Trigger Warning Queer & Trans Gun Club takes up arms

[GaryO]

I've been accused of various -isms in the past and in truth I'm not guilty. Just to qualify myself () I have quite a well-known M to F transgender friend/acquaintance.

All I ask really is reverse tolerance. We should all live and let live. Unfortunately there are extremists in every special interest group whose true desire is to dominate and control and I refuse to let that pass without comment, as futile as it may be.

I have gay family members and it's never been an issue. Although my parents accepted it, they weren't happy. With them it was a generational thing but they raised us to accept all people. Growing up my parents were emergency foster parents and we had all colors and genders. It was just a normal thing. I think a lot of people play the victim card and that's the real problem.

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[lgalarn]

Hey, I was (sadly) a leftist, until I got into firearms. Now I consider myself a centrist, maybe they will too.

I've always considered myself pretty moderate as well even before the firearms. Does that mean I'm right leaning?

 

[GaryO]

I've always considered myself pretty moderate as well even before the firearms. Does that mean I'm right leaning?

It means that you are a jbt with sexual inadequacies.

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[Supermoto]

You are not really asking for governments permission to get married since nobody is ever told no.

What about polygamists? They aren't granted permission to marry.

 

[lgalarn]

Seems apparent to me that in a lot of cases you are conflating/confusing rights and privileges.

Everyone has a RIGHT to free asssociation

No one has a RIGHT to welfare/food stamps or anything else derived from the confiscation of labor/private property of other people......none of these are rights....they are privileges.

Equal opportunity is a very different thing than Equal OUTCOMES. ("Pursuit of happiness.....")

I fear we're back to that chip on the shoulder?

I'm sorry, I think you're the one that keeps coming back to the chip on my shoulder (or is that the chip on my shoulder too?)

Again, I think you're missing my point. The point of the 4 situation post was to put you in the shoes of someone who experiences discrimination on a daily basis because it does happen. Whether you believe it or not, which, don't care if you do, just trying to share another perspective.

I personally share the same sentiments as most of you, if you don't want to provide me a service, I'll move on. I won't forget that you're a bigot or that it happened, but I'll move on.

When it comes to equal protections and equal RIGHTS, not privileges, this is a new thing in our country. And in some parts of the country, still being fought against.

 

[mibro]

I'm sorry, I think you're the one that keeps coming back to the chip on my shoulder (or is that the chip on my shoulder too?)

Again, I think you're missing my point. The point of the 4 situation post was to put you in the shoes of someone who experiences discrimination on a daily basis because it does happen. Whether you believe it or not, which, don't care if you do, just trying to share another perspective.

I personally share the same sentiments as most of you, if you don't want to provide me a service, I'll move on. I won't forget that you're a bigot or that it happened, but I'll move on.

When it comes to equal protections and equal RIGHTS, not privileges, this is a new thing in our country. And in some parts of the country, still being fought against.

These discussions always arrive at this point and usually just as quickly.

Bottom line is your rights often conflict with my rights and at present your rights are more equal than mine. I have no solution to offer to this conflict unfortunately.

 

[lgalarn]

There we go again......leftists cant make the argument to support their positions and suddenly they accuse people of being racist/sexist/ *-ist

Once again you fail to make the distinction between rights and privs

You have a right to choose who to associate with (assuming its reciprocated)....if you truly believe this then you necessarily have to advocate for the removal of Gov from the equasion.......so long as Gov is involved then it will always pick winners/losers etc.

But dont expect the rest of us to buy into the notion that SPECIAL rights/privs should be extended to any of the proverbial leftist "Protected Classes"......your rights end where mine begin and vice versa.

Life is tough for everyone......only difference or the majority of the rest of us is that we dont blame bumps in the road on some protected class status.

Keep going down the road you're on and you'll very quickly alienate the very significant population of pro liberty/libertarian folks out there

You are so far away from the spirit of the conversation I was trying to have.

When did I ever insinuate let alone outright accuse anyone here of bigotry?

And again I'm not asking for special rights at all, ever, just the same rights afforded to everyone else.

If you're insinuating, again, that maybe every day encounters I had I just assumed were homophobia, it's pretty hard to mistake someone spitting in your face and calling you a fa**ot for anything but that. Or when 3 dudes follow you to your car to beat the sh*t out of you and call you a d*ke because the only other girl at the bar was talking to you. Or someone keying the hood of your car with the word fa**ot. Please, explain how that is not homophobia? And yes all of that has also happened to me.

I'm literally not asking for anything special. Maybe some people on the left go too far, some people on the right do as well. That's why they're called extremist. All I'm talking about is EQUALITY. Don't give me something I didn't earn. Just simple human decency.

 

[lgalarn]

Like it or not you're telling everyone that doesnt agree with your or give you what you what that they MUST be a bigot/sexist/insult of the week-ist

Maybe.....and I'll go out on a limb here.....just maybe thats not accurate

Discrimination - the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

All I'm saying is that when a landlord tells me he doesn't want 2 girls on a lease, in an apartment building full of college kids that's likely discrimination.

When an employer decides to fire me after LOOKING at me it's probably discrimination.

You ever watch that Jeff Foxworthy sketch where he says "you're probably a redneck."

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

And once again the discrimination came before the chip.

 

[mibro]

Discrimination - the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

All I'm saying is that when a landlord tells me he doesn't want 2 girls on a lease, in an apartment building full of college kids that's likely discrimination.

When an employer decides to fire me after LOOKING at me it's probably discrimination.

You ever watch that Jeff Foxworthy sketch where he says "you're probably a redneck."

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

And once again the discrimination came before the chip.

If it's any consolation I've been fired twice because my employer didn't like me. The grass is not necessarily greener over here.

 

[lgalarn]

Like it or not you're telling everyone that doesnt agree with your or give you what you what that they MUST be a bigot/sexist/insult of the week-ist

Maybe.....and I'll go out on a limb here.....just maybe thats not accurate

Also, I don't think anyone that doesn't agree with/give me what I want me is a bigot.

My wife frequently disagrees with me.

I'm saying that there are probably 20 times in my life when discrimination has had a DIRECT impact on me. More than just the passing comment. I didn't retaliate, I moved on. But I never forgot, and never gave them my business, and certainly did not refer people to the businesses.

 

[Whutmeworry]

Like it or not you're telling everyone that doesnt agree with your or give you what you what that they MUST be a bigot/sexist/insult of the week-ist

Maybe.....and I'll go out on a limb here.....just maybe thats not accurate

I really don't think that's what lgalarn is trying to say. I really think she's just saying that she's ok - in the case of a situations where she THINKS she MIGHT BE in in the process of being discriminated against by a business - with just walking away from the situation rather than filing a lawsuit or even giving the business owner a hard time. At the same time she'll be angry about it and won't patronize that establishment anymore. If that's the case (not trying to put words in your mouth lgalarn), then I agree totally with her that this the right approach.

 

[In God We Trust]

Trigger Warning Queer & Trans Gun Club takes up arms

Like it or not you're telling everyone that doesnt agree with your or give you what you what that they MUST be a bigot/sexist/insult of the week-ist

Maybe.....and I'll go out on a limb here.....just maybe thats not accurate

Ease back dude. She didn't say anything like that. She wants to not be discriminated against because of her sexual orientation. As a straight guy I want the same thing. I would have a pretty negative opinion and some unkind words if some business told me "we don't serve whites" (or straights) whatever.

I would also do everything I could to ruin that business on social media, yelp, the news, whatever I could to hurt them. Why? Because **** them, that's why.

I personally can't stand trannies. I don't hate them, I just don't want anything to do with them. If I owned a bar and trannies started hanging around, I wouldn't be rude to them or refuse them service. As long as their money was green, I wouldn't care

 

[lgalarn]

Again....in YOUR example you leap to conclusions based on your chip......its the lense through which you view the world

Dog forbid there's some other motivation why he doesnt want to rent to two girls like maybe they dont pay......

QFT....4 out of 5 women I rented a property to years back were a pain in the ****ing arse wrt payment.....it was NEVER on time and it was like 18th century dentistry getting paid

NEVER....not once did I have a problem with any of the dudes I rented to.

Not for one second did you even consider that there MAY be some other reason but the protected class conclusion that you drew

I'm pretty sure that is not the case as we ended up moving into the complex across the street and ended up befriending every person in the 4 unit building we were denied. 2 of them were straight couples 1 was a girl and the last unit was 2 girls. All the same age as us (college age).

And you're right, I didn't think anything else. I dress well, clean cut, I don't do drugs, I've always had nicer vehicles, I'm extremely polite, I'm well spoken, I conduct myself in a respectful manner, my credit is impeccable, I'm charming, funny, no pets (at the time), I tip well, I like long walks on the beach, and dinner with friends. Pretty normal, except I'm clearly gay.

 

[GaryO]

Again....in YOUR example you leap to conclusions based on your chip......its the lense through which you view the world

Dog forbid there's some other motivation why he doesnt want to rent to two girls like maybe they dont pay......

QFT....4 out of 5 women I rented a property to years back were a pain in the ****ing arse wrt payment.....it was NEVER on time and it was like 18th century dentistry getting paid

NEVER....not once did I have a problem with any of the dudes I rented to.....dudes were always straight up....gave notice before they left....women always just bolted....I always knew that if I didnt get rent 10 days after it was due that the women would be bolting at the end of the month and I should start thinking about new renter.....Not sexist....thats just my experience.

Not for one second did you even consider that there MAY be some other reason but the protected class conclusion that you drew

My best tenants were a lesbian couple. They paid early and kept the place immaculate. I actually felt bad asking them to move but I was converting my 2 family into a single family home. I received a call from a landlord that was going to rent to them and i told him that he would be crazy if he didn't rent to them.

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[In God We Trust]

Trigger Warning Queer & Trans Gun Club takes up arms

And I'd like to NOT be a tax mule because I dont have a gaggle of children sucking off the welfare state because I'm part of top 20% of earners because I bust my ass and as a result am part of the group that pays 84% of all taxes.....we could go on and on and on down the list off examples of "accepted" discrimination.

If we want to have a discussion about rights and privs and equality then lets have an open discussion about it right?

If folks want to be treated equally then they're going to start to have to start having a frank discussion about equal treatment

This thread was about gays and trannies buying guns, but somehow has devolved into baking cakes, marriage and tax rates.

My only real complaint about gays is that they have become the shock troops of the Democratic Party. They mainly vote that way because the left panders to them and the right kicks them in the teeth (like you are doing) every time they try to engage us.

Let's stay on topic and see how this nice lady feels about gun rights and maybe we can find some common ground on at least one issue. Baby steps, brother.

My biggest problem with demorats is the anti gun Bullshit. If they could let that go, I would be a lot more tolerant of them.

 

[lgalarn]

And I'd like to NOT be a tax mule because I dont have a gaggle of children sucking off the welfare state because I'm part of top 20% of earners because I bust my ass and as a result am part of the group that pays 84% of all taxes.....we could go on and on and on down the list off examples of "accepted" discrimination.

If we want to have a discussion about rights and privs and equality then lets have an open discussion about it right?

If folks want to be treated equally then they're going to start to have to start having a frank discussion about equal treatment

So you're mad at the gay community because the majority are left leaning and left leaning means entitlements such as welfare? And because of those entitlements you pay more taxes...

Sounds like someones got a chip on their shoulder lol.

For the record I make a lot of money too and have never been on welfare and I'm pretty peeved about it as well.

 

[lgalarn]

This thread was about gays and trannies buying guns, but somehow has devolved into baking cakes, marriage and tax rates.

My only real complaint about gays is that they have become the shock troops of the Democratic Party. They mainly vote that way because the left panders to them and the right kicks them in the teeth (like you are doing) every time they try to engage us.

Let's stay on topic and see how this nice lady feels about gun rights and maybe we can find some common ground on at least one issue. Baby steps, brother

Well said, I like guns and I think we should have them. Any kind. Any one, until they prove they can not/should not own them ie mental illness, VIOLENT criminal history, etc.

Maura Healey is a dictator. Someone should take her out shooting and educate her on guns. Maybe she wouldn't be so uptight.

 

[42!]

All I'm saying is that when a landlord tells me he doesn't want 2 girls on a lease, in an apartment building full of college kids that's likely discrimination.

When an employer decides to fire me after LOOKING at me it's probably discrimination.

I'm going to ask a couple questions here, simply because these are specific enough to do so.

Are you personally aware of a situation where this same landlord did rent to two women (two women on the lease, parent could be on the lease if we're talking college kids)? If you don't know this then your assumption that it was because of your sexual preference may not reflect the landlord's intent. Maybe he's sexist against women? Not really an improvement but the point is you need to know intent, which can be very difficult. Either way, why would you walt to rent from him? He loses a good tenant and you live somewhere where you don't have to put up with his BS.

Didn't your employer look at you when you were hired? What changed?

I guess I'm just more of the attitude that if someone wants to be an ass F'them I'll go elsewhere. My business has value, I'll give it to someone who wants it, and not really sweat their reasoning.

 

[Supermoto]

maybe we can find some common ground on at least one issue. .

The love of guns and boobs, if that can't bring us all together, I don't what will

 

[lgalarn]

I'm going to ask a couple questions here, simply because these are specific enough to do so.

Are you personally aware of a situation where this same landlord did rent to two women? If you don't know this then your assumption that it was because of your sexual preference may not reflect the landlord's intent. Maybe he's sexist against women? Not really an improvement but the point is you need to know intent, which can be very difficult. Either way, why would you walt to rent from him? He loses a good tenant and you live somewhere where you don't have to put up with his BS.

Didn't your employer look at you when you were hired? What changed?

I guess I'm just more of the attitude that if someone wants to be an ass F'them I'll go elsewhere. My business has value, I'll give it to someone who wants it, and not really sweat their reasoning.

For the landlord yes we moved into the unit across the street, found out 2/4 units were rented to women, 1 was 2 women. All my age.

The job thing was the wife hired me, husband fired me. She did see me in person, when he did my first 2 minutes he fired me. Literally wouldn't even shake my hand when I introduced myself. Hung the help wanted sign on the window as he was shutting the door behind me...

I'm of the same mindset. I said "f*** it" and found another apartment, another job. I certainly didn't refer anyone or frequent those businesses myself but I didn't retaliate in any way either. I get that not everyone is going to be comfortable around me and I deal with it. Doesn't mean that I forget about it either though.

 

[lgalarn]

How much luck have you seen in the education of dictator/statist/"true believers" in the past?

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try/hope for a different outcome.

If they aren't receptive then that's on them.

I'll debate with anybody, even if our beliefs aren't the same.

That's one of the things still great about this country is we don't all have to believe the same thing, but we should do it respectfully.

- - - Updated - - -

The love of guns and boobs, if that can't bring us all together, I don't what will

I'm in on this

 

[Laura]

The love of guns and boobs, if that can't bring us all together, I don't what will

The gun part works for me but not so much the statement as a whole....

I don't have issues with people that are gay carrying and I think it's great they're waking up to the need to defend themselves rather than wait for a cop. However the majority of the left - and yeah, I really do think it's majority of the left, that wants to kill anyone they see as a threat. They won't say it out loud in polite company but....oh wait, weren't there a few saying that they didn't have a ounce of sympathy for the Vegas victims because we all know only Republicans go to country concerts....

I'm keeping my guns close and my eyes open....

 

[42!]

For the landlord yes we moved into the unit across the street, 2/4 units were rented to women, 1 was 2 women. All my age.

The job thing was the wife hired me, husband fired me. She did see me in person, when he did my first 2 minutes he fired me. Literally wouldn't even shake my hand when I introduced myself. Hung the help wanted sign on the window as he was shutting the door behind me...

I'm of the same mindset. I said "f*** it" and found another apartment, another job. I certainly didn't refer anyone or frequent those businesses myself but I didn't retaliate in any way either. I get that not everyone is going to be comfortable around me and I deal with it. Doesn't mean that I forget about it either though.

I updated my post because it needed to be specific to who was on the lease, not necessarily who lived there. Definitely a consideration when talking about college kids.

He did you a favor firing you, I've worked for a husband/wife co-owners that didn't agree. It makes the whole environment toxic. I was surprised the business lasted the 5 years it did, but employee turnover was incredible. Regrettable you got caught in the middle of their BS. Still, maybe he just didn't like the way you looked, nothing to do with being gay? Show up with facial tattoos and excessive piercings and you won't work for me. And I don't give a shit what your sexual preference is. (an example, not saying it applies to you), At one point I ran a service department where my largest customer wouldn't let a tech on the property without a tie. He had a choice, change the way he dressed or work someplace else.

 

[lgalarn]

I updated my post because it needed to be specific to who was on the lease, not necessarily who lived there. Definitely a consideration when talking about college kids.

He did you a favor firing you, I've worked for a husband/wife co-owners that didn't agree. It makes the whole environment toxic. I was surprised the business lasted the 5 years it did, but employee turnover was incredible. Regrettable you got caught in the middle of their BS. Still, maybe he just didn't like the way you looked, nothing to do with being gay? Show up with facial tattoos and excessive piercings and you won't work for me. And I don't give a shit what your sexual preference is. (an example, not saying it applies to you), At one point I ran a service department where my largest customer wouldn't let a tech on the property without a tie. He had a choice, change the way he dressed or work someplace else.

Yes they were both on the lease. I know because my roommate and I were like "wtf" when we talked to them. That whole place was like a 24hr party and we were all extremely close.

And I said this in an earlier post relating to the landlord but it applies here as well... It's entirely possible that he fired me for something else. But when you're well dressed, clean cut, polite, well spoken, beautiful resume, nicer vehicle, polite, charming, funny, respectful, etc it's hard to see another explanation. He didn't even get to the polite, charming, well spoken, funny, and respectful part because he wouldn't even shake my hand. Also, I have no visible tattoos and I was extremely qualified for the job.

 

[mibro]

The job thing was the wife hired me, husband fired me. She did see me in person, when he did my first 2 minutes he fired me. Literally wouldn't even shake my hand when I introduced myself. Hung the help wanted sign on the window as he was shutting the door behind me....

You're talking about a small business then, not a corporation.

I would absolutely not take that personally. Would you want to be in close daily workplace contact with someone who didn't want you around for whatever reason?

One of the advantages of owning a small business is you can avoid all the compliance and AA cr@p that corporations have to deal with unless you run into someone who's really out to get you, the gay cake folks for example. And no offense but once hired you would have been a high risk employee to that small businessman as you're a member of a protected class.

 

[endus]

Nope....did I get a 10 ton chip on my shoulder? Nope

Oh, no, of course not...

LOL

 

[lgalarn]

Forgive the personal question but what is it about your appearance/behavior that you think makes some people uncomfortable?

Sounds like the job was one that was publlc facing/interacting face to face with customers.

You got a faceful of hardware or choose to dress in a manner that is not conducive to the families business?

I have short hair and wear boyish clothing. That day I was dressed in a shirt and tie, slacks, and dress shoes. The position was for IT where no one would've ever seen me except the people working there. I was wearing nearly the same thing for the interview where I was hired on the spot by the wife. The husband would've had no grounds to fire me due to my behavior. That is unless introducing myself and extending my hand for a handshake would be considered offensive.

No piercings that were not removed and no visible tattoos.

 

[namedpipes]

I have short hair and wear boyish clothing. That day I was dressed in a shirt and tie, slacks, and dress shoes. The position was for IT where no one would've ever seen me except the people working there. I was wearing nearly the same thing for the interview where I was hired on the spot by the wife. The husband would've had no grounds to fire me due to my behavior. That is unless introducing myself and extending my hand for a handshake would be considered offensive.

No piercings that were not removed and no visible tattoos.

I'm a hiring manager and would have no issue with you as described.

I'm interested that you can DO THE JOB.

One caveat, doing the job means doing the job. "No piercings that were not removed and no visible tattoos" suggests that you were there to do the job, not to "make a statement". That is good.

I would NOT hire someone that insisted on rubbing the other workers faces in their lifestyle any more that I'd hire someone that insisted on handing out Bible literature in the break room. Although to a large degree you find out those things after the fact. That's where "at will employment" comes into play.

 

[mibro]

I have short hair and wear boyish clothing. That day I was dressed in a shirt and tie, slacks, and dress shoes. The position was for IT where no one would've ever seen me except the people working there. I was wearing nearly the same thing for the interview where I was hired on the spot by the wife. The husband would've had no grounds to fire me due to my behavior. That is unless introducing myself and extending my hand for a handshake would be considered offensive.

No piercings that were not removed and no visible tattoos.

You weren't really fired here because you weren't actually hired. This was mostly a hiring process problem for this husband/wife team. If either has veto power on a new hire than neither should be unilaterally extending job offers.

I did not get the job I most wanted in my entire career - a well-logging engineer for Schlumberger - because the first-round interviewer was a Geordie and made assumptions about me based on my dress and my accent.

This sh!t happens and you should not get wrapped around the axle about it. Some people will not want to hire you because you're a lesbian. You can either get the gubmint to hit them with the big club or you can accept that you're better off not working for those people.

 

[Next Level]

Guess I know what my new build will be - it says "Safe Space" right on it!

I have a few left if you need to build one
Next Level Firearms