Trigger Warning Queer & Trans Gun Club takes up arms

[42!]

The better fight would be to remove government from the marriage equation all together. Wouldn't it be better not to have to get the gov permission to marry.

Equal rights will only happen when there is no government involvement

Separate "religious marriage" from "civil union", practically just a change in names.

Now anyone can "marry" under whatever religious beliefs, or lack of beliefs, they have. It's an emotional expression of love and dedication.

Civil Union is a government sanctioned contract between 2 consenting adults and legally binds them together for the purpose of government benefits and allowances, for business contracts (insurance), and responsibilities (children).

Everybody wins.

 

[lgalarn]

You've put a number of different situations under #1 so this will be a little confusing, but here goes..



Perfectly OK. Private business. In fact there are a number of businesses that have self labeled as gun free zones. And while this signage is not binding in MA, if you are asked to leave for any reason, or no reason, you must leave or be subject to criminal trespassing charges.



Now we are getting into what happens behind closed doors. Assuming this is actually stated in the lease agreement I would have a choice of complying, ignoring it (lieing to him), or going elsewhere. But first a question, why would I love an apartment with a landlord like this? But to your point, his property his rules, I move on and find an apartment I do love.



You're right, this is ridiculous and can happen regardless of preference or gun ownership and you deal with it.



You're mixing a few things here but I'll try to answer. First, MA is an at will state. You can be fired at any time without reason. The first question is, can an employer fire you for your appearance, clothing that clearly promotes something that the owner feels is detrimental to the image of the company? I would hope they would give you the opportunity to remove the jacket/patch (this could be an NRA or LGBT patch), but ultimately yes they can. And I have worked at a company where I can guarantee you had I in any way indicated gun ownership, or even just support of 2a, I would have been given the choice of removing it or being fired.

As for the different owner scenario. Unless you deliberately mislead the original owner as to how you would be dessing (representing the business), and this is not specific to being gay, sounds like they have an internal problem, and it should be addressed with the original owner who presumably had no issue. But I wouldn't want to work anywhere where the owners are not in agreement. On the other hand, if you show up with clothing that actively promote something the owner feels does not fit with the business (NRA or LGBT patch), then yes they can let you go. The simple fact is that if a business keeps turning away qualified people for any reason that will not negatively impact their business, then it will hurt their business, and the problem will self correct over time. The business will fail, let it happen. BTW I've run into some age discrimination lately so I have some understanding, but I move on. If they don't want my experience why would I want to be there?



Comes up all the time on NES. Their house their rules. And concealed means concealed.



I think you're pushing it a bit at this point. If you are just passively sitting there and someone comes up to you and creates a disturbance, and the owner didn't have a problem with you to begin with, then I don't see this happening. If you "get into it" with the other person then sure you might be asked to leave. Even more likely if the owner didn't see the start and only came in after you were already "involved". But again, private business, their choice, and why would you want to be there? Oh, and you can trash him on social media




Internal issue. Dealt with by the owner. And you're stretching it again. No business owner is going to employ anyone who is going to turn away business that the owner finds acceptable. It is not freedom of speech to undermine the profitability of the business you work for when you are being paid to represent them. People get fired all the time for saying/doing something their employer feels is detrimental to the business's image.




But reactions need to be kept in proportion and you can't violate another person's rights regardless of what the outcome will be. The end does NOT justify the means. And true societal change comes over time, you can not force it. You fight the good fight and keep at it.



If the owner/manager is not there then the assistant Manager speaks for the business. At will employee, anyone can be fired with or without reason. Why would being gay even come up? Employment contracts only exist at the executive level, and unions, and the contract will spell out how and why they can be terminated. The last question doesn't apply because it assumes a contract which, if one exists, will outline the how and why termination may occur.



This isn't war, no one is shooting at you. And this sounds suspiciously like an "the ends justify the means" argument, which it does not.

What I am trying to do is give you an example of the typical day of an LGBTQ person in the worst case scenario (the South) and put it in terms that you can relate to ie - gun ownership.

And yes, I have been refused service, refused apartments because the landlord "didn't want 2 girls on a lease" in a college town mind you, hired and fired from a job, thrown out of a restaurant for making a scene without saying a peep or making one gesture when the other party initiated it and got to stay.

If you have been subject to these scenarios on a regular basis it tends to wear you down.

Employment contracts certainly do not only exist at the executive level. I have NEVER accepted a job that didn't come with AT MINIMUM an offer letter stating pay and basic employment terms. Usually I do sign a contract, signing bonus, etc, and I'm in a regional position neither corporate nor executive.

When you go to a job interview as a women dressed in a shirt and tie and are hired by one owner then show up for your first day in a shirt and tie but the second owner fires you THAT is discrimination.

The point of the whole thing is yes these are private businesses/private owners discriminating based on sexual orientation or "gun ownership." I agree that business owners should be given free reign to conduct business as they please. HOWEVER, where does it stop? Are private vendors that are contracted by the government allowed to discriminate? Is the city clerk signing marriage licenses allowed to say I'm not going to sign yours because you're gay? Are insurance companies allowed to say I won't cover your spouse because it's same sex marriage? What if the MBTA or other public transportation starts getting privatized, are they allowed to say they won't provide service for LGBTQ?

The point is, it's not a bakery, or an apartment, it's what comes after that.

 

[CRSIII]

This is from Gallup, 10 million American adults identify as LGBT (4.1%)
That's a lot of $$ business owners probably don't want to miss out on.
In the end, I think money will talk, sexual preferences will walk.

Oh, and if i knew you were coming, I'd have baked a cake.

 

[lgalarn]

I dont mean to insult but is it possible that the attributions/reasons/assignments you've made in the above post are not in fact accurate and maybe you or the other party just tickled the landlord or other parties "Gut Feeling" that you or the other were a potential problem......ie juice not worth the squeeze?

I've encountered more than a few GLTSB)*&)*&*** people who view the world through the lense of their GLTSB)*&)*&***-ness and are butt hurt/angry and blame everything on that association rather than the fact that they are just untrustworthy/angry/whatever

Anything is possible. HIGHLY unlikely, but possible.

I wonder if the people that discriminate against black people aren't racist either? Probably just a gut feeling they won't pay their rent timely.

Kinda asinine don't you think?

And trust me, I have a HUGE chip on my shoulder being a lesbian I won't deny that for one second. But that's because I've experienced horrific discrimination and violence because I dress like a boy, and am a woman who likes women.

Thankfully I like to see each situation and each person for what it is/who they are. If you show me the same respect you'd show any other human being, I will afford you that respect right back. If you don't, I move on.

What I've realized is that nobody is going to stick up for me because they don't have skin in the game. The only person who can guarantee my safety is me. And I think that's what the people in the video have realized too. Not saying I'm arming myself against every right wing conservative. But I'm arming myself because it's a real possibility that my lifestyle may rub someone the wrong way enough that they mean to do me harm. Is it more likely that that person is going to have conservative views - yes. Is it more likely that people with conservative views have guns - yes. Does that mean I'm scared to walk into a gun club - heck no.

 

[42!]

Anything is possible. HIGHLY unlikely, but possible.

I wonder if the people that discriminate against black people aren't racist either? Probably just a gut feeling they won't pay their rent timely.

Kinda asinine don't you think?

And trust me, I have a HUGE chip on my shoulder being a lesbian I won't deny that for one second. But that's because I've experienced horrific discrimination and violence because I dress like a boy, and am a woman who likes women.

Thankfully I like to see each situation and each person for what it is/who they are. If you show me the same respect you'd show any other human being, I will afford you that respect right back. If you don't, I move on.

What I've realized is that nobody is going to stick up for me because they don't have skin in the game. The only person who can guarantee my safety is me. And I think that's what the people in the video have realized too. Not saying I'm arming myself against every right wing conservative. But I'm arming myself because it's a real possibility that my lifestyle may rub someone the wrong way enough that they mean to do me harm. Is it more likely that that person is going to have conservative views - yes. Is it more likely that people with conservative views have guns - yes. Does that mean I'm scared to walk into a gun club - heck no.

Since you admit to having a huge chip on your shoulder, it's only reasonable that some of what you are seeing is because of that. It won't help your cause and it will only cause you more aggravation. Lots of people have encountered unfair treatment for a lot of reasons, they are no more or less valid than yours. Life is not fair.

 

[CRSIII]

Lose the chip. I suppose it's easier said, than done, but it's only hurting you.

 

[lgalarn]

Not assinine at all......just another example of folks that have HUUUUUGE chips on their shoulders and try to blame their problems in life on something other than that chip.

Does racism/desctimination happen?

Yep.....but its almost always the exception rather than the norm......

Years ago I was laid off from a job because I was the only member of the team that was not a member of a "Protected Class" unrelated to skills/performance/tenure etc.....confirmed privately with HR person who was a friend......do I complain about it? Nope....did I get a 10 ton chip on my shoulder? Nope.....was I butt hurt about it? Nope.....I went out and found a new/better job in under 2 weeks.....

I cant tell you how many times I've had similar conversations with co workers/collegues who have walked out of meetings angry/making claims that they were being ignored/descriminated against because they were GLTZQ**** that I've had to talk off the ledge and point out that it had nothing to do with GLTZQ**** and everything to do with the chip on their shoulder that they led every discussion/subject with

Its Kharma.....you lead with shit and you shouldnt expect to get anything but shit in return

As I said before all I am trying to do is present a different perspective than many of you might be used to. Many people seemed to have appreciate it. Fine if you don't.

I also said before that though I do have a chip on my shoulder I approach all new situations and people with an open mind. However, I certainly do not forget about the times that I have been discriminated against.

Someone said in a much earlier post something about far right conservatives from MA being Texas democrats, etc... I think that maybe living in a place that is so open and accepting has desensitized you to the fact that in other places or parts of the country racism and homophobia are not in fact the exception but the norm.

 

[Supermoto]

Someone said in a much earlier post something about far right conservatives from MA being Texas democrats, etc... I think that maybe living in a place that is so open and accepting has desensitized you to the fact that in other places or parts of the country racism and homophobia are not in fact the exception but the norm.

MA and especially liberals are not "so open and accepting" if you don't agree with them

 

[CRSIII]

MA and especially liberals are not "so open and accepting" if you don't agree with them

 

[lgalarn]

MA and especially liberals are not "so open and accepting" if you don't agree with them

SO TRUE

It's easy for people to get and excited and angry when you're trying to change minds and hearts and people aren't receptive especially when it's something they're passionate about.

What people have to remember is that not everybody is going to be accepting of everything you are and THAT'S OKAY.

I don't have to agree with you about everything, you don't have to agree with me.

What's better is when people can have a civilized conversation about their differences without hating each other afterwards.

I experience anger from the far left as well because I don't agree with them and "as a lesbian how can I not?"

 

[CRSIII]

SO TRUE

I experience anger from the far left as well because I don't agree with them and "as a lesbian how can I not?"

And they believe this to the very bottom of their dark little hearts.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

MA and especially liberals are not "so open and accepting" if you don't agree with them

BINGO

 

[In God We Trust]

Society would need something to replace marriage, even if it was a simple declaration of life partner filed at the town hall.

There are many logistical things that go with the state sanction that extend beyond tax status - for example, default inheritance; next of kin status for medical treatment; etc.

You beat me to it. Without government involvement in marriage, how would these issues be resolved? Governments only legitimate job is national defense and protection of our rights.

The marriage contract is supposed to protect our safety (medical decisions and such for spouses) and also protect our private property interests (inheritance and such) it's not a state overreach by any stretch of the imagination.

We can argue about how Effed up the divorce laws and family courts are, but that's a different conversation.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

First time poster, long time reader. And by long time I mean about 11 or so months.

I don't often see things that I'm both passionate and knowledgeable about posted (until now!) so I have mostly been just that - a reader.

I'd like to preface this with saying "thank you" because when I read the title to the post by heart sank. But most of what I read here is sarcastic and has the message, "no body cares if you're gay or not these days." I can genuinely say I really appreciate that as I am a lesbian woman and a very strong advocate for the 2nd Amendment.

However, I would like to clear some things up that I see a lot of you and a lot of people in general saying. I understand that some people feel that "the gay agenda" is being pushed on "normal" people. They don't want to see 2 mommies on tv because it forces them to have uncomfortable conversations with their kids or whatever their reasoning. Hey I get it, but the fact of the matter is that this day and age your kids are going to be exposed to it regardless. Would you rather explain it to them or would you rather them, because kids will (it's the no filter thing) ask a random stranger. It happened to me and my wife at our nieces birthday party...

Kid to my wife: "that's a pretty ring, is your husband here?"
My wife (without thinking): "no this is my wife" *points to me who looks like a boy*
Kid to me: "Are you a boy or a girl?"
Me: "I'm a girl who likes to wear boys clothes"
Kid: "So girls can marry other girls?"
Me: "If you love each other that's all that matters"
Kid: "I can see why you like to wear boys clothes, capes are cool" as she runs away to continue playing with the other kids.

The interaction was completely harmless but I immediately was super uncomfortable that I had done something wrong. Is this kid going to run and tell their parents? How were they going to react? Will they be allowed to hang out with my nieces going forward or not because they have gay aunts that may be around some times? The anxiety is sometimes overwhelming but this is the stuff that I have to think about because others want to pretend that gay people don't exist or talking about it is too much of a hassle. Kids don't care, trust me, they take their cues from you. So regardless of who tells them they're going to be exposed to it no matter what. It's up to you who gets to have those kinds of conversations with your kids, personally I would rather it be you because I don't have kids, therefore I'm really awkward and don't know how to explain things in kid language lol.

Now thankfully I live in Massachusetts where the parents didn't care. We went over, apologized profusely and they laughed "why are you apologizing?" But I'm from Florida, and in Florida doing something like that can get you screamed at, or beaten up. Which is why we had to move here in the first place. Because until VERY recently gay marriage, or as I like to call it - marriage, wasn't legal in Florida. Even if I got a marriage license in another state, it would not have been recognized in Florida where I was born and raised.

Which brings me to my next point. I'm sorry that you feel that you were "bullied" into allowing us to have the same rights afforded to the rest of you. However, sometimes when a minority is being overlooked you have to be louder, braver, stronger, and more patient. That is exactly what happened, and I get that some of you are going to cry "BUT CHRISTIANITY" and to that, I'm going to tell you to grow up. If you're so into the Bill of Rights and Constitution, you don't get to cherry pick and skip right over the separation of church and state. Just like you don't get to cherry pick the parts of the bible to live by or not. Plus, marriage was around long before the bible, you guys stole it, you don't get to define it, get over it.

Lastly, the new hot button topic, bathrooms! Seriously, all I have to say is live and let live man. I mean I look like a boy but I have girl parts (and I'm 99% sure I'll get someone asking because they almost always do, yes I want to keep them that way) and I like to use the ladies bathroom. Sometimes I get a double take when I walk in or when I'm washing my hands but for the most part nobody cares. And I don't mind the looks, I get I kinda look like a boy and it can be confusing upon first glance. And again, I live in Massachusetts. When I lived in Florida I avoided public restrooms like the plague because depending on the city or town or mood of some dude or woman or whatever that can get you screamed at or beaten up.

I know that these things aren't your problem and most of you will never have to worry about any of this because you are not gay, nor do are you close enough to someone gay to care. All I'm trying to accomplish by this looooooooong unnecessary rant is so that maybe ONE person will read, and stop to think about someone else's perspective for ONE second.

I am pretty middle of the road when it comes to politics. I wish government was smaller but unfortunately if it was, my family would not really be able to exist in some parts of the country.

I'll NEVER give up my guns not only to fight against tyranny if needed, but to protect myself and my family against any threats that come with being gay (yes I have been physically assaulted solely for being gay, called the cops, cops laughed and said I should've stayed in my side of town). That's when I knew I could only depend on myself for protection.

Again, to the majority of posts on this thread, THANK YOU for being open minded. To the other few, I hope you read this and can maybe kinda sorta see where I'm coming from? If not, I don't care THAT much, I still have my guns to keep me safe and warm.

Thanks for sharing. Welcome to NES and buy a Glock

 

[In God We Trust]

This is basic contract law already enforced/prosecuted by gov

So all you want to do is change the name from marriage to something else, but have the laws remain the same? I'm fine with that, but don't really see what the point is or what the difference is.

We marry people partially because we want to have those legal benefits. Just saying "I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you." Requires no government involvement.

 

[lgalarn]

I dont live in Mass.....and if you think mass is "Open" and "Tolerant" then you're not paying attention......progressives are only "Open" or "Tolerant" if you AGREE with them......

I've lived in many different parts of the country including south of the mason dixon line and spent a significant amount of time in the real south......the number of times I've witnessed anything that began to resemble racism can be counted on one hand......the number of instances I've witnessed due to folks with a chip on their shoulder is too numerous to count.

Maybe it would be of benefit to you to reconsider/reflect on your own actions/interactions with folks you attribute to racism/discrimination.....hardest thing for most people (myself included) to do is reflect on the things that we all do that cause others to react in sub optimal ways

If you read my about me, I couldn't agree with you more "I moved from the oppressive south to the oppressive north." So I get it. Oppressed in the south because I'm a lesbian and oppressed in the north for everything except that.

What I don't appreciate so much is the assumption that because I have a chip on my shoulder I think everything is homophobia. No dude, it's the other way around, I have a chip on my shoulder because I've experience first hand so much homophobia. When someone comes up to you in line and says "you know whats going to happen when you meet your maker, right?" Or spits on you because you're holding hands with your wife. Or when the gay club gets shot up, or smoke bombed, or pepper sprayed, that's pretty unmistakable homophobia.

I know this because I lived more than half my life as a straight woman and never experienced the types of things I did until I cut my hair and started dating women.

It's easy to sit on the sidelines when you're a good person and think "this doesn't really happen to people" because unless you are a minority, you don't experience it. It's harder to think "there is a real problem in society that's been present for a long time."

And it goes both ways, reverse racism is huge now too.

 

[CRSIII]

Thanks for sharing. Welcome to NES and buy a Glock

Don't listen to him!
1911 or a Wrist Rocket!

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Don't listen to him!
1911 or a Wrist Rocket!

Or get all 3

 

[CRSIII]

Can't argue with that logic!

 

[Supermoto]

So all you want to do is change the name from marriage to something else, but have the laws remain the same? I'm fine with that, but don't really see what the point is or what the difference is.

We marry people partially because we want to have those legal benefits. Just saying "I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you." Requires no government involvement.

The point is not having to get the governments permission first

 

[lgalarn]

Thanks for sharing. Welcome to NES and buy a Glock

I want one! But they're hard to find. So I bought a p320.

I would also really like to buy an AR15 but....

 

[CRSIII]

I want one! But they're hard to find. So I bought a p320.

I would also really like to buy an AR15 but....

2 words; Green membership .

 

[mibro]

If you read my about me, I couldn't agree with you more "I moved from the oppressive south to the oppressive north." So I get it. Oppressed in the south because I'm a lesbian and oppressed in the north for everything except that.

What I don't appreciate so much is the assumption that because I have a chip on my shoulder I think everything is homophobia. No dude, it's the other way around, I have a chip on my shoulder because I've experience first hand so much homophobia. When someone comes up to you in line and says "you know whats going to happen when you meet your maker, right?" Or spits on you because you're holding hands with your wife. Or when the gay club gets shot up, or smoke bombed, or pepper sprayed, that's pretty unmistakable homophobia.

I know this because I lived more than half my life as a straight woman and never experienced the types of things I did until I cut my hair and started dating women.

It's easy to sit on the sidelines when you're a good person and think "this doesn't really happen to people" because unless you are a minority, you don't experience it. It's harder to think "there is a real problem in society that's been present for a long time."

And it goes both ways, reverse racism is huge now too.

I read and paid close attention to both your comments on this thread.

I'm 100% in support of your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

However, you underestimate the impact of the mainstreaming of gay rights imho.

I have a friend in a moonbat suburb whose six year old daughter came home from kindergarten and said, "mommy, when I grow up I'm going to get married but I'm not going to marry a man, I'm going to marry a woman."

After further conversation it transpired she has an activist kindergarten teacher who has been proselytizing for the gay agenda. That teacher had no business planting this idea in a six year old girl's head.

For better or worse it is heterosexual couples, men primarily, who do all of society's heavy lifting and pay all the net taxes. You're asking a lot of normies to believe we should tolerate the 3% gay tail wagging the 97% straight dog.

 

[CRSIII]

That woman needs to be fired now.
Teachers need to stick to academic teaching only.
No room for any politics in school.

 

[lgalarn]

I read and paid close attention to both your comments on this thread.

I'm 100% in support of your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

However, you truly underestimate the impact of the mainstreaming of gay rights.

I have a friend in a moonbat suburb whose six year old daughter came home from school and said, "mommy, when I grow up I'm going to get married but I'm not going to marry a man, I'm going to marry a woman."

After further conversation it transpired that she has an activist lesbian kindergarten teacher who has been proselytizing for the gay agenda. That teacher had no ****ing business planting this idea in a six year old girl's head.

For better or worse it is heterosexual couples, men primarily, who do all of society's heavy lifting and pay all the net taxes. You're asking a lot of normies to believe we should tolerate the 3% gay tail wagging the 97% straight dog.

I appreciate the sentiment, and if that's truly what the teacher is doing, that's wrong and she should be fired, and not be allowed another job caring for children.

PUSHING being gay on anyone is wrong and ridiculous.

Kids shouldn't have to worry about that until they realize cooties aren't real. If they have a question, that's a different story.

I'm not asking for the mainstreaming of "the gay agenda" whatever that is. My agenda consists of work, pizza, video games on a rainy day, and shooting with my friends.

The only thing I would like to see is that if a kid is questioning or is gay that the parents are receptive and supportive.There are too many homeless lgbt youth in our country for my liking. But there is a culture shift, it is happening slowly.

I don't think we should "wag the dog" but I do think gay rights are needed. Or as I like to call them rights. Equality is all most of us want. In the eyes of the law and the eyes of our fellow man.

And I get it - life isn't fair. But if we can make the same rights attainable like marriage, I don't see what's wrong with that. And whatever, call it a Civil Union, I don't care. But if I have to suffer through life with my wife just like you do, I should get the same benefits as you too.

 

[CRSIII]

I chaired the "keep cooties in school committee.

This is one of the best threads in a long time.

 

[mibro]

I appreciate the sentiment, and if that's truly what the teacher is doing, that's wrong and she should be fired, and not be allowed another job caring for children.

PUSHING being gay on anyone is wrong and ridiculous.

Kids shouldn't have to worry about that until they realize cooties aren't real. If they have a question, that's a different story.

I'm not asking for the mainstreaming of "the gay agenda" whatever that is. My agenda consists of work, pizza, video games on a rainy day, and shooting with my friends.

The only thing I would like to see is that if a kid is questioning or is gay that the parents are receptive and supportive.There are too many homeless lgbt youth in our country for my liking. But there is a culture shift, it is happening slowly.

I don't think we should "wag the dog" but I do think gay rights are needed. Or as I like to call them rights. Equality is all most of us want. In the eyes of the law and the eyes of our fellow man.

And I get it - life isn't fair. But if we can make the same rights attainable like marriage, I don't see what's wrong with that. And whatever, call it a Civil Union, I don't care. But if I have to suffer through life with my wife just like you do, I should get the same benefits as you too.

I've been accused of various -isms in the past and in truth I'm not guilty. Just to qualify myself () I have quite a well-known M to F transgender friend/acquaintance.

All I ask really is reverse tolerance. We should all live and let live. Unfortunately there are extremists in every special interest group whose true desire is to dominate and control and I refuse to let that pass without comment, as futile as it may be.

 

[Portagee]

Hey, I was (sadly) a leftist, until I got into firearms. Now I consider myself a centrist, maybe they will too.

 

[CRSIII]

Careful Mi, you're sounding like a libratarian there.

 

[In God We Trust]

Trigger Warning Queer & Trans Gun Club takes up arms

No.....I want to eliminate gov't involvement in marriage entirely

Contract law already covers any and all of this

But the end result is the same. You are not really asking for governments permission to get married since nobody is ever told no. You are getting a bulletproof contract to protect yourself and your spouse for $25.

If I wanted these same legal protections without marriage, I imagine the lawyer would charge me more than $25 and someone with a better lawyer and a semi legitimate claim to my inheritance could shoot holes in the contract.

Either way you need government involvement to guarantee those protections, but what we have now is much cheaper, easier and in effect the exact same thing that libertarians say they want.