired Marine I have earned my right to carry if I so desire to. I trust no one and hope I never EVER have to use my weapon in self-defense. I've seen more than my share and hope that I am done with that. I would really appreciate honest thoughts, especially from any LEO's who read my post. I am not saying that everyone should tell the LEO, but I do think it is up to each individual to make that decision, to tell or not to tell. I don't think there's really a "right" or "wrong" answer, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this either way. And if this subject has been beaten to death on these forums, please provide me with a link so I can educate myself and accept my apology.
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It makes them nervous. Nervous cops are dangerous.
 
Thank you for all the replies and as expected they were mostly that the majority say NOT to volunteer any information unless specifically asked by the LEO. Times have changed and I understand the reasoning behind the comments and opinions. I will keep my carry to myself unless asked.

Thanks.
 
Already posted about this in another thread a while back. I was stopped in my town for speeding. As always, I was carrying. Decided to disclose only because I figured he'd see it on the computer anyway, and hoped maybe my LTC/"upstanding law-abiding citizen" card would get me out of the speeding ticket. Cop was cool, wrote me a warning, and advised me to NOT disclose in the future. He just wanted me to know that it's possible to get stopped by an uptight officer that will over react, disarm you, etc. I'm taking his advice and won't disclose in the future.
 
I've never cited a LTC holder who has informed me of such. I'm sure I've cited plenty who never told me. For the NES braintrusts, we don't "already know". Some of us actually make a stop and only run stuff if there's an issue. Also we all use different software, LTC status isn't part of it, that requires using an online system through the state, which most of us don't access in the car.

As long as your not intoxicated or involved in a criminal matter, if stopped for a CMVI it would in MOST cases probably help your situation to speak up.

Just my $.02 but I've been doing this for 17 years and spent 7 of those assigned to a traffic unit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Your advice assumes that all cops are gun guys who are willing to cut other gun guys a break. It also assumes that half the cops out there aren't going to overreact to the fact that a person in the car has a gun on them.

What good comes from notifying the cop? We all know what bad can come from it.
 
Related, is there a reliable list of states which require you to disclose during a traffic stop you are carrying a concealed weapon or have firearms in the vehicle?
 
MAJoe said:
Related, is there a reliable list of states which require you to disclose during a traffic stop you are carrying a concealed weapon or have firearms in the vehicle?
Click to expand...

Best source is check handgunlaw.us for info for each state and then go to the state linked webpage to confirm. Gary does a great job trying to keep stuff up to date, but laws change, policies change, acceptance of NR LTC changes too and nobody is perfect, so I always check source info directly.
 
Miamivice said:
As long as your not intoxicated or involved in a criminal matter, if stopped for a CMVI it would in MOST cases probably help your situation to speak up.

Just my $.02 but I've been doing this for 17 years and spent 7 of those assigned to a traffic unit.
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Unfortunately, you're not the only one out there making traffic stops. There are certainly a percentage who would escalate things upon learning the driver is armed.

It doesn't matter if it's one in 10 or one in a million, if it's the one who has you stopped.
 
OP I just read your post again,and noticed that your up in age there.All you have to do if the cop pulls you over is give him you AARP card,and then just shit yourself.You can tell him you have a gun,but don't remember where you put it.
 
PATRON said:
OP I just read your post again,and noticed that your up in age there.All you have to do if the cop pulls you over is give him you AARP card,and then just shit yourself.You can tell him you have a gun,but don't remember where you put it.
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/THREAD
 
MAJoe said:
Related, is there a reliable list of states which require you to disclose during a traffic stop you are carrying a concealed weapon or have firearms in the vehicle?
Click to expand...
If you want an app, the CCW app (iphone and Android) is very thorough and kept up to date. Just put in what permits you have and go. Each state's stances and laws on duty to Inform, transport and storage, prohibited areas, alcohol and bars while carrying, signage, etc all in an easy app on your phone.

http://rightapp.net/wp/ccw/

Links to Android, Apple, etc near the top. It's not free, but for the cost vs being able to look stuff up fast without waiting for websites to load, it's worth it.
 
PATRON said:
OP I just read your post again,and noticed that your up in age there.All you have to do if the cop pulls you over is give him you AARP card,and then just shit yourself.You can tell him you have a gun,but don't remember where you put it.
Click to expand...

I'm enjoying all the "funny" replies I'm getting, honestly I am. Good news is, I can't shit myself. I had issues with Ulcerative Colitis for about 10 years and 3 years ago had an operation. They removed my entire large intestine, removed my colon and sewed my anus shut. So I'll be pooping in a bag for the rest of my life. 2 heart attacks and battled cancer with chemo and radiation a year ago. Oh, and I got my Purple Heart back in 1983 along with quite a few others, but there were 220 Marines, 18 Sailors and 3 Soldiers who came home in a box, all in the same incident. So I've learned to take one day at a time and enjoy what life I have left. No matter what gets thrown at me I always think positive and laugh right along side everyone and at myself. Humor is a good thing, really and keeps me going every single day.
 
They already know. MA trooper would know that I have a permit too, and I live in NC.
I wish NC was not a duty to inform. Seems like a trap to me. They already know so if the first words out are not I have permit and my gun is...." then I'm screwed.
This is one point on which MA got something right, at least for the inform crap.
 
Shortstuff said:
I'm enjoying all the "funny" replies I'm getting, honestly I am. Good news is, I can't shit myself. I had issues with Ulcerative Colitis for about 10 years and 3 years ago had an operation. They removed my entire large intestine, removed my colon and sewed my anus shut. So I'll be pooping in a bag for the rest of my life. 2 heart attacks and battled cancer with chemo and radiation a year ago. Oh, and I got my Purple Heart back in 1983 along with quite a few others, but there were 220 Marines, 18 Sailors and 3 Soldiers who came home in a box, all in the same incident. So I've learned to take one day at a time and enjoy what life I have left. No matter what gets thrown at me I always think positive and laugh right along side everyone and at myself. Humor is a good thing, really and keeps me going every single day.
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I remember that day like it was yesterday. I came home from school and my brother was there and he was watching it on the news, in tears. He was 1st Division (67-71 ). Two years later he drove me to the recruiters office and my Mom had to sign me in because I was still 17 when I left for the Island. I turned 18 on PI, about halfway through boot.

Your positive outlook is inspirational. Keep swinging Marine. Semper Fi.
 
MAJoe said:
Related, is there a reliable list of states which require you to disclose during a traffic stop you are carrying a concealed weapon or have firearms in the vehicle?
Click to expand...

Download the app "CCW" I find it very useful for knowing state by stat laws such as duty to inform.
 
vickers said:
If I remember correctly the single Mom from PA who accidentally crossed into NJ and got pulled over volunteered to the officer that she was carrying a pistol in her purse. She legally owned the pistol and had a permit for PA but since she was in NJ she was in big trouble. The A-Hole cop arrested her, the D-bag AG charged her and tried to make an example of her. If it wasn't for the public outcry she probably would have been prosecuted and likely convicted due to NJ's draconian mandatory sentencing laws for gun offenses. I believe Chris Christie pardoned her in the end but she had served 40 days in jail before she could raise bail and lost her job as a phlebotomist. All because she was honest and told the cop she was carrying.
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She legally owned the pistol in Pennsylvania.
She crossed into New Jersey. That's a state line and different laws apply.
She didn't have any permit for NJ and FOPA didn't apply.
So, she's now breaking the law in NJ and she advised the trooper that she had it in her possession.

She should have kept her mouth shut, she was clearly breaking the law.
BUT - she didn't know that.
That's a problem. Lots of people don't seem to understand the ramifications of crossing a state line.
It can be enormous.

If I cross the line from CT to MA for example, and I have an expended casing in my truck, (not unlikely due to the amount I shoot and the crap that's always floating around in the back and bed), I'm technically in violation of MA law. I've got ammunition components in my possession and I don't have any MA paperwork.

GA borders SC. If I went wandering on my bike and crossed into SC, until recently my GA permit wasn't recognized. It is now, but I have to remember that SC is Concealed Carry Only, while GA is Concealed and/or Open. Not knowing the law of bordering states while carrying a gun can get you arrested.

So - back to NJ and the woman from PA. She disclosed to the trooper that she had a gun. He arrested her. Pretty clear cut. The DA was a douche, but again, she was clearly breaking the law and NJ is known to fck over gun owners when they can. The NRA got involved, the righteous indignation of the public got involved and this woman got cut loose as I remember.

It's not that she was "Innocent", it's more that she was "Ignorant". I didn't say "Stupid", although that could be questioned. If you're going to carry a firearm, you NEED to know the laws of the state you're carrying it in, so that this doesn't happen to you.

If she'd known that she wasn't legally in possession of her firearm in New Jersey, she could have avoided the entire mess by simply KEEPING HER MOUTH SHUT.

And I'm the guy that almost ALWAYS shows the cop my permit when I have a firearm on me.

Know how to handle your gun, know the laws that pertain, know when to keep your mouth shut.

And don't piss into the wind.
 
allen-1 said:
...
It's not that she was "Innocent", it's more that she was "Ignorant". I didn't say "Stupid", although that could be questioned. If you're going to carry a firearm, you NEED to know the laws of the state you're carrying it in, so that this doesn't happen to you.
...
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We're all ignorant of most things.

I would contend as a practical matter, yes, you need to know the law where you are.

It is however, due to the stupidity and arrogance of our lawmakers passing unconstitutional and sometimes simply wrong laws and the sheepish, slavish attitude of the People, tolerating this.

Her "stupidity" was not realizing that some people in positions of power (law makers, etc) are profoundly corrupt.



sent from my chimney using smoke signals
 
Please explain why FOPA did not apply, in not clear on this. Was NJ her destination? It was my understanding that she took a wrong turn that landed her in NJ.

Anyway you slice it, crap like that is unconstitutional. If you live near the border of a state that won't issue non-resident permits, are you then unable to defend yourself and your loved ones because you might take a wrong turn? I'm not sure what to do on this one. Keep mouth shut, of course. Not carry? Not so clear on that.
 
bigblue said:
Please explain why FOPA did not apply, in not clear on this. Was NJ her destination? It was my understanding that she took a wrong turn that landed her in NJ.

Anyway you slice it, crap like that is unconstitutional. If you live near the border of a state that won't issue non-resident permits, are you then unable to defend yourself and your loved ones because you might take a wrong turn? I'm not sure what to do on this one. Keep mouth shut, of course. Not carry? Not so clear on that.
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IANAL, if the firearm is stowed in accordance with FOPA then a stray into adjoining state would be lawful. She probably was carrying it, though.

New Hampster, I believe, either did erect or proposed erecting signage on roads approaching borders saying to check yourself. That said I don't ever recall SEEING those signs, so either it didn't happen or they're wicked small [thinking]

Regardless, 2A is quite clear that the Right to Bear Arms shall not be infringed period. The States do NOT have the lawful power to impose laws that infringe that right.
 
I've never seen signs near state borders on small roads nor large that would warn a traveler that they should take precautions with their method of self defense.

Unloading and stowing a firearm is not an effective means of self defense and defeats the purpose.
 
Unfortunately, our laws are now so complex that none of us really know what they are, including those whose job it is to enforce said laws.
 
bigblue said:
Please explain why FOPA did not apply, in not clear on this. Was NJ her destination? It was my understanding that she took a wrong turn that landed her in NJ.

Anyway you slice it, crap like that is unconstitutional. If you live near the border of a state that won't issue non-resident permits, are you then unable to defend yourself and your loved ones because you might take a wrong turn? I'm not sure what to do on this one. Keep mouth shut, of course. Not carry? Not so clear on that.
Click to expand...

FOPA says if you're legal in origin and destination then you can transport firearm cased and unloaded.
Her firearm was neither.

I'm not debating constitutionality with you, not arguing right .vs. wrong, not arguing what should be.
All I'm saying here is that she violated the LAWS AS THEY EXIST. I freaking hate New Jersey and New York gun laws.
I dread driving through them as I travel from GA to CT or vice-versa because even though I adhere to FOPA, I've read enough reported incidents of NJ and NY cops NOT honoring FOPA.

And I REALLY REALLY REALLY resent having to disarm myself during my travels in order to remain compliant with the laws.
I'm voluntarily making myself a potential victim - or I'm choosing to knowingly violate laws that carry serious repurcussions.

Which is why I have firearms in the two states that I reside in. So that I don't have to TRANSPORT through NJ, NY and MD all of which SUCK.
But, why should I as a law-abiding citizen be unarmed? What gives NJ, MD and NY the right to take away my constitutional rights?
 

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