Upcoming Mass Gun Control hearings...

[Knob Creek]

What a bunch of Libtards. A bunch of small groups beating the same drum. When I spoke I specifically said that although I belong to the NRA and to GOAL they provided me no talking points to repeat unlike other groups.

 

[Coyote33]

Make no mistake; it is scripted. The anti gun groups have been working on these for a month, and have disseminated this amongst one another.

Yes, they have all repeated it verbatim.

What a bunch of Libtards. A bunch of small groups beating the same drum....

So, if it is scripted, repeatedly, over and over, we should have what they are saying down pat.

1. Does "It's Time" or GOAL have this info anywhere?
2. Is this information they are putting forth incorrect?
3. If so, do we have information which IS correct, or disproves the wrong info?
4. How do we put together our own testimony, making it sincere, to offset the lies?
5. Who will do this, and how do we coach it along?

I know, it is nicer and more altruistic to have people all do their own thing, but the time for altruisms is past. We need a coordinated effort to WIN. This can be IN ADDITION to the individual efforts.

See where I'm going with this? We need some organized groups (GOAL, It's Time) to help lead the way here.

Thanks.

 

[Knob Creek]

The panel, although listened politely to everyone they were really interested in comments you could make on specific bills. I don't think the anti's repeating the same "Improved background checks, gun show loopholes, etc" made a difference

One Gun a month: My statement to them was that the Governor seems to think licensed gun owners are buying guns and selling them out of the trunk to anyone. After going through all the requirements to buy and have that gun "registered" to you I could not imagine anyone sell them out on the street. Also to consider estates. If a gun owner dies or just wants to transfer his guns to a relative it could take months or years at one a month.

Seven Round Magazine: I had guns over a hundred years old that had magazines over 7 rounds. And asked if confronted with multiple assailants just how many rounds would you need. Was 7 rounds just dreamed up by Governor Cuomo? What's next? Five?

Insurance for guns: Compared it to having insurance to use your First Amendment Rights in case you libel someone.

Ammunition and Gun Tax: Suggested like most taxes it affects those who can afford it least.

Class B license: Agreed they should be discontinued.

FID for Pepper Spray: Agreed it should be discontinued.

Seemed very interested when I said my firearms classes were running 60-70% women.

 

[JGstunt]

After today, in my opinion I feel it would benefit us as a group to have a strong presence but establish prepared individuals to speak on detailed planned points that put forth our strongest case. Specific to the proposed bills.

I am normally a pretty strong public speaker, having spoken in front of 500-700, but I will admit I was frustrated and thrown off by the some of those who spoke from Both sides. As well as the fact that many topics were covered pretty well by those that spoke before me.

I hope we can offer exactly what the board is looking for in Worcester and make a solid impression WITH alternatives.

 

[W.E.C]

one thing i took out of this is,

the women are frightened.

and the vocal ones - the ones who have no idea how guns function,and never saw one up close are trying to ban all guns as the answer,


and the rest of the women are signing up for ltc's and going for training.


we need women spokspersons, they will carry more weight,right or wrong, that's how I see it.

 

[Knob Creek]

one thing i took out of this is,

the women are frightened.

and the vocal ones - the ones who have no idea how guns function,and never saw one up close are trying to ban all guns as the answer,


and the rest of the women are signing up for ltc's and going for training.


we need women spokspersons, they will carry more weight,right or wrong, that's how I see it.

You have a excellent point there. The panel did seem interested in my women students. We need women at the next meeting to counteract the GAG (Grandmothers against Guns) and the other women Rabbi's and Episcopal ministers that droned on about the assigned talking points.

 

[June4th]

There was a 28-yr-old mom of two boys who testified before me. She told me her NES handle but I didn't hear clearly with someone else talking. She was excellent, and kudos to the two young boys who patiently and politely sat hours through the session!

 

[Coyote33]

The panel, ... were really interested in comments you could make on specific bills. ...

One Gun a month: ...

Seven Round Magazine: ...

Insurance for guns: Compared it to having insurance to use your First Amendment Rights in case you libel someone.

Ammunition and Gun Tax: Suggested like most taxes it affects those who can afford it least.

Class B license: Agreed they should be discontinued.

FID for Pepper Spray: Agreed it should be discontinued.

Seemed very interested when I said my firearms classes were running 60-70% women.

One Gun a month: ... We need a solid couple arguments against this

Seven Round Magazine: ... We need a solid couple arguments against this

Insurance for guns: Compared it to having insurance to use your First Amendment Rights in case you libel someone. Good one!

Ammunition and Gun Tax: Suggested like most taxes it affects those who can afford it least. Unlike most taxes, this one could be life threatening!

Class B license: Agreed they should be discontinued. Who agreed? You, or the committee?

FID for Pepper Spray: Agreed it should be discontinued. Who agreed? You, or the committee?

Seemed very interested when I said my firearms classes were running 60-70% women. They are probably trying to figure out a way to ban women from these classes.

one thing i took out of this is,

the women are frightened.
... the women are signing up for ltc's and going for training.

we need women spokespersons, they will carry more weight,right or wrong, that's how I see it.

You have a excellent point there. The panel did seem interested in my women students. We need women at the next meeting ...

 

[Permanent Waves]

Thank you to all that attended. Massive kudos to those that testified.

I plan to attend the next 3 hearings, and I expect to testify at one. Some chance my wife may testify, which would make me super proud, but I also think she could also be very good in front of the panel. We are both professionals and have had to speak in front of groups of people.

To those that are wondering if maybe they should speak up and have their say, all I will humbly suggest to you is... Please do not doom yourself to the regrets of not having spoken up, when it's time for you to - pay for liability insurance, pay 25% tax on purchases, learn to count to only 7 or 5 or ZERO, store your firearms in a place outside your residence, or worse... Do you love your rights? Protect them. Silence is often mistaken for agreement.

 

[PaulD]

One Gun a month: ... We need a solid couple arguments against this

Seven Round Magazine: ... We need a solid couple arguments against this

Insurance for guns: Compared it to having insurance to use your First Amendment Rights in case you libel someone. Good one!

Ammunition and Gun Tax: Suggested like most taxes it affects those who can afford it least. Unlike most taxes, this one could be life threatening!

Class B license: Agreed they should be discontinued. Who agreed? You, or the committee?

FID for Pepper Spray: Agreed it should be discontinued. Who agreed? You, or the committee?

Seemed very interested when I said my firearms classes were running 60-70% women. They are probably trying to figure out a way to ban women from these classes.

One gun a month:

This is always intended as a way to prevent straw purchases. Within the commonwealth, strawy purchases should be impossible given the LTC and FA10 systems. It should be impossible for a person without an LTC/FID to purchase any gun whether at a dealer or via private sale. So one gun a month is pointless.

Insurance for guns:

This is a way for the state government to invoke private corporations as a work around for violating your 4th amendment rights. The government, ostensibly, wants to make sure you have your guns stored correctly but they can't inspect with no probably cause. So, they make the insurance companies do it. Of course, this is beyond the other effect Linsky is after of raising the cost of gun ownership to make it financially untenable.

Ammunition tax:

See above about raising the cost.

7 round limit:

This is pure incrementalism and will have absolutely no effect on criminals. No person who's already carrying a gun illegally will care about the additional penalty for loading past 7 rounds. The eventual goal is 1 round and Patrick confirmed this in an interview with Dan Rea on WBZ. He said that the NY state politicians arrived at 7 rounds through negotiation. Many of the politicians wanted a lower number. Should this be determined through political negotiation? Hell no.

 

[Coyote33]

PaulD, those are facts.

What the board wants to hear is PERSONAL TESTIMONY. This means, how the proposed new law would AFFECT YOU in a negative way.

 

[Lip]

It will help me in a way. Moving to nh. Before the ink drys.

 

[June4th]

In addition to the personal background, this is what I said in the hearing today:

What I learned is that Massachusetts firearm laws are fraught with conflicts and vagueness. A licensed gun owner faces a lot of uncertainty and potential legal jeopardy. Here are just two examples:

As a resident of Canton, the Chief of Police has a policy that first-time applicants will only be issued Class B restricted license, but may be upgraded to Class-A unrestricted sometime later; the neighboring town Sharon, as a general practice, never issues Class-A unrestricted to anyone; another neighbor Stoughton, typically issue Class-A unrestricted. The discretionary licensing gives police chiefs wholesale level power to deny people in a town the right to keep and bear arms, that is just wrong.

I am a sales professional and I have many customers in higher education and healthcare industry. Sometimes my plan changes while I am out in the middle of the day and I have to show up at a hospital in the afternoon. I have to ask myself: is it a regular hospital or teaching hospital? If it’s a teaching hospital, I cannot carry and have two options other than dropping my gun at home first:

#1 unload my gun and put it in a locked container then in the car trunk. If someone sees my gun during this process and call the cop, I’ll be deemed unsuited and lose my license;
#2, if my gun locked in trunk is stolen, my chief could still deem me unsuitable because a car trunk is not secure enough in a public parking garage.

In either case, if I lose my license, I lose all my guns. Many here are collectors with collections worth tens of thousands of dollars. This is the jeopardy we face every day. Gun owners like me bend over backwards to make sure we stay compliant with the law. I wonder how many gang bangers and determined mass murders think about these laws before they commit their crimes?

First time I walked by the Federal court in the waterfront, I was awed by the quote by John Adams: ‘The dignity and stability of government in all its branches, the morals of the people and every blessing of society, depends so much upon an upright and skillful administration of justice.

The case law history has shown that the convoluted gun laws in Massachusetts have done little to prevent violent crimes, but have been quite effective in prosecuting lawful gun owners on technicalities. There is nothing upright and skillful about the gun laws in Massachusetts. The proposed new bills by Rep Linsky and many others will make legal gun ownership in Massachusetts more perilous, without addressing any of the underlying issues of gun violence.

 

[LoginName]

Was anything mentioned about off site storage for "assault rifles" and/or a magazine ban that would require disposing of currently owned mags?

Quote from rabbi: (paraphrasing as accurate as possible)

Then one whack job gets up and spouts nothing but ignorance and F's it up for everyone...

There's one in every crowd.

Dare I ask what was said, or is it one of those things I'm better off nor knowing about?

One Gun a month: ... We need a solid couple arguments against this

Yeah... but it might not be a popular one (because it supports the other sides argument for "may issue).

The anti's reasoning/argument is that 1 gun per month is necessary to reduce illegal firearms trafficking .

MA currently has a "may issue" licensing system in place, meaning... that the issuing authority has broad discretion in renewing and/or revoking a license.

If there's any reason to suspect a license holder is involved in multiple firearms purchases for illegal street sales, the issuing authority can deny or revoke that license.

 

[pastera]

My tranny blew out in the dad Mobile on the way up today so some info from the fellas who ho would be awsome I will be going to the one in Worcester!

I was offering rides - just saying....

 

[pastera]

You have a excellent point there. The panel did seem interested in my women students. We need women at the next meeting to counteract the GAG (Grandmothers against Guns) and the other women Rabbi's and Episcopal ministers that droned on about the assigned talking points.

+1000 Women are needed to counter the extreme lefties at these meetings

 

[June4th]

There's one in every crowd.

Dare I ask what was said, or is it one of those things I'm better off nor knowing about?

A gentleman with a giant of a voice (boy, he didn't need the microphone), and somehow linked gun rights with legalizing prostitution. Were we in a liberterian convention, yeah, bring it on, but today wasn't the occasion.

 

[pastera]

A gentleman with a giant of a voice (boy, he didn't need the microphone), and somehow linked gun rights with legalizing prostitution. Were we in a liberterian convention, yeah, bring it on, but today wasn't the occasion.

He may not have needed a microphone but he sure needed some deodorant

 

[MA_Shooter]

Murder rate in MA has doubled since 1997 but is down about 40% for the US over the same period. Most of the country sees gun rights improve during those years and an improvement in murder rate. MA is the perfect test case for failed gun control since the 1998 legislation.

MA and IL (to wit, Chicago)

 

[MA_Shooter]

If there's any reason to suspect a license holder is involved in multiple firearms purchases for illegal street sales, the issuing authority can deny or revoke that license.

Good point..and they can do it at anytime. Due process is not afforded to an LTC holder.

 

[ThemBones]

"What I learned is that Massachusetts firearm laws are fraught with conflicts and vagueness. A licensed gun owner faces a lot of uncertainty and potential legal jeopardy."

This is the same conclusion I came too as well. You try to listen to people on this forum and get helpful opinions on sites like these from people 'in the know' but bottom line these people are not lawyers. There's a lot of gray areas which I frankly do not trust. For example, the soft case while transporting. I've been a LTC-A owner for about 1 year now and have tried to buy all my guns with the anticipation that these Mass laws will change in regards to not allowing pre-ban magazines...so I've only stuck with 10 rd magazines.

I'm originally from Texas so I'm in the process of having some family members locate a dealer they know in case I need to make a quick sale of my firearms, who would then sell back to my family members down there. I'll be damn if I'm allowing the local police to come snatch my $3,0000+ of new purchases just because I had 1 beer or got into a scuffle with some drunk loud mouth at Gillette Stadium (just giving easy examples of how trouble can find you unexpectedly). Frankly, I'm tired of trying to keep up with these Mass laws, political debates, and F'ing rallies (which I do support). So...hopefully, I can stay out of legal trouble for the next 10 years until my kids are old enough to go to college back in Texas or possibly Florida where we might move and join them.

 

[June4th]

Yep. Even some of the pro-gun folks quoted 'Massachusetts has one of nation's toughest gun laws' as some sort of badge of honor, I just wanted to say on the record, that 'the existing laws are F'd up, let's not make'em F'd up even more'.

 

[HTRN]

Yep. Even some of the pro-gun folks quoted 'Massachusetts has one of nation's toughest gun laws' as some sort of badge of honor, I just wanted to say on the record, that 'the existing laws are F'd up, let's not make'em F'd up even more'.

Sometimes the way to fix something is to go FR. Then it becomes indisputable.

 

[Grace]

There was a 28-yr-old mom of two boys who testified before me. She told me her NES handle but I didn't hear clearly with someone else talking. She was excellent, and kudos to the two young boys who patiently and politely sat hours through the session!

Thanks, Mr. June! That was me and my boys. I'm sorry they kept bumping your seat, and that I didn't get to hear your testimony, but you were spot on. Thanks for your articulate points.

Cautiously optimistic at this point. The crowd seemed 60-40 pro gun rights, and we made some great effective arguments. The commitee however was more receptive to the anti's. They were sure to thank all of them for their time and letting them speak for 3+ minutes while cutting short the pro's. I agree that they must share a fact sheet with all the 'this is the first comprehensive look at gun laws in 15 years' and 'gun ownership is a privilege, you should insure it like I insure my car', that 'Massachusetts has the second lowest gun deaths in the country', 'I cried for days after Newtown and resolved to change something'...

I thought I was going to have a coronary after 'women are more likely to be overpowered and shot by their own weapon' guy. UGGGHH.

Wacky pro-prostitution guy...well, thanks for the effort.

Mr. Knob Creek you did great You're testimony seemed to reasonate with the board.

Thank you to all that went. If you plan on attending the next hearings, my advice would be to adress specific bills in your testimony and how they will change you and your family's lives. I admit I feel a bit of a high from speaking and exercising my civic responsibility today. I recommend it!

 

[Coyote33]

I have felt great after past hearings also. The sad truth is that the politicians sitting up there are cowards. They will vote the way the leadership wants them to vote, or they don't get their plum seats with monetary or other perks. Simply put, we need a way to reach the leadership. I think the only way to do that is to fill the lower seats with people on our side, and build an entire new legislature. Leah Cole just won in Peabody. There is your start. Now, Carol Claros is running for Fresolo's seat in Worcester. Here's your chance. Support Carol and Leah, and the next ones coming after. One by one, we will pick up seats, build a majority, and at the same time create new leadership. We also need to do this at the town level, to have a steady supply of candidates to go to the state. Think about running for Selectman, School Committee, zoning board, or some other small seat, or question those running where they stand. THIS is truly the only way we will make true progress.

 

[shadowr434]

Beretta92FS - The storage laws would be for particular long guns only, basically the most common and popular rifles owned today - the AR platforms... along with a select group of other "scary" looking arms.

The idea is that these particularly dangerous weapons (used in less that 2% of all firearm deaths), will no longer be able to be used in crimes. This one to me is absolutely a reaction to Newtown. At the Franklin meeting a very well studied and spoken Prof. Leverentez stated - "Responding based on rare events and fears can create policies that are really problematic". Both Professors stated similar findings in there combined decades of research.

It was also stated in the Franklin meeting that no one hunts with these type of weapons, nor is a good choice for self defense. Nevermind if those OPINIONS are even correct... why is that decision up to anyone besides you and how you deem to protect you and yours?

You all make valid points. You should go to the hearings and have your voices heard.



*thanks mlaboss for the Professors quote above - I knew you had quoted it in a different thread.

By all means, go and let your voices be heard but don't be surprised when they ignore you like they did to us in CT.

 

[oldsoldier29]

We need to keep up the pressure at all these hearings. We need to attend, in numbers. They are well organized. Their playbook specifically states to play to emotions. When I speak next Wednesday, I fully intend to tell them how insulted I am, as an American, that I must beg for my rights in this state. Rights that are guaranteed to me.

sent via carrier pigeon from a secret squirrel camp

 

[Grace]

As it was reiterated to us repeatedly by grannies and friends of jorge, it is not our right but a privilege that has been bestowed to us.

 

[swatgig]

Linsky was promoting these at the forum in Bedford Monday night. I'd agree that the goal is to have more people hear from the gun control folks.

Linsky introduces himself by stating his credentials as a former prosecutor who prosecuted (I forget how many) homicide cases, and stating that seeing a dead child sticks with you, hence his 35 year effort to pass laws that will cut down on senseless deaths.

What I would love to find out is how many gun charges did he agree to drop during plea agreements.

 

[oldsoldier29]

As it was reiterated to us repeatedly by grannies and friends of jorge, it is not our right but a privilege that has been bestowed to us.

And my speech will talk to my rights, not privileges. These are the lies we must dismantle. I would call them myths, but myths usually have some truth. These certainly don't.

sent via carrier pigeon from a secret squirrel camp