Trigger Warning Queer & Trans Gun Club takes up arms

[EJFudd]

Is his name John Rosenthal?

Ha!!! Nope. I think John Rosenthal is much, much worse.

 

[42!]

First time poster, long time reader. And by long time I mean about 11 or so months.

I don't often see things that I'm both passionate and knowledgeable about posted (until now!) so I have mostly been just that - a reader.

I'd like to preface this with saying......

lgalarn, first welcome to NES. There are is a lot of sarcasm and strong opinions, and it's not a place for the thin skinned, but on the whole it's a good crowd. And go green (because someone is going to say it sooner or later).

I think you're over thinking things a little, I can't speak for FL, but even those who have an issue with LBGT around here are usually polite enough not to make a public scene. And I think you handled the questions fine, as you said kids have no filter. And if the kids old enough to ask, then they are old enough for their parents to explain how they feel if it doesn't fit with what you said.

As for bathrooms I figure we'll end up with unisex restrooms at some point, as long as there are cubes around the toilets and partitions between the urinals I don't see it as a problem. Parents, of any gender can accompany their children if they feel it's necessary. I would hope that the traditional 2 restrooms continue in schools (high school and below), most kids at that point have not matured enough to be responsible adults about a lot of things and we don't need to get into the whole gender debate just yet.

I do have one question for you, and this fits in with my personal belief that what others do is their business as long as it doesn't interfere with someone else's rights. If a baker does not share your belief on gay marriage, should he be forced to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, when he doesn't want to?

 

[CosmicIrony]

The description says they are arming themselves against the extreme right. I think that's us?

Only if you try to take away their rights.

 

[namedpipes]

Only if you try to take away their rights.

That's the thing. Nobody in a place more Urban than Bug Tussle Tennessee has tried to do that in a dog's age. Nobody cares anymore. To speak of, anyway. It's utterly impossible to achieve 100% acceptance by everyone everywhere.

So who is trying to take away your rights? What rights are being taken away from you?

 

[Spanz]

One thing that drives the anti-2a types is fear. Fear of guns. It's even mentioned in the video. But learning about them and using them at a range on a regular basis, in a social setting, removes that fear. This will normalize gun ownership in their eyes and they will start to replace fear with facts and realize that guns are tools, nothing more, and shooting is fun.

people have all types of hangups. Lets say you go to Home Depot and buy a nice new circular saw. Then you take it home, plug her in, and manage to slice 4 fingers off? Should you have "feared" the saw?
Uh, NO! It is just sitting there, on the work table, not plugged in, safe as can be.
But when you plug it in, you have to KNOW THE RULES. Hold onto it with both hands. Support the wood you are cutting so it does not move, or pinch the blade. Make sure the blade can not saw thru your leg while you are cutting. Wait until it spins down before putting it down.

SOMEONE has to show you how to use it and the RULES for safe use.

Guns are no different. In an untrained hand, like a little kid, then can be dangerous. THAT is why people need training. THAT is why young kids need to be introduced to safe gun handling. This scary fear stuff....its like fake news....people are running with it, pretending it is real. It is not. it is just a tool to use.

 

[lgalarn]

No, I don't think you should HAVE to bake me a cake, and if your views are that bigoted, I wouldn't WANT you to bake my cake.

However, I understand that this is the beginning of a slippery slope. What happens when I get into a car accident and the person driving the ambulance thinks gays are an abomination according to their religion? Are they not required to give me life saving medical attention and transport me to a hospital?

 

[lgalarn]

That's the thing. Nobody in a place more Urban than Bug Tussle Tennessee has tried to do that in a dog's age. Nobody cares anymore. To speak of, anyway. It's utterly impossible to achieve 100% acceptance by everyone everywhere.

So who is trying to take away your rights? What rights are being taken away from you?

This is not true. I'm from Jacksonville Florida and they try and succeed very regularly to pass ordinances that take away rights for LGBT community. Before I left they managed to pass a law that allowed discrimination against LGBT. Jacksonville was also one of those places that the clerk refused to sign marriage licenses after it was passed federally.

Our Vice President is one of the leading anti lgbt politicians. And he's 2nd only to the POTUS.

 

[RImike]

No, I don't think you should HAVE to bake me a cake, and if your views are that biggoted, I wouldn't WANT you to bake my cake.

However, I understand that this is the beginning of a slippery slope. What happens when I get into a car accident and the person driving the ambulance thinks gays are an abomination according to their religion? Are they not required to give me life saving medical attention and transport me to a hospital?

I'm quite certain first responders fall into a different category over bakers. Also most first responders are employed by the state and thus obligated to offer assistance vs a baker which is a private entity.

 

[AKMguy912]

The way I look at it -- the more the merrier. I think we need more hardcore progressives to support the 2A, and we as gun folk, need to lessen that 'far right conservative' approach to SOME things but not to EVERYTHING (notice I say some but not all, because the "shall not infringe" notion can never be compromised). Furthermore, they're very good at getting what they want as far as jack-hammering the **** out of leading officials. Every little bit counts when it comes to gun rights!

 

[CRSIII]

Igalarn, welcome to NES.
Your ambulance analogy can apply to any of us, it can go both ways, azzholes gonna azzhole.
Your story about the kid? I would have love to have been a fly on the wall for that! "capes are cool" Priceless!
Stick around, as you can give input that's hard to find around here.
So, put on your Carhardts, and show no fear!

ETA Dam i type slow!

 

[lgalarn]

I'm quite certain first responders fall into a different category over bakers. Also most first responders are employed by the state and thus obligated to offer assistance vs a baker which is a private entity.

All I'm saying is it's a slippery slope. Once that happens then what? What about a privately owned prisons? What if public transportatiin becomes privatized like they're trying to do with our MBTA in Boston?

 

[lgalarn]

Igalarn, welcome to NES.
Your ambulance analogy can apply to any of us, it can go both ways, azzholes gonna azzhole.
Your story about the kid? I would have love to have been a fly on the wall for that! "capes are cool" Priceless!
Stick around, as you can give input that's hard to find around here.
So, put on your Carhardts, and show no fear!

ETA Dam i type slow!

Thank you.

I'm not going anywhere. I don't scare easy. Like I said before most of the responses I've seen have been totally respectful. I've grown a thick skin in my 28 years, I've had to being gay in the bible belt.

One thing I can promise is you'll never see me posting on things I don't know about. Which is why I've waited until now to post anything.

This stuff, I know about.

I'll be happy to challenge you guys on this stuff and show another perspective. I've learned an awful lot being a spectator this past year, I think I owe you guys that much.

 

[babygorilla]

Good for them. I'm in the "I don't are who you eff, as long as you don't try to do it in front of me" crowd. Straight, gay whatever, same opinion. And being one of the few professed agnostic atheists on here, don't give an eff about the God angle.

The only thing I can't stand is aholes. And those come in all shapes and colors. Anyone who is an SJW or otherwise that tries to push their opinions or beliefs on me, or try to take away a right or liberty or possession of mine can FOAD. I'm a live and let live type, you do you, I do me, and don't eff with my stuff and I won't eff with yours.

The cake question is pretty good though from 42! I would be interested in lgalarn's position on that. Me, owner has the right to refuse anyone for any reason. Even me.

 

[GaryO]

Good for them for learning about firearms but shooting at paper targets or clay pigeons just because it makes them feel like Rambo or Rambette won't help them much if they decide to shoot at someone who can shoot back. Given the hysteria the left shows on a regular basis tells me that these people would be the spray and pray crowd.
Um I'm not a professional trap shooter but I don't see too many people shooting clays with a scope.

 

[namedpipes]

No, I don't think you should HAVE to bake me a cake, and if your views are that bigoted, I wouldn't WANT you to bake my cake.

However, I understand that this is the beginning of a slippery slope. What happens when I get into a car accident and the person driving the ambulance thinks gays are an abomination according to their religion? Are they not required to give me life saving medical attention and transport me to a hospital?

No, that was a an example from the news a while back. If I don't give you any cake it's because I ate it all, not because of your orientation.

The ambulance thing - no, clearly public services cannot discriminate like that but just as a bar "ought" to be able to allow or ban smoking, or Chinese restaurants prefer to hire Chinese waitstaff, I don't think we should be able to compel private business to service customers they don't want to. That bakery has a right be a bunch of a**holes. I have a right to buy my cake from the shop across the street if I so desire.

... One thing I can promise is you'll never see me posting on things I don't know about. Which is why I've waited until now to post anything. ...

Well don't let THAT hold you back! It doesn't keep anybody else (self included) from bombasting on things we know nothing about.

 

[CRSIII]

Well don't let THAT hold you back! It doesn't keep anybody else (self included) from bombasting on things we know nothing about.

Case in point.

 

[42!]

No, I don't think you should HAVE to bake me a cake, and if your views are that bigoted, I wouldn't WANT you to bake my cake.

However, I understand that this is the beginning of a slippery slope. What happens when I get into a car accident and the person driving the ambulance thinks gays are an abomination according to their religion? Are they not required to give me life saving medical attention and transport me to a hospital?

Good answer. But the ambulance example is a different category, it's public service not private business, and different rules apply.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[namedpipes]

Case in point.

What sort of gravy would one use, anyway?

 

[lgalarn]

The ambulance thing - no, clearly public services cannot discriminate like that but just as a bar "ought" to be able to allow or ban smoking, or Chinese restaurants prefer to hire Chinese waitstaff, I don't think we should be able to compel private business to service customers they don't want to. That bakery has a right be a bunch of a**holes. I have a right to buy my cake from the shop across the street if I so desire.

This is exactly right. But let me digress and play devils advocate for a minute. I'm going to go down this road because I think it may put it into terms that more people can relate to...

#1: You walk into a cake shop with your NRA patch on your hat. They refuse service because they don't believe people should have gun rights. You say fine and walk to another bakery. Later that day you are apartment hunting and the landlord showing you the apartment (THAT YOU LOVE) says "sorry you can't own guns in my apartment" you say "okay" and keep looking. Finally you get your apartment and you hire movers, the entire time the movers are there they are hitting on your wife/gf saying "why does your husband/bf need guns? He's obviously not man enough for you." (okay this part is a little ridiculous but stay with me because I'm trying to relate this as close to gay rights as I can, and this happens to me with my wife ALL THE TIME). Then you go into work the next day to the new job you just started, where you were hired by one of the owners. You have your NRA jacket over your shirt and tie, or whatever other uniform it may be (it's a little chilly this morning). You knock on the door because you don't have a key yet and a different owner answers and looks at you shocked when you say you're the new employee. They tell you to wait by the door and disappear into the back for 2 minutes and when they return they tell you they won't be needing your help after all. And as they close the door behind you they rehang the "help wanted" sign in the window. How long do you let things like this continue?

#2: You're going to a family gathering and you have your trusty Sig tucked at 5 o'clock just like you always do. Your mom says "don't you dare come in this house until you get rid of that thing."

#3: You're out to dinner and someone in the restaurant sees your NRA patch. They come up to you, scream that you're a Redneck, you're what's wrong with this country, saying it's a choice to love guns etc. You say nothing, but then YOU'RE asked to leave the restaurant for causing a commotion.

Then this happens:

#4: Someone owns a cake shop and they're totally fine with anybody who wants to buy their cakes. They have a day off and their assistant manager refuses to sell a cake to a person carrying an NRA duffel bag. They come back, furious, because they're a small business owner and they can't refuse or lose any business. Not only that but now this snafu is on the local news and they're worried that they're going to lose a lot more business than just that one transaction. So they fire their assistant manager. Now it's a week later and they get a letter from the snot nosed assistants lawyer, they're being sued for infringing upon their freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. Now because of this lawsuit there is NATIONAL attention and could very well decide that anyone wearing anything NRA can be discriminated against where ever they go by not only the owner of the shop but anybody working there. What is your position?

When you think of it as someone systematically chipping away at your rights, your freedoms, daily you will do ANYTHING to keep any one of those. Any battle you can fight, no matter how small, how insignificant it may seem so that someone else doesn't have to experience the pains of being a gun owner. Because if you let one thing go, if you let your guard down on one issue, one case, it can snowball on for years.

So the cake thing - I get it everyone should have the freedoms to refuse service to anyone. Does your assistant manager have the same right? Do you then have the right to fire them? Do you have the right to fire someone because they're gay even though they're already hired, signed a contract, etc with someone else in the company? Even though they just bought a new car or moved into a more expensive apartment because of that contract they signed with you?

When you're in a war, in the trenches, you don't give up one inch to the other side. Even if you're on the wrong side. And sometimes you don't know which side is the wrong side until much later.

 

[pastera]

No, I don't think you should HAVE to bake me a cake, and if your views are that bigoted, I wouldn't WANT you to bake my cake.

However, I understand that this is the beginning of a slippery slope. What happens when I get into a car accident and the person driving the ambulance thinks gays are an abomination according to their religion? Are they not required to give me life saving medical attention and transport me to a hospital?

As a card carrying right-wing, Bible thumping, home schooling, evangelical, CIS gendered, white male I can partially answer your question - We don't care. As long as I am not required to participate in activities I don't agree with, you will be afforded the same respect and treatment as anyone else.

Do I believe you can be "married" in the biblical covenant sense, no. However, the government stepped in and polluted the pool by assigning benefits to a religious covenant (because of racism) so those benefits are absolutely open to those that wish to partake even if they don't fit the religious definitions. You will be treated like any other couple, with dignity and respect for the love and care you share with others. Anyone living by Romans 5:8 cannot look at another person and ascribe anything other than God's love, period. Hard concept for a lot of people to get, especially the cafeteria Christians who deem themselves the holiest of all. I can go further but this is not a bible lesson (remember the thumper comment).

 

[lgalarn]

Once again this is a problem created by government that aggrieved parties are looking to government intervention to solve........too bad these morons cant grasp the notion that the solution lies in removing gov from the equasion....not inserting it further

You're correct, to an extent. The problem lies within the fact that this is a minority group fighting for a right that the majority does not want them to have.

Lets take this example back to gun ownership here in MA. Obviously this most recent "Copy Cat" mandate from Maura Healey is a perfect example of government over reach. Would you rather get a majority vote, which may NEVER happen in MA to vote that back since pro 2A is so clearly a minority in this state or have one court case that says "Oh this is obviously illegal" and have it repealed that way?

You can not ever count on the majority to stick their necks out for the minority.

 

[Supermoto]

You're correct, to an extent. The problem lies within the fact that this is a minority group fighting for a right that the majority does not want them to have.

The better fight would be to remove government from the marriage equation all together. Wouldn't it be better not to have to get the gov permission to marry.

Equal rights will only happen when there is no government involvement

 

[lgalarn]

Equal rights will only happen when there is no government involvement

I'm not sure if that's true or not as we've never seen or known anything different in modern day government.

What I do know is that what we're doing currently isn't working for anybody. The media is making it worse by inflating instances of racism and homophobia as to divide us further down party lines making the right go farther right and the left go farther left.

People have forgotten entirely that there is a middle and that the majority of people do have the "live and let live" mentality.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The better fight would be to remove government from the marriage equation all together. Wouldn't it be better not to have to get the gov permission to marry.

Society would need something to replace marriage, even if it was a simple declaration of life partner filed at the town hall.

There are many logistical things that go with the state sanction that extend beyond tax status - for example, default inheritance; next of kin status for medical treatment; etc.

 

[namedpipes]

This is exactly right. But let me digress and play devils advocate for a minute. I'm going to go down this road because I think it may put it into terms that more people can relate to...

#1: You walk into a cake shop with your NRA patch on your hat. They refuse service because they don't believe people should have gun rights. You say fine and walk to another bakery. Later that day you are apartment hunting and the landlord showing you the apartment (THAT YOU LOVE) says "sorry you can't own guns in my apartment" you say "okay" and keep looking. Finally you get your apartment and you hire movers, the entire time the movers are there they are hitting on your wife/gf saying "why does your husband/bf need guns? He's obviously not man enough for you." (okay this part is a little ridiculous but stay with me because I'm trying to relate this as close to gay rights as I can, and this happens to me with my wife ALL THE TIME). Then you go into work the next day to the new job you just started, where you were hired by one of the owners. You have your NRA jacket over your shirt and tie, or whatever other uniform it may be (it's a little chilly this morning). You knock on the door because you don't have a key yet and a different owner answers and looks at you shocked when you say you're the new employee. They tell you to wait by the door and disappear into the back for 2 minutes and when they return they tell you they won't be needing your help after all. And as they close the door behind you they rehang the "help wanted" sign in the window. How long do you let things like this continue?

For the most part these are private parties exercising their right to be a somewhat despicable bigot. Would you want to work for someone like that? Would you take an apartment knowing the landlord is a hoplophobe?


#2: You're going to a family gathering and you have your trusty Sig tucked at 5 o'clock just like you always do. Your mom says "don't you dare come in this house until you get rid of that thing."

True story: My wife made it clear she hates guns. She's instructed me not to carry when we go out in public together. I smile, nod and ignore the statement. As for other family my response would be "as soon as you welcome me WITH said Sig, I'll be happy to visit you again. Until then, sadly, I cannot come to your house anymore."


#3: You're out to dinner and someone in the restaurant sees your NRA patch. They come up to you, scream that you're a Redneck, you're what's wrong with this country, saying it's a choice to love guns etc. You say nothing, but then YOU'RE asked to leave the restaurant for causing a commotion.

A little tougher. I guess I would find a restaurant that suited my tastes better, honestly. I certainly wouldn't pay for my unfinished meal and would happily explain the situation to the police and later, in court, if it came to that. The resulting negative publicity would likely cost the restaurant more than comping the meal.


Then this happens:

#4: Someone owns a cake shop and they're totally fine with anybody who wants to buy their cakes. They have a day off and their assistant manager refuses to sell a cake to a person carrying an NRA duffel bag. They come back, furious, because they're a small business owner and they can't refuse or lose any business. Not only that but now this snafu is on the local news and they're worried that they're going to lose a lot more business than just that one transaction. So they fire their assistant manager. Now it's a week later and they get a letter from the snot nosed assistants lawyer, they're being sued for infringing upon their freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. Now because of this lawsuit there is NATIONAL attention and could very well decide that anyone wearing anything NRA can be discriminated against where ever they go by not only the owner of the shop but anybody working there. What is your position?

The snot nosed assistant has no standing. They weren't harmed, just fired.


When you think of it as someone systematically chipping away at your rights, your freedoms, daily you will do ANYTHING to keep any one of those. Any battle you can fight, no matter how small, how insignificant it may seem so that someone else doesn't have to experience the pains of being a gun owner. Because if you let one thing go, if you let your guard down on one issue, one case, it can snowball on for years.

I have lived my entire life with that, wrt my RKBA. That's close to six decades. I've lived two states that entire time and both are violently anti-gun.


So the cake thing - I get it everyone should have the freedoms to refuse service to anyone. Does your assistant manager have the same right? Do you then have the right to fire them? Do you have the right to fire someone because they're gay even though they're already hired, signed a contract, etc with someone else in the company? Even though they just bought a new car or moved into a more expensive apartment because of that contract they signed with you?

All those things are private / civil disputes. Nothing to do with rights at all.


When you're in a war, in the trenches, you don't give up one inch to the other side. Even if you're on the wrong side. And sometimes you don't know which side is the wrong side until much later.

Here, we're one hundred percent in agreement!

Inline...

 

[Supermoto]

People have forgotten entirely that there is a middle and that the majority of people do have the "live and let live" mentality.

The middle ground is the problem, people are only from the freedoms they like

Nothing additional is required.

Go to a lawyer and draw up an agreement

Yep, no need to petition the Crown for their blessing

 

[lgalarn]

Nothing additional is required.

Go to a lawyer and draw up an agreement

The problem is who is there to enforce this "agreement" and where is the consistency from agreement to agreement? Who decides if this agreement applies to health insurance or buying a house together?

What if I go to the hospital and die and my mom says "I don't believe in that 'agreement' all her stuff belongs to me."

There has to be a governing body that says "this agreement means is defined as _____ and everyone has to treat it as such."

 

[Supermoto]

The problem is who is there to enforce this "agreement" and where is the consistency from agreement to agreement? Who decides if this agreement applies to health insurance or buying a house together?

What if I go to the hospital and die and my mom says "I don't believe in that 'agreement' all her stuff belongs to me."

There has to be a governing body that says "this agreement means is defined as _____ and everyone has to treat it as such."

You can have the government enforce the marriage agreement, just like any other agreement, but not be a party to its approval.

There doesn't need to be a governing body to make them consistent. The parties involved will decide the terms. Why should their be consistency? People marry for different reasons. Let them decide the benefits and terms of the agreement

 

[pastera]

I believe that jpk is completely correct - the government stepped in and gave benefits to a group defined by religious tenants. The court screwed up in allowing "gay marriage" when it should have tossed out the entire idea of government approved, endorsed, and subsidized marriage. Either way, I don't believe the majority of non-involved people actually care enough about LGBTQ issues to effect change either way - past the minority "look at me" virtue signalling both pro and con.

Same thing goes for 2A issues - You should be able to possess any arm you want until you are adjudicated as unable to handle that right. The government shouldn't even be able to discuss restrictions.

- - - Updated - - -

I believe that jpk is completely correct - the government stepped in and gave benefits to a group defined by religious tenants. The court screwed up in allowing "gay marriage" when it should have tossed out the entire idea of government approved, endorsed, and subsidized marriage. Either way, I don't believe the majority of non-involved people actually care enough about LGBTQ issues to effect change either way - past the minority "look at me" virtue signalling both pro and con.

Same thing goes for 2A issues - You should be able to possess any arm you want until you are adjudicated as unable to handle that right. The government shouldn't even be able to discuss restrictions.

 

[42!]

You've put a number of different situations under #1 so this will be a little confusing, but here goes..

This is exactly right. But let me digress and play devils advocate for a minute. I'm going to go down this road because I think it may put it into terms that more people can relate to...

#1: You walk into a cake shop with your NRA patch on your hat. They refuse service because they don't believe people should have gun rights. You say fine and walk to another bakery.

Perfectly OK. Private business. In fact there are a number of businesses that have self labeled as gun free zones. And while this signage is not binding in MA, if you are asked to leave for any reason, or no reason, you must leave or be subject to criminal trespassing charges.

Later that day you are apartment hunting and the landlord showing you the apartment (THAT YOU LOVE) says "sorry you can't own guns in my apartment" you say "okay" and keep looking.

Now we are getting into what happens behind closed doors. Assuming this is actually stated in the lease agreement I would have a choice of complying, ignoring it (lieing to him), or going elsewhere. But first a question, why would I love an apartment with a landlord like this? But to your point, his property his rules, I move on and find an apartment I do love.

Finally you get your apartment and you hire movers, the entire time the movers are there they are hitting on your wife/gf saying "why does your husband/bf need guns? He's obviously not man enough for you." (okay this part is a little ridiculous but stay with me because I'm trying to relate this as close to gay rights as I can, and this happens to me with my wife ALL THE TIME).

You're right, this is ridiculous and can happen regardless of preference or gun ownership and you deal with it.

Then you go into work the next day to the new job you just started, where you were hired by one of the owners. You have your NRA jacket over your shirt and tie, or whatever other uniform it may be (it's a little chilly this morning). You knock on the door because you don't have a key yet and a different owner answers and looks at you shocked when you say you're the new employee. They tell you to wait by the door and disappear into the back for 2 minutes and when they return they tell you they won't be needing your help after all. And as they close the door behind you they rehang the "help wanted" sign in the window. How long do you let things like this continue?

You're mixing a few things here but I'll try to answer. First, MA is an at will state. You can be fired at any time without reason. The first question is, can an employer fire you for your appearance, clothing that clearly promotes something that the owner feels is detrimental to the image of the company? I would hope they would give you the opportunity to remove the jacket/patch (this could be an NRA or LGBT patch), but ultimately yes they can. And I have worked at a company where I can guarantee you had I in any way indicated gun ownership, or even just support of 2a, I would have been given the choice of removing it or being fired.

As for the different owner scenario. Unless you deliberately mislead the original owner as to how you would be dessing (representing the business), and this is not specific to being gay, sounds like they have an internal problem, and it should be addressed with the original owner who presumably had no issue. But I wouldn't want to work anywhere where the owners are not in agreement. On the other hand, if you show up with clothing that actively promote something the owner feels does not fit with the business (NRA or LGBT patch), then yes they can let you go. The simple fact is that if a business keeps turning away qualified people for any reason that will not negatively impact their business, then it will hurt their business, and the problem will self correct over time. The business will fail, let it happen. BTW I've run into some age discrimination lately so I have some understanding, but I move on. If they don't want my experience why would I want to be there?

#2: You're going to a family gathering and you have your trusty Sig tucked at 5 o'clock just like you always do. Your mom says "don't you dare come in this house until you get rid of that thing."

Comes up all the time on NES. Their house their rules. And concealed means concealed.

#3: You're out to dinner and someone in the restaurant sees your NRA patch. They come up to you, scream that you're a Redneck, you're what's wrong with this country, saying it's a choice to love guns etc. You say nothing, but then YOU'RE asked to leave the restaurant for causing a commotion.

I think you're pushing it a bit at this point. If you are just passively sitting there and someone comes up to you and creates a disturbance, and the owner didn't have a problem with you to begin with, then I don't see this happening. If you "get into it" with the other person then sure you might be asked to leave. Even more likely if the owner didn't see the start and only came in after you were already "involved". But again, private business, their choice, and why would you want to be there? Oh, and you can trash him on social media

#4: Someone owns a cake shop and they're totally fine with anybody who wants to buy their cakes. They have a day off and their assistant manager refuses to sell a cake to a person carrying an NRA duffel bag. They come back, furious, because they're a small business owner and they can't refuse or lose any business. Not only that but now this snafu is on the local news and they're worried that they're going to lose a lot more business than just that one transaction. So they fire their assistant manager. Now it's a week later and they get a letter from the snot nosed assistants lawyer, they're being sued for infringing upon their freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. Now because of this lawsuit there is NATIONAL attention and could very well decide that anyone wearing anything NRA can be discriminated against where ever they go by not only the owner of the shop but anybody working there. What is your position?

Internal issue. Dealt with by the owner. And you're stretching it again. No business owner is going to employ anyone who is going to turn away business that the owner finds acceptable. It is not freedom of speech to undermine the profitability of the business you work for when you are being paid to represent them. People get fired all the time for saying/doing something their employer feels is detrimental to the business's image.

When you think of it as someone systematically chipping away at your rights, your freedoms, daily you will do ANYTHING to keep any one of those. Any battle you can fight, no matter how small, how insignificant it may seem so that someone else doesn't have to experience the pains of being a gun owner. Because if you let one thing go, if you let your guard down on one issue, one case, it can snowball on for years.

But reactions need to be kept in proportion and you can't violate another person's rights regardless of what the outcome will be. The end does NOT justify the means. And true societal change comes over time, you can not force it. You fight the good fight and keep at it.

So the cake thing - I get it everyone should have the freedoms to refuse service to anyone. Does your assistant manager have the same right? Do you then have the right to fire them? Do you have the right to fire someone because they're gay even though they're already hired, signed a contract, etc with someone else in the company? Even though they just bought a new car or moved into a more expensive apartment because of that contract they signed with you?

If the owner/manager is not there then the assistant Manager speaks for the business. At will employee, anyone can be fired with or without reason. Why would being gay even come up? Employment contracts only exist at the executive level, and unions, and the contract will spell out how and why they can be terminated. The last question doesn't apply because it assumes a contract which, if one exists, will outline the how and why termination may occur.

When you're in a war, in the trenches, you don't give up one inch to the other side. Even if you're on the wrong side. And sometimes you don't know which side is the wrong side until much later.

This isn't war, no one is shooting at you. And this sounds suspiciously like an "the ends justify the means" argument, which it does not.