Vehicle stop. Courtesy? Yes? No? Hell no?

[Shortstuff]

I've read a lot of threads with posts concerning what you should do if you are pulled over by a law enforcement officer in Massachusetts and you either have a weapon in your vehicle or on your person. It seems like many (if not most) reply NOT to offer that information freely, do NOT tell the LEO this tidbit of information unless he or she specifically asks you if there is a weapon in the vehicle and of course, do not lie.

Born and raised here, I've been driving for about 45 years. I've never received so much as a parking ticket. It's not that I've never been caught, I was just raised to obey the law, so yes, I am one of those M*******s you beep at, yell at and give the finger to because I won't go much over the speed limit as you want me to. I come to a complete stop at stop signs and red lights, etc. I was pulled over once in my life, about 2 a.m. in the center of Framingham back in '80 or '81. Two cruisers from opposite directions, guns drawn, my vehicle just happened to match one that was involved in a robbery. It wasn't me, I was heading home from work at General Motors.

I know that we are not required to tell any officer that there is a weapon in our vehicle, but I would really like to know why you would not? In my mind I would be providing the officer a courtesy to inform him that I have a weapon on me. My hands would be at 10 and 2, the interior lights on if necessary and then ask him how he would like me to proceed. For those who would NOT tell the officer, is it because it really is not the right thing to do? Is it because it can only present you with a problematic situation? Is it true that officers would not treat you well (as some have said)? Am I asking for trouble if I do?

Call me old-fashioned, old school. I have the highest respect for LEO's and I was brought up with high morals and as a retired Marine I have earned my right to carry if I so desire to. I trust no one and hope I never EVER have to use my weapon in self-defense. I've seen more than my share and hope that I am done with that. I would really appreciate honest thoughts, especially from any LEO's who read my post. I am not saying that everyone should tell the LEO, but I do think it is up to each individual to make that decision, to tell or not to tell. I don't think there's really a "right" or "wrong" answer, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this either way. And if this subject has been beaten to death on these forums, please provide me with a link so I can educate myself and accept my apology.

 

[Fixxah]

These don't end well. They know already.

 

[greencobra]

i've been stopped twice while carrying concealed. you know, it never came up in my mind to tell him, i was too busy being pissed thinking about the surcharge on my insurance so my mind was at that place. there's a lot of chatter here regarding whether this info comes up when he runs your plate #, if you are a ltc holder. the consensus is that info is indeed given so he/she knows there is at least a chance there is a firearm in the vehicle. any leo i've spoken to regarding this has never confirmed this and i wasn't asked at the time of each traffic stop, so.....

if there's no law stating we have to tell, why bother?

 

[MachineHead]

These don't end well. They know already.

Pretty much this. Cop already knows if you have an LTC, answer honestly, interact sans attitude, go home.

There is no need to volunteer the information, but do what you want. The cop usually wants to do his thing and go home.

 

[drgrant]

I've read a lot of threads with posts concerning what you should do if you are pulled over by a law enforcement officer in Massachusetts and you either have a weapon in your vehicle or on your person. It seems like many (if not most) reply NOT to offer that information freely, do NOT tell the LEO this tidbit of information unless he or she specifically asks you if there is a weapon in the vehicle and of course, do not lie.

Born and raised here, I've been driving for about 45 years. I've never received so much as a parking ticket. It's not that I've never been caught, I was just raised to obey the law, so yes, I am one of those M*******s you beep at, yell at and give the finger to because I won't go much over the speed limit as you want me to. I come to a complete stop at stop signs and red lights, etc. I was pulled over once in my life, about 2 a.m. in the center of Framingham back in '80 or '81. Two cruisers from opposite directions, guns drawn, my vehicle just happened to match one that was involved in a robbery. It wasn't me, I was heading home from work at General Motors.

I know that we are not required to tell any officer that there is a weapon in our vehicle, but I would really like to know why you would not? In my mind I would be providing the officer a courtesy to inform him that I have a weapon on me. My hands would be at 10 and 2, the interior lights on if necessary and then ask him how he would like me to proceed. For those who would NOT tell the officer, is it because it really is not the right thing to do? Is it because it can only present you with a problematic situation? Is it true that officers would not treat you well (as some have said)? Am I asking for trouble if I do?

Because most of the time, it's simply unnecessary. Do you show everyone else your cards when you play poker?

With good cops it won't be a problem (we have some here on NES) but I assume by default that there's a small chance that the guy coming up to my window MIGHT be officer Numbskullington. Officer Numbskullington should be treated with respect out of the gate, but he is the kind of guy you don't want to go around waving gun licenses at when you don't need to- because he reacts irrationally when something becomes other than a canned traffic stop for a light out or whatever it is. The problem is that you don't know if one of these guys is Officer Numbskullington until it's already way too late.

I've asked a few LEOs I know about this and they nearly all say the same thing, to paraprase- "If the guy isn't a douche and his firearm is concealed, why should I care? It's not really germaine to the reason I stopped somebody."

If you use google search and append site:northeastshooters.com at the end of the search terms you'll find about 900 "pulled over while carrying" threads. I'm going to quote myself here though to summarize how these things usually end... I'll leave this open for now but
don't be surprised if it gets locked by (somebody) by the morning.

These "pulled over while carrying" threads can be summarized into a few different classes of response:

-Those who say you should always notify

-Those who say you should always notify because of the ruse that it might
get you out of a ticket. (Fat chance, IMO, but people still believe this for
some reason. )

-Those who say you should only notify if the law requires it.

-Those who say you should only notify if the law requires it or you are
asked about firearms, or asked to get out of the vehicle.

-Like the above, but have had a bad experience with a LEO to back this up... (eg, gun stuck in ear, dragged out of
car, muzzle swept by own gun during a disarm, etc. )

-LEOs who tell you don't do it unless law requires it (Because it might spook
some leos that don't get ccw very well )

-LEOs who tell you to ALWAYS do it regardless.

Oh, and almost forgot:

-Those who excoriate individuals for not doing it.

-Those who excoriate individuals for doing it when it's not required.

Pick one or more than one of the above, push BLEND button.

Or I imagine these reasons being on those flippy tiley things on 25,000 pyramid...

 

[glide]

The cops of today are not the cops from when you were growing up.

No good will come from providing more information than absolutely necessary. I would link the "Don't talk to the police" vid but I'm too lazy

 

[GPP]

The cops of today are not the cops from when you were growing up.

No good will come from providing more information than absolutely necessary. I would link the "Don't talk to the police" vid but I'm too lazy

The first sentence of this post is extremely accurate, as is the second.

If asked, my advice is to tell the truth, using slow, articulate sentences, and proceed with caution and common sense from there.

 

[robjax]

In Mass there is no law that says during a traffic stop you have to voluntarily tell an office that you are carrying. And similarly there is no law saying you can't offer that information up front just to be nice. So if you get pulled over and you feel more comfortable putting the officer at ease by letting him/her know you are in possession of a firearm then that is what you should do. The 1st and 4th amendments are yours to use however you see fit....

 

[Live-a-Little]

If the officer asked me if I had a weapon or if he asked me to step out of the vehicle I would most certainly tell him that I am concealed carrying. However, I would start by telling him that I have a class A unrestricted license to carry and I am carring a loaded M&P Shield at my 3 o'clock with one in the chamber. How would you like me to proceed? I will not say the word gun since I have heard that can be a trigger word for cops.

But in most situations and with most cops it won't be a factor at all so why mention it at all. And then there is the off chance you get pulled over by officer stick in his rear and mentioning that you are carrying could set him off resulting in any number of scenarios that were not necessary in the first place.

 

[Snora]

Is it because it can only present you with a problematic situation?

This. What good could possibly come by providing superfluous information?

I trust no one...

Same here. That's why I don't provide more information to anyone (including the police) than necessary.

 

[PATRON]

I always taught my students to tell the cop I am carrying a firearm,and I have a licence to do so how would you like me to proceed.I no longer do that because as stated some of today's cops are idiots,and could turn that into a big deal.You also run into the problem that if he decided to disarm you,and in the process shoots you because he does not know how your gun works.So don't tell unless asked,or you need to reach for something where you gun is.

 

[Kicker96FS]

 

[gamma19]

The best way to do it would be to jump out of your car as the officer is approaching and yell "I have a gun!"

Kidding aside, my personal opinion is that since Mass does not have a duty to inform, why make extra trouble for yourself? The couple times I've been pulled over while carrying, the officer didn't ask, and I didn't tell.

 

[not new guy]

Need to know exactly how slow you drive before responding. Speed limit? 2mph over? 5?

 

[Old Glory]

What is the rule if you "carry" in a briefcase. Is that considered within your control? I was thinking of getting a Hidden Agenda case for my briefcase because I can't carry on my person at work. If I were stopped and asked if I had a weapon would it be an issue if it was not on my person/in my control in a briefcase?

 

[Zeo]

...

I know that we are not required to tell any officer that there is a weapon in our vehicle, but I would really like to know why you would not? In my mind I would be providing the officer a courtesy to inform him that I have a weapon on me. My hands would be at 10 and 2, the interior lights on if necessary and then ask him how he would like me to proceed. For those who would NOT tell the officer, is it because it really is not the right thing to do? Is it because it can only present you with a problematic situation? Is it true that officers would not treat you well (as some have said)? Am I asking for trouble if I do?
....... .

Keep giving your govt-overseer more ideas for more laws...

... until the day you forget to announce, and you end up with size 14 boot (of a JBT) on your neck while you're face down in snow or mud, ( maybe over exaggerating, maybe not ) , followed by loss of your carry license, because you "failed to announce".

Then come make a thread on the interweb whining about "a simple mistake made me lose my license, where can I find a lawyer to help me ?"

 

[Picton]

If asked, tell the truth. If not asked, keep your pie hole shut.

Seems like common sense to me. I've been stopped twice while carrying; neither cop asked, or seemed to care.

 

[fencer]

.You also run into the problem that if he decided to disarm you,and in the process shoots you because he does not know how your gun works.So don't tell unless asked,or you need to reach for something where you gun is.

This. The way I see it, informing the officer without being asked can only result in a few different scenarios and most of them are not good, ranging from gun in your face while kissing asphalt, to a very nervous cop who's "gun goes off". And it is not at all unlikely that in this state, just the fact that you are carrying a firearm, will be enough to excuse Officer Triggerhappy for shooting you dead. He goes back to work after a short paid vacation.

Best scenario is cop tells you not to reach for it and does his thing.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What is the rule if you "carry" in a briefcase. Is that considered within your control? I was thinking of getting a Hidden Agenda case for my briefcase because I can't carry on my person at work. If I were stopped and asked if I had a weapon would it be an issue if it was not on my person/in my control in a briefcase?

IF said container (briefcase) isn't locked, an a-hole LEO could make a case of unsecured transport and in MA a conviction would be upheld. This is a particular problem with women and off-body carry.

Keep giving your govt-overseer more ideas for more laws...

... until the day you forget to announce, and you end up with size 14 boot (of a JBT) on your neck while you're face down in snow or mud, ( maybe over exaggerating, maybe not ) , followed by loss of your carry license, because you "failed to announce".

Then come make a thread on the interweb whining about "a simple mistake made me lose my license, where can I find a lawyer to help me ?"

You are projecting some dire scenarios here.

Damn near everyone agrees that if asked to exit the vehicle you should declare that you have a license and are carrying plus where it is.

For both officer safety and public safety reasons we were taught in the Police Academy to have the person stopped REMAIN in the vehicle unless we were doing a sobriety check or placing someone under arrest. I know that some other states haul people out of a car and search it for a taillight out, but I can tell you we don't do that in MA!

If asked, tell the truth. If not asked, keep your pie hole shut.

Seems like common sense to me. I've been stopped twice while carrying; neither cop asked, or seemed to care.

Agree 100% here. I've also been stopped twice while CCW'g and never asked nor did I declare. One of those officers was nasty as could be, practically spitting nails and I'm certain I would have been proned out if I had declared.

Working as a PO, I'm convinced that at least one MV stop I made the guy was armed. However he didn't act like an a-hole and I never asked, it wasn't why I stopped him, so we did our business and parted ways.

This. The way I see it, informing the officer without being asked can only result in a few different scenarios and most of them are not good, ranging from gun in your face while kissing asphalt, to a very nervous cop who's "gun goes off". And it is not at all unlikely that in this state, just the fact that you are carrying a firearm, will be enough to excuse Officer Triggerhappy for shooting you dead. He goes back to work after a short paid vacation.

Best scenario is cop tells you not to reach for it and does his thing.

Most LEOs that I know aren't gun people and barely know how to deal with the one on their hip (I know, I've asked). Therefore, the above isn't far fetched at all and certainly not desirable, so why tempt fate?

 

[M1911]

I've been pulled over in MA about 4 times in the past 30 years. I was carrying on two of those occasions. I was never asked by the officers if there were weapons or drugs in the car. They didn't ask and I didn't offer. I was polite and respectful each time, and on all 4 occasions I received a written warning and was on my way without much delay.

I carry my wallet such that I don't have to reach near my gun to get it. So there is little chance of the officer inadvertently seeing my gun. If they don't ask, I won't mention it. If they ask, I will reply that "I have a license to carry and I am carrying now". If an officer tells me to exit the vehicle, I will reply: "Certainly officer, however I have a license to carry and I am carrying now. How would you like to proceed?"

I met someone who, during a normal traffic stop, volunteered that he was carrying. The officer called for backup. He was removed from the car at gunpoint, disarmed, cuffed and stuffed in the back of a cruiser. What would have been a normal traffic stop turned into a one hour odyssey on the side of the road, all because he opened his mouth when he should have just kept it shut. Was this the normal response of a police officer? No, but it can happen in MA as there are many police officers who think that only two types of people carry guns: cops and criminals.

If you are in a state where you are not required to notify the officer that you are carrying, I see little upside in notifying and potentially plenty of downside.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

This. Jack.

 

[knfmn]

The cops of today are not the cops from when you were growing up.

No good will come from providing more information than absolutely necessary. I would link the "Don't talk to the police" vid but I'm too lazy

I'll link it for you below. A few points:

1. Do not ever talk to the cops. They aren't asking you questions because they think you look like an awesome guy and they'd like to go have a couple of beers with you one day. They are prying, probing and lying in an attempt to get you to admit, allege, hint at or disclose something that they can use to make your life worse. That's what their jobs are and that's what they do.

2. They might know that you have an LTC when they pull you over, but you don't need to bring it up just in case they missed it when they ran your plates.

3. Cops are not your friends. The days when cops took their job to help their communities and make society a better place are long gone.

4. Use the search feature. As others have pointed out, we get one of these threads every other day and the same answers get posted every time. You have people like me who will strongly advise you to keep your mouth completely shut and then you've got others that think the cop is going to decide that y'all are BFFs because you lick their boots and "respect their authoritah".

5. Nobody ever talked themselves into less trouble.



[video=youtube_share;ZGgKLgVNfAo]http://youtu.be/ZGgKLgVNfAo[/video]

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Don't ask, don't tell. If asked, be truthful and try to remain calm and collected. No need to make officer friendly nervous.

My brother told me that he was stopped by a local in his town on the cape in December for going a little fast on a residential street. The officer knew he was licensed and asked him if he was carrying. He was not and said so. Officer asked him to lift his shirt so that he could confirm that there was no holster on his belt. (Ya, it could have been carried elsewhere)

Officer let him off with a warning to slow down. Seemed like a good result all things considered.

 

[headednorth]

I was told.by a police.officer not to bring it up unless asked or.told to exit.the vehicle. His reasoning was if.you were.stopped for a.traffic violation, why even bring a gun into the conversation? Not all cops are.ok.with people carrying other than them, so why make them more on edge than they already are?

 

[robjax]

Don't ask, don't tell. If asked, be truthful and try to remain calm and collected. No need to make officer friendly nervous.

My brother told me that he was stopped by a local in his town on the cape in December for going a little fast on a residential street. The officer knew he was licensed and asked him if he was carrying. He was not and said so. Officer asked him to lift his shirt so that he could confirm that there was no holster on his belt. (Ya, it could have been carried elsewhere)

Officer let him off with a warning to slow down. Seemed like a good result all things considered.

so if they ask and you say no they have a right to a search?

 

[bigblue]

I've been stopped by MSP on the way to the range with target stands and shot up cardboard laying across my back seat and it didn't even come up. Volunteering information that is not germane to the stop complicates things and asks for trouble. If you are asked to get out of the vehicle, that is probably the point at which I would broach the subject.

 

[M1911]

so if they ask and you say no they have a right to a search?

Whether they ask or not, they have a right to do a Terry search.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Unless asked, I say nothing. After that I explain that I don't answer questions without a lawyer present.

 

[not new guy]

Whenever I get stopped I like to warn the cop about all the different ways that I could kill them if I wanted to, just in the interest of full disclosure and cooperation. They could be in a very jumpy mood and the last thing they need is a surprise, so I always tell them about my gun(s), my shod feet, and the 18 months I spent studying karate at the Fred Villari studio in North Weymouth back in the early 80s.

 

[M1911]

Whenever I get stopped I like to warn the cop about all the different ways that I could kill them if I wanted to, just in the interest of full disclosure and cooperation. They could be in a very jumpy mood and the last thing they need is a surprise, so I always tell them about my gun(s), my shod feet, and the 18 months I spent studying karate at the Fred Villari studio in North Weymouth back in the early 80s.