Trigger job. Compliancy ?

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Gregg134

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I have a S&W 9C with cam with a ridiculous 11.5 lb trigger pull. I did a trigger job using the APEX kit. Trigger is now around 6 lbs. I was told today that if I had to use the gun in self defense (God forbid) I may be in trouble.
Thoughts ? Should I go back and undo the trigger job ?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
A prosecuting attorney would no doubt try to spin it that you had the trigger job done so you could become a more efficient mass murderer. Any decent defense attorney could bring experts to diffuse that. They will also accuse you of being irresponsible for carrying one in the pipe, and no doubt, for wearing unsensible shoes. (Zimmerman's prosecuter claimed he had an overloaded pistol). Defend youself and let the chips fall where they may.
 
I have the same concern and that's the main reason I have not done an apex job on my shield yet and trust me it drastically needs it. I have posed the same question here and can't get a definitive answer.

In my opinion and mine only. I would think a prosecutor would treat a trigger job the same way they would if you shot someone with home made reloaded bullets. I feel like he would say "so Mr. Jones. You modified the factory trigger so it would be easier to kill someone! Is that correct Mr. Jones?"

Ma LTC
GOAL Member
 
Understand that the safety compliance is for what gun shops can sell you brand new. After you buy, you wanna modify the trigger from a 11lb to a 6.5lb pull? By all means do it and realize you are not breaking the law.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
 
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Obie1 said:
A prosecuting attorney would no doubt try to spin it that you had the trigger job done so you could become a more efficient mass murderer. Any decent defense attorney could bring experts to diffuse that. They will also accuse you of being irresponsible for carrying one in the pipe, and no doubt, for wearing unsensible shoes. (Zimmerman's prosecuter claimed he had an overloaded pistol). Defend youself and let the chips fall where they may.
Click to expand...

Enough said.
 
A 10#+ trigger can be painful for those suffering from arthritis. Would it be proper to deny such a sufferer, the right to self defense??

I know of no cases where this was a determining factor in the final disposition.
 
I never heard of a case where the state takes the pistol apart to look for modifications. Nor have I heard of a case where the equipment played a role in anything. Its really a use of force issue. That said with the corruption of many state s nothing is off the table. Me personally I have no problem modifying EDC to improve my ability with it. If it ever was the case that the state mentioned the trigger I'd point out the NYPD case at the Sears office building in which the cops with their 11lb triggers shot 9 bystanders.

sent from my NSA approved phone
 
It shouldn't matter if the shoot is legit. If you had a negligent discharge I could see it being a factor in court.
 
the way i figure it, how would they even know you changed the trigger unless you told them? who would be taking apart the gun to inspect every part to make sure is what came on the gun to begin with. how could they tell the difference? what if the gun was used and the previous owner did a trigger job and didn't tell you? what if you bought a custom gun from a professional gunsmith, what is considered factory parts then?

i think the same goes for reloaded ammo, how many prosecutors, or police officers would know the difference between regular factory ammo and reloads uless you told them they were reloads.

i say keep your mouth shut and don't worry about it. in this state the biggest thing to worry about is proving you had just cause to shoot said bad guy.
 
Gregg134 said:
I have a S&W 9C with cam with a ridiculous 11.5 lb trigger pull. I did a trigger job using the APEX kit. Trigger is now around 6 lbs. I was told today that if I had to use the gun in self defense (God forbid) I may be in trouble.
Thoughts ? Should I go back and undo the trigger job ?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Who says this stuff, did they tell you hollow points are illegal too???
 
Gregg134 said:
I have a S&W 9C with cam with a ridiculous 11.5 lb trigger pull. I did a trigger job using the APEX kit. Trigger is now around 6 lbs. I was told today that if I had to use the gun in self defense (God forbid) I may be in trouble.
Thoughts ? Should I go back and undo the trigger job ?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...

If you struck someone over the head with a baseball bat in a lawful self-defense situation, you'll be fine.

This past fall I heard a clerk at an unknown gun store spout something similar WRT non-Marsha approved guns. When I corrected him, he tried to confound the point with having post ban high cap mags, showing he had no clue what he was talking about.

Whatever dumbass told you this garbage is just that.
 
Id rather put two in a bad guy than shank two into a bystander. Retarded pull weights help no one.
 
Gregg134 said:
I have a S&W 9C with cam with a ridiculous 11.5 lb trigger pull. I did a trigger job using the APEX kit. Trigger is now around 6 lbs. I was told today that if I had to use the gun in self defense (God forbid) I may be in trouble.
Thoughts ? Should I go back and undo the trigger job ?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Did hear this at a gunshop in Waltham?
 
wmass said:
Id rather put two in a bad guy than shank two into a bystander. Retarded pull weights help no one.
Click to expand...

This. Heavy pull weights mean you're more likely to pull off target and hit an innocent bystander.
 
How will they even know that you have altered the trigger unless you tell them, someone said. I'm convinced that if you shoot someone, your gun will be examined with a fine comb, and any alterations will be discovered. As an example, see the famous Florida v. Luis Alvarez case from 1984. In that case, the prosecution's main claim was that police officer Luis Alvarez had cocked his revolver. However, when they examined the gun, they discovered the trigger job, done by the department's armorer before it was issued to Alvarez. They noticed that internal parts had been buffed and polished, and that the rebound spring had been clipped, slightly reducing the trigger weight. The prosecution ran with it and claimed that “[h]is gun had been illegally modified into a deadly and dangerous weapon unauthorized by the Miami Police Department. The rebound spring had been clipped, creating a hair trigger.” (Source: http://www.royblack.com/files/Alvarez.pdf; also see the prosecution's expert witness: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=PXkoAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QcgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4138,2738375)

Now, the defense's expert witness was able to show that the trigger pull was still within S&W factory specs. Alvarez avoided prison in the end, and I'm not sure whether the trigger job was a big worry for the defense or not. But the point is that any modification you make to your gun will be discovered and used against you in a criminal and/or civil case. And a trigger job that reduces the trigger pull by several pounds will be discovered very quickly.
 
GunGrey said:
I respect massad Ayoob

But Jesus Christ this idea needs to die a firey death. It's such a bullshit idea to begin with
Click to expand...

When I took LFI-1 and 2, Ayoob spoke about handgun modifications. He recommended that trigger jobs were fine provided that you kept the trigger pull at a reasonable weight - 4+ lbs for a single action trigger.

He did suggest that if you carried a revolver that you consider having the hammer bobbed and the single action notch removed. This was based on a court case that he worked on where the DA alleged that the shooter cocked the gun and accidentally shot the perp. IIRC, the shooter was convicted of manslaughter as a result.
 
Is there any case in Massachusetts where the prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney has tried to make an issue out of the defendant's using a free-state model (with lighter trigger and/or without some safeties) or a grandfathered high-capacity magazine?

I would hope that such an attempt wouldn't go very far—but has anyone actually tried?
 
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What M1911 said. Ayoob and others have never said not too do a trigger job, just keep it within specs. 6lbs for an M&P no problem, 3 lbs (if you can even get it down that much) problem. 1911 4-5 lbs no problem, 3 lbs problem. You just want to avoid the "hair trigger" prosecution which jammed up a Miami cop years ago, and why PDs went to DAO revolvers before semi-autos took over.
 
M1911 said:
...He did suggest that if you carried a revolver that you consider having the hammer bobbed and the single action notch removed. This was based on a court case that he worked on where the DA alleged that the shooter cocked the gun and accidentally shot the perp. IIRC, the shooter was convicted of manslaughter as a result.
Click to expand...

mark056 said:
...You just want to avoid the "hair trigger" prosecution which jammed up a Miami cop years ago, and why PDs went to DAO revolvers before semi-autos took over.
Click to expand...

Same case?
 
M1911 said:
When I took LFI-1 and 2, Ayoob spoke about handgun modifications. He recommended that trigger jobs were fine provided that you kept the trigger pull at a reasonable weight - 4+ lbs for a single action trigger.

He did suggest that if you carried a revolver that you consider having the hammer bobbed and the single action notch removed. This was based on a court case that he worked on where the DA alleged that the shooter cocked the gun and accidentally shot the perp. IIRC, the shooter was convicted of manslaughter as a result.
Click to expand...

I never took a class with him just from his articles he pretty much advises against it. The thing is trigger pull is relative to the shooter 6lbs might be fine for a guy but a female shooter it coul be less.

I personally don't think a defensive pistol should be less than 4lbs but that's my opinion
 
I hate these threads.

Your judgement in deciding to apply deadly force to another human being is much more relevant than your particular choice of gun or ammunition. If someone has responsibly used deadly force within the contours of the inherent right of self-defense, the particular firearm or ammunition is irrelevant, assuming we're not spraying someone down with full-auto fire. Despite the popular NES opinion, people are not typically prosecuted for the responsible use of lethal force. When they are, its usually because the circumstances don't cleanly fall within the bounds of an acceptable and responsible use of lethal force.

On the other hand, if someone has irresponsibly used deadly force in circumstances that didn't warrant it, they're screwed anyway. So what difference does a modified gun make?

Know what you're doing and use your firearm responsibly and this other crap won't be important.

Just for the record, IMHO, guns requiring excessive force to activate the trigger and inherently dangerous and should be modified. A 6lbs. trigger is very reasonable and is consistent with how many manufacturers deliver their guns. In fact, the the spec trigger pull for a M&P9c is 6.5lbs. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57751_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
 
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Thing I never got about this .
If your going to use the gun in self defense your gonna pull the trigger no matter what.

Only way I could see legal problems if the gun magical went off in your holster ect.
 

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