Trigger Warning Queer & Trans Gun Club takes up arms

[lgalarn]

You weren't really fired here because you weren't actually hired. This was mostly a hiring process problem for this husband/wife team. If either has veto power on a new hire than neither should be unilaterally extending job offers.

I did not get the job I most wanted in my entire career - a well-logging engineer for Schlumberger - because the first-round interviewer was a Geordie and made assumptions about me based on my dress and my accent.

This sh!t happens and you should not get wrapped around the axle about it. Some people will not want to hire you because you're a lesbian. You can either get the gubmint to hit them with the big club or you can accept that you're better off not working for those people.

I was fully engaged in a contract with the employer. They were a logistical/shipping company that needed an IT person to upgrade their computer systems, network, software, communications, etc. They were originally looking to hire a contractor for tax purposes but since I did not have a tax ID the wife (after speaking with her husband) decided to put me on the payroll anyways because of my qualifications. The contract was signed by both parties outlining budgets for equipment, timeline of employment (6 months with an option to stay on an additional 2 months to do additional upgrades to their home office based on performance), and upgrades that I was responsible for.

Showed up first day on time (10 minutes early) well dressed, well rested, and ready to start and boom.

I'm a smart kid. I have a VERY strong work ethic.

Trust me, I realize I dodged a bullet there. Had he allowed me to work there it could've gone 1 of 2 ways... He could've been a huge jacka** that made a hostile work environment. Or he could've given me a shot, had an open mind, and really got to like me.

I'm extremely respectful and I try to see things from other people point of view because I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT I'M THE MINORITY. And not everyone is going to agree with me or my lifestyle. Guess what, they don't have to! What I do expect, however, is honor your word, treat me like a human being - you may not like my lifestyle, but you don't have to live it. All anyone want's is the same SHOT as everyone else. It's funny that we have to fight for the same rights that are just given to everyone else.

Before we got sucked down this rabbit hole of someone trying to convince me what I've experienced in my life is not bigotry/homophobia I was just trying to get a point across about these LGBT people and why they may feel the need to arm themselves or fight for their rights. I tried giving the more subtle examples and relating it to gun ownership. That was my mistake. Apparently I should've gone straight for the car keying, spitting, assault stories.

I guess I have a question for you guys - do you think the Federal Labor Laws should exist?

That workers have the right to a safe work environment?

That they have a right to make a minimum wage? (Not $15/hr for flipping burgers, but a livable wage)

That women should make the same as men for the same performance in the same position?

That women have the right to not be sexually harassed in the workplace?

That workers have a right to not be discriminated against due to race, gender, age, military status, gender identity, sexual orientation?

 

[namedpipes]

...
I guess I have a question for you guys - do you think the Federal Labor Laws should exist?

That workers have the right to a safe work environment? Yes, although there ARE jobs that are simply inherently dangerous. Logging, for instance...

That they have a right to make a minimum wage? (Not $15/hr for flipping burgers, but a livable wage) No. See that PACNW city that raised the minimum to a living wage and now everybody is out of work. Was it Seattle? Portland?

That women should make the same as men for the same performance in the same position? No. THAT should be based strictly on experience and contribution

That women have the right to not be sexually harassed in the workplace? No. Why single out women?

That workers have a right to not be discriminated against due to race, gender, age, military status, gender identity, sexual orientation? No. Again, why single them out and why shouldn't a private employer have the right to apply their own criteria? **

** *I* don't give a crap about any of those things (except military status - i.e. I would not hire a dishonorably discharged person). But why should I have the right to bar someone else from doing so?

 

[mibro]

I guess I have a question for you guys - do you think the Federal Labor Laws should exist?

When someone answers you here you're only getting that one person's opinion.

That workers have the right to a safe work environment?

That they have a right to make a minimum wage? (Not $15/hr for flipping burgers, but a livable wage)

That women should make the same as men for the same performance in the same position?

That women have the right to not be sexually harassed in the workplace?

That workers have a right to not be discriminated against due to race, gender, age, military status, gender identity, sexual orientation?

I am just a donkey who has worked his whole life mostly to pay other people's living expenses and to pay taxes that support other people's kids.

I tend to look upon anyone who petitions the Federal Government for any kind of protection or special treatment with suspicion. Other people's "rights" always seem to require my financial participation. Obamacare comes to mind.

Of the five issues you describe the only one I wholeheartedly support is the first - regulation of workplace safety. I am lukewarm at best about the rest.

 

[allen-1]

I was fully engaged in a contract with the employer. They were a logistical/shipping company that needed an IT person to upgrade their computer systems, network, software, communications, etc. They were originally looking to hire a contractor for tax purposes but since I did not have a tax ID the wife (after speaking with her husband) decided to put me on the payroll anyways because of my qualifications. The contract was signed by both parties outlining budgets for equipment, timeline of employment (6 months with an option to stay on an additional 2 months to do additional upgrades to their home office based on performance), and upgrades that I was responsible for.

Showed up first day on time (10 minutes early) well dressed, well rested, and ready to start and boom.

I'm a smart kid. I have a VERY strong work ethic.

Trust me, I realize I dodged a bullet there. Had he allowed me to work there it could've gone 1 of 2 ways... He could've been a huge jacka** that made a hostile work environment. Or he could've given me a shot, had an open mind, and really got to like me.

I'm extremely respectful and I try to see things from other people point of view because I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT I'M THE MINORITY. And not everyone is going to agree with me or my lifestyle. Guess what, they don't have to! What I do expect, however, is honor your word, treat me like a human being - you may not like my lifestyle, but you don't have to live it. All anyone want's is the same SHOT as everyone else. It's funny that we have to fight for the same rights that are just given to everyone else.

Before we got sucked down this rabbit hole of someone trying to convince me what I've experienced in my life is not bigotry/homophobia I was just trying to get a point across about these LGBT people and why they may feel the need to arm themselves or fight for their rights. I tried giving the more subtle examples and relating it to gun ownership. That was my mistake. Apparently I should've gone straight for the car keying, spitting, assault stories.

I guess I have a question for you guys - do you think the Federal Labor Laws should exist?

That workers have the right to a safe work environment?

That they have a right to make a minimum wage? (Not $15/hr for flipping burgers, but a livable wage)

That women should make the same as men for the same performance in the same position?

That women have the right to not be sexually harassed in the workplace?

That workers have a right to not be discriminated against due to race, gender, age, military status, gender identity, sexual orientation?

Equal pay for equal work.
The most qualified person applying for the job gets the job.
You sign up for the job, you do the job. You don't like the job? Find another or work with your boss to change the definition.
If you cause problems in the workplace, you don't work there any more, (hire at will).
If your fellow workers are harassing you, they're causing problems in the workplace - see preceding statement.

Sounds like this potential employer's wife is fair-minded and he's close-minded. On the other hand, I haven't heard his side, and he and his wife should have been on the same page - they obviously weren't. Perhaps he knows that he's got an existing employee who's a raging homophobe that he can't fire for some reason and he knew that there'd be an issue that he couldn't handle in the workplace. I don't know - and neither do you. There's Occam's Razor and there's also "I don't understand this, maybe there are facts I don't have".

I guess that pretty much sums up my thoughts.

Oh yeah - guns are good.
Human sexuality is good too.
My wife and I went to the range yesterday after work; her new P320 is working out well for her and my fix to her AR is good.

 

[endus]

That workers have the right to a safe work environment?

I'm in favor of that generally. The government loves to **** up everything it touches, though...

That they have a right to make a minimum wage? (Not $15/hr for flipping burgers, but a livable wage)

I'm OK with "a" minimum wage, but this issue has gotten completely out of hand. We need to determine a low minimum wage for the lowest skill jobs we have, and then index that to inflation. $15 is assinine...the Democrats use increasing the minimum wage as a political tool in ways which wind up doing way more harm than good to business owners and the workers themselves.

"Livable" is where we start getting in to trouble. What does that mean? Should someone be able to support a spouse and three kids flipping burgers? I don't think so. Not only is it unfair to put the burden of someone else's life choices on an employer, but it will ultimately hurt workers overall.

Should a single person flipping burgers in Cambridge have the government step in to mandate a wage that lets them live in Cambridge? I don't think so.

Society could do a much better job of providing equal opportunities for people. Voucher systems need to be more widespread where they work, public schools need to be improved where vouchers aren't effective. We need to get to that point and from there the minimum wage issue becomes much less important.

That women should make the same as men for the same performance in the same position?

The problem with this is that it's impossible to regulate. Do I deserve to make the same as another man doing the same job? Experience, skill, previous work history, salary negotiation, current circumstances in terms of one's ability to reject an offer...all of this plays in to that. How can you control for all that in a regulation?

In theory, sure. If there's a female clone of me living a freakishly parallel life to me is out there, she 100% deserves to make the same...but that's not a realistic scenario that can then lead to an effective and fair regulation.

Places I have worked sometimes issue market adjustments to peoples salaries, so I think there is a level of trying to push equality/parity with the industry at some places.

One of the things I have talked about with left leaning people is that maybe the compromise position is that the government can provide a level of transparency around certain issues without actively regulating them.

That women have the right to not be sexually harassed in the workplace?

That workers have a right to not be discriminated against due to race, gender, age, military status, gender identity, sexual orientation?

Agree on all of this though military status is more akin to job history.

Our methods of policing this lack both efficacy and fairness. I understand the historical need for affirmative action, for example, but the ultimate goal needs to be to eventually get rid of those laws. They are a means to an end - a post racial society - but are not inherently good policy.

 

[42!]

I was fully engaged in a contract with the employer. They were a logistical/shipping company that needed an IT person to upgrade their computer systems, network, software, communications, etc. They were originally looking to hire a contractor for tax purposes but since I did not have a tax ID the wife (after speaking with her husband) decided to put me on the payroll anyways because of my qualifications. The contract was signed by both parties outlining budgets for equipment, timeline of employment (6 months with an option to stay on an additional 2 months to do additional upgrades to their home office based on performance), and upgrades that I was responsible for.

I'm still thinking there is more to this than you being a lesbian. The whole situation of being on the payroll but having a "contract" for a specific project sounds fishy to me (sort of the worst of both worlds contractor/employee), and getting a tax ID is trivial. Do you mind if I ask how long ago this was and how much IT experience you had, and would you say you looked younger (can be seen as inexperienced)?

Showed up first day on time (10 minutes early) well dressed, well rested, and ready to start and boom.

I'm a smart kid. I have a VERY strong work ethic.

Trust me, I realize I dodged a bullet there. Had he allowed me to work there it could've gone 1 of 2 ways... He could've been a huge jacka** that made a hostile work environment. Or he could've given me a shot, had an open mind, and really got to like me.

I'm extremely respectful and I try to see things from other people point of view because I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT I'M THE MINORITY. And not everyone is going to agree with me or my lifestyle. Guess what, they don't have to! What I do expect, however, is honor your word, treat me like a human being - you may not like my lifestyle, but you don't have to live it. All anyone want's is the same SHOT as everyone else. It's funny that we have to fight for the same rights that are just given to everyone else.

Before we got sucked down this rabbit hole of someone trying to convince me what I've experienced in my life is not bigotry/homophobia I was just trying to get a point across about these LGBT people and why they may feel the need to arm themselves or fight for their rights. I tried giving the more subtle examples and relating it to gun ownership. That was my mistake. Apparently I should've gone straight for the car keying, spitting, assault stories.

I guess I have a question for you guys - do you think the Federal Labor Laws should exist?

That workers have the right to a safe work environment?
Careful using that term "right", to me that is for constitutional rights and the answer would be no. But I do believe an employer should be required to disclose and known risks. After that it's up to the employee to decide if they want to work there.

That they have a right to make a minimum wage? (Not $15/hr for flipping burgers, but a livable wage)
Jobs that pay minimum wage are not intended to support a family or even an adult individual. They are stepping stones, part-time jobs, something you do on your way to, or in conjunction with, something more. No, I don't support a "living wage" as a minimum wage.

That women should make the same as men for the same performance in the same position?
Absolutely. But understand that life choices come into play for individuals. Someone who takes time off to have kids, or care for them (could be men or women), is not performing at the same level as someone who lives for their work. So their compensation will differ. And where there is a difference the people affected should address it with the employer or move on. Businesses are there to make money, if you have the capability they will want to keep you. But the gov should not be used to force arbitrary equalization of pay.

That women have the right to not be sexually harassed in the workplace?
​Yes, same for men. But not every guy who says a women looks nice is sexualy harrasing them.

That workers have a right to not be discriminated against due to race, gender, age, military status, gender identity, sexual orientation?
No one should be discriminated against. But to be perfectly honest I've seen more claims of discrimination in the last few years than the entirety of my life. Some of it may be because people are more willing to speak up, but I've also seen some that are just BS. Hell I've recently been called a Nazi, which is basically impossible and the person who called me that knew why. I certainly haven't seen any discrimination where I've worked either as a mechanic when I was still a kid, or in my IT career, But maybe they are just more accepting fields. This doesn't mean there have always been equal numbers of men and women. When I started at on company there were 5 guys and 25 women and the ration pretty much stayed the same as the company grew to about 250. Was this discrimination? No, it's just that there are more women in Health and Human Services than men.

see red

 

[lgalarn]

see red

see red

The company was a sh*t show to begin with. They were in the financial district downtown with a "help wanted" sign looking for someone to be a receptionist AND IT. Which is asinine to begin with, I know.

Then the were apparently looking for a company to deal with their IT stuff and no receptionist because they weren't in a place that had any walk in business and didn't need someone JUST answering phones.

I was referred to them from a previous IT job I did for about a year again, helping to upgrade systems. Which is the only reason they interviewed me. The wife was blown away when she interviewed me. Loved me (which is why she told me her whole life story) and my resume and said she needed to call her husband to see if they could work something out to get me on the payroll instead of hiring me as a contractor (my choice because I didn't want to go through the hassle of setting up a tax ID and going through the "contractor" thing come time to do my own taxes). He agreed. They both fully understood that I was there solely in an IT capacity. I said that I need to get the job description, what you'd like me to accomplish, a budget, timeline, etc drawn up in a contract so that everyone knows what we're getting into. I spent about 4 hours with her walking through the office, researching some hardware (they already had their eye on the management software they wanted to use) and determining a budget. So they basically got a free consultation. Then she called all of my references and had a contract emailed to me the next day with both of their signatures on it. I signed it and emailed it back with a copy of my license for a background check. So they also understood that I was only 22.

 

[42!]

The company was a sh*t show to begin with. They were in the financial district downtown with a "help wanted" sign looking for someone to be a receptionist AND IT. Which is asinine to begin with, I know.

Then the were apparently looking for a company to deal with their IT stuff and no receptionist because they weren't in a place that had any walk in business and didn't need someone JUST answering phones.

I was referred to them from a previous IT job I did for about a year again, helping to upgrade systems. Which is the only reason they interviewed me. The wife was blown away when she interviewed me. Loved me (which is why she told me her whole life story) and my resume and said she needed to call her husband to see if they could work something out to get me on the payroll instead of hiring me as a contractor (my choice because I didn't want to go through the hassle of setting up a tax ID and going through the "contractor" thing come time to do my own taxes). He agreed. They both fully understood that I was there solely in an IT capacity. I said that I need to get the job description, what you'd like me to accomplish, a budget, timeline, etc drawn up in a contract so that everyone knows what we're getting into. I spent about 4 hours with her walking through the office, researching some hardware (they already had their eye on the management software they wanted to use) and determining a budget. So they basically got a free consultation. Then she called all of my references and had a contract emailed to me the next day with both of their signatures on it. I signed it and emailed it back with a copy of my license for a background check. So they also understood that I was only 22.

That's messed up.
I would not assume that the issue was you being a lesbian. The business is messed up, they don't know what they want, the contract/w2 mess, a perception that you lack experience. To be honest I think it's a lot more likely the husband wasn't on-board with what the wife wanted to do, probably thought it cost too much (what kind of skinflint combines Reception with IT). He saw a younger person and took an easy way out with his wife.

A little advice. No free consulting. Charge them an hour or two (more for bigger jobs) and tell them it will be credited on the final project. Way too many tire kickers and people who think they can take you recommendations and do it cheaper/better themselves. And if you're going to do contracted projects, learn how to work the tax deductions of being self employed. There is just sooo much that can be a business expense when you're self employed that just cost you money when you're an employee.

One more note. If you have a written agreement you could go after them for a basic breach of contract, might just be small claims court (depends on the amount). You may win but you need to balance that with what it could do to you reputation. And don't make it about anything, it's a breach of contract, it doesn't need to be anything more and courts like simple.

 

[lgalarn]

That's messed up.
I would not assume that the issue was you being a lesbian. The business is messed up, they don't know what they want, the contract/w2 mess, a perception that you lack experience. To be honest I think it's a lot more likely the husband wasn't on-board with what the wife wanted to do, probably thought it cost too much (what kind of skinflint combines Reception with IT). He saw a younger person and took an easy way out with his wife.

A little advice. No free consulting. Charge them an hour or two (more for bigger jobs) and tell them it will be credited on the final project. Way too many tire kickers and people who think they can take you recommendations and do it cheaper/better themselves. And if you're going to do contracted projects, learn how to work the tax deductions of being self employed. There is just sooo much that can be a business expense when you're self employed that just cost you money when you're an employee.

One more note. If you have a written agreement you could go after them for a basic breach of contract, might just be small claims court (depends on the amount). You may win but you need to balance that with what it could do to you reputation. And don't make it about anything, it's a breach of contract, it doesn't need to be anything more and courts like simple.

Yeah, I would say the fact that he wouldn't even shake my hand pretty much sealed the deal for me on the fact that it was homophobia. I could've gone after them for breach of contract but I had multiple offers at the time so I was just like "f**k you."

I got more into Operations Management, and work for an awesome company that basically lets me do whatever I want with my team because it works. I've been involved in writing their operations manual, consistency of systems of new acquisitions, etc. They send me to some pretty cool places to fix some pretty terrible messes too. It's a good gig. Everything that I've done in my career was likely to get me here and then on to the next thing if/when it comes along. I'm not one to job hop, but my experience makes me really good at finding flaws and fixing things, streamlining processes, etc. So my usefulness seems to stall out after a few years but since this company is continuing to grow at a fast pace there's always something to change or fix. Seems I've found my niche.

 

[mibro]

The wife was blown away when she interviewed me. Loved me (which is why she told me her whole life story) and my resume and said she needed to call her husband to see if they could work something out to get me on the payroll instead of hiring me as a contractor (my choice because I didn't want to go through the hassle of setting up a tax ID and going through the "contractor" thing come time to do my own taxes).

Not relevant to the discussion but you don't need anything other than your social security number to work as a contractor. You only need a "tax ID" - a Federal EIN - if you're going to employ someone in your IT business or in your home.

 

[dcmdon]

I have no problem with them arming themselves against the "extreme right", as long as their intent is to use firearms as defensive weapons.

And no, Hate Speech is not violence.

I have volunteered as an instructor with the Boston Pink Pistols. There are members who are legitimately concerned. We haven't really talked politics, but if I ever thought that any of them perceived hate speech as violence and used that as justification for aggression, I'd stop volunteering immediately.

Actually, this news story has flushed out the fact that at the next event we should have just such a discussion.

Non-violence is for suckers. Non-aggression is how life should be lived. There is a HUUUUGGGGEEEE difference, since sometimes, doing what is ethically sound requires violence.

Don

 

[lgalarn]

It was at the advice of my accountant that I get an EIN if I were to be a contractor due to other accounts that I had.

 

[namedpipes]

It was at the advice of my accountant that I get an EIN if I were to be a contractor due to other accounts that I had.

You should be able to do that online more or less instantly. Add a DBA ($50+/- with your local town clerk) and you can even take checks written to "LGALARN Amalgamated". (or whatever your dba is)

 

[Whutmeworry]

It was at the advice of my accountant that I get an EIN if I were to be a contractor due to other accounts that I had.

Congrats on going green lgalarn. You won’t regret it!