Transferring a stripped AR lower that used to be a gun?

gxx9sdb

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I know that you don’t need to FA10 a stripped lower that was originally purchased as a stripped lower.

However, what if you are selling a stripped lower that was originally transferred into MA and is registered as a complete rifle? Would that need to be FA10’d and, if so, what do you put for barrel length, caliber etc?

Thank you
 

kope

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Jack ? Where you at ?

Just sell it as you would a complete rifle. Is it anything good? Im in the market for a lower.
 

CrackPot

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You can’t fa10 a stripped lower regardless of its past or how it self identifies.

Bill of sale. Done.

You might be thinking MIRCS matches up dispositions to acquisitions. You would be mistaken. It’s a write only database. They will always think that serial number belongs to you plus every other owner that has registered.

Bill of sale. Keep a copy.
 

gxx9sdb

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You can’t fa10 a stripped lower regardless of its past or how it self identifies.

Bill of sale. Done.

You might be thinking MIRCS matches up dispositions to acquisitions. You would be mistaken. It’s a write only database. They will always think that serial number belongs to you plus every other owner that has registered.

Bill of sale. Keep a copy.
Exactly what I was thinking. Thank you
 

ADC

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It's my understanding that lower is still a "complete rifle" according to the Feds.
It is the serialized part.
I believe you must use the portal in MA to transfer that within MA and use an FFL between states.
 

Mesatchornug

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It's my understanding that lower is still a "complete rifle" according to the Feds.
It is the serialized part.
I believe you must use the portal in MA to transfer that within MA and use an FFL between states.
An FFL above seems to disagree. Further, you can't EFA10 a barrel less than 16"
 

Alex9661

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It's my understanding that lower is still a "complete rifle" according to the Feds.
It is the serialized part.
I believe you must use the portal in MA to transfer that within MA and use an FFL between states.
Just for the record, lower is a firearm(not a rifle) according to the feds. It's totally different from the MA definition of firearm.
However, feds have nothing to do with the intrastate transfer of a lower. Only MA laws matter here. Bill of sale is enough. As a CYA move, I would also get a copy of a buyer's LTC.
 

mac1911

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Did you but a lower then build it out and EFA10 it?
If so mass law now says/thinks that serial number is a complete firearm capable of making a shot.
How well those records are used ? Can you strip a mass defined firearm down to the reciever and it no longer " is" a firearm per MA law?
If you sell it with out a FA10 transaction record what is the penalty?

For me since its already in the system I would do what makes you feel comfortable
I would just EFA10 it again.
 

Asaltweapon

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Did you but a lower then build it out and EFA10 it?
If so mass law now says/thinks that serial number is a complete firearm capable of making a shot.
How well those records are used ? Can you strip a mass defined firearm down to the reciever and it no longer " is" a firearm per MA law?
If you sell it with out a FA10 transaction record what is the penalty?

For me since its already in the system I would do what makes you feel comfortable
I would just EFA10 it again.
What are you going to do for a barrel length?
 
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Just out of curiosity (and a little boredom), based on the above advice, what is to stop you from taking apart an AR-15, selling/giving someone all of the non-serialized bits, and then selling/giving them the stripped lower on a BOS? What if there were a time lag?

Maybe it's moot because, legally, they would be required to file an eFA10 after they reassembled it?

I have not lived in MA for some time now, and have no skin in the game. It's just a question for my entertainment.
 

gxx9sdb

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Did you but a lower then build it out and EFA10 it?
If so mass law now says/thinks that serial number is a complete firearm capable of making a shot.
How well those records are used ? Can you strip a mass defined firearm down to the reciever and it no longer " is" a firearm per MA law?
If you sell it with out a FA10 transaction record what is the penalty?

For me since its already in the system I would do what makes you feel comfortable
I would just EFA10 it again.
just the opposite. Transferred a rifle and then stripped it.
 

mac1911

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Just for the record, lower is a firearm(not a rifle) according to the feds. It's totally different from the MA definition of firearm.
However, feds have nothing to do with the intrastate transfer of a lower. Only MA laws matter here. Bill of sale is enough. As a CYA move, I would also get a copy of a buyer's LTC.
just the opposite. Transferred a rifle and then stripped it.
ok so this rifle already has a paper trail.

I guess it comes down to MGL and said interpretation of such laws.

Once a reciever is capable of discharging a shot does stripping said reciever now make it a non firearm again?
 

CrackPot

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Just out of curiosity (and a little boredom), based on the above advice, what is to stop you from taking apart an AR-15, selling/giving someone all of the non-serialized bits, and then selling/giving them the stripped lower on a BOS? What if there were a time lag?

Maybe it's moot because, legally, they would be required to file an eFA10 after they reassembled it?

I have not lived in MA for some time now, and have no skin in the game. It's just a question for my entertainment.
Nothing stops you from doing what you are saying. And yes, they need to FA10 within 7 days of turning the bag of parts into a functional firearm.
 

CrackPot

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So if I strip all my ARs to lowers and put the other parts in a bag can I unregister them?
There is no "unregister". MIRCS is a write only database. Once the serial number is associated with your name it is associated with you forever. forever. If you sell it and do a FA10, the recipient will not have it associated with them, but it does not get "unregistered" from you. write only, yours forever.
 

ADC

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An FFL above seems to disagree. Further, you can't EFA10 a barrel less than 16"
I don't see the word "16" barrel" anywhere on the OP's post.
The lower is the firearm.
Also, It was originally classified and sold as a rifle. Sorry folks, as far as the FED'S are concerned, it remains a rifle.
The fact that it was stripped doesn't change that.

FWIW, the Feds have everything to do with the transfer of firearms within the state of MA or any state.
You guys are too funny.

Disclaimer; I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.
so;
Contact the ATF
Contact an Attorney
Contact the FRB.

You may do it any 'ole way you want and no one may ever say anything about it.
Didn't mean you were correct about the law.

Please, if you become a "Test Case", have the courtesy of posting the progress here.
 

Mesatchornug

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I don't see the word "16" barrel" anywhere on the OP's post.
The lower is the firearm.
Also, It was originally classified and sold as a rifle. Sorry folks, as far as the FED'S are concerned, it remains a rifle.
The fact that it was stripped doesn't change that.

FWIW, the Feds have everything to do with the transfer of firearms within the state of MA or any state.
You guys are too funny.

Disclaimer; I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.
so;
Contact the ATF
Contact an Attorney
Contact the FRB.

You may do it any 'ole way you want and no one may ever say anything about it.
Didn't mean you were correct about the law.

Please, if you become a "Test Case", have the courtesy of posting the progress here.
You are correct, things in MA are messy.

To the Feds, once a rifle always a rifle.

To MA, it's only a firearm if it's capable of firing a shot. Further, to transfer a rifle on the portal, it asks for barrel length and doesn't permit a length less than 16". When you transfer a stripped lower, it has no barrel. Just because some FFLs in the past have FA10ed stripped lowers doesn't change that it is not the correct way to deal with the transfer.
 

CrackPot

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I don't see the word "16" barrel" anywhere on the OP's post.
The lower is the firearm.
Also, It was originally classified and sold as a rifle. Sorry folks, as far as the FED'S are concerned, it remains a rifle.
The fact that it was stripped doesn't change that.

FWIW, the Feds have everything to do with the transfer of firearms within the state of MA or any state.
You guys are too funny.

Disclaimer; I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.
so;
Contact the ATF
Contact an Attorney
Contact the FRB.

You may do it any 'ole way you want and no one may ever say anything about it.
Didn't mean you were correct about the law.

Please, if you become a "Test Case", have the courtesy of posting the progress here.
You might need to stop posting. You are wrong on so many levels.

The federal government has no say in the intra state transfer of firearms between private individuals. That is purely subject to state law.

The federal government has NO idea what you bought, when you bought it, how it was configured, etc. That you have a rifle, bought a rifle, built a rifle, etc, no clue. none. zero. Unless it is an NFA item they know nothing. If you live in a state that uses the FBI for background checks (many dont and many dont require ANY background check if you have a CCW or other ID as they meet the Brady rules) then for 60 days they knew you were transferred a rifle, handgun or other. That is it. After that they know nothing. STOP MAKING SHIT UP.

The feds can trace a gun. That happens if it is used in a crime. They start with the manufacturer who points them to the distributor who points them to the dealer who says who they sold it to. After that they have to ask the person who bought it what happened. "I sold it to Joe, or maybe his name was Bob. We met at the local bar". Dead end. Nothing.

So break it apart and sell it in pieces. Dont sell the lower out of state as it requires an FFL.

I regularly deal in ATF traces (sell enough guns and statistically you will do them). They call and say "you got it on this day from this company. What is your disposition?" I then tell them. Sometimes it is not configured like they thought. I did not receive a pistol, I received a frame. They say "ok, disposition?" They dont care that it changed state, they just need to do the trace on the serialized portion.

This can result in oddities. I know a trace that was done where they asked for the disposition on a glock. The answer was "I have it in my hand, no disposition and its a frame, not a pistol". As you might know glock barrels and slides also have serial numbers. Someone broke the gun down and sold the pieces separately. The slide ended up on a P80 lower with no serial number so they traced the serial number which of course follows the frame (what FFLs deal in). Dead end.
 
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ADC

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Well, I won't stop posting.

I may have asked the question about this before on more than one occasion to the ATF directly.
Not on this post BTW.
The question came up on another matter.

You guys do what you want.
Not my Ass on the line.

Many of you should stop posting. You may have been "Stretching" the law all along.
As I said, post the results of your test case should it happen.
 
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Well, I won't stop posting.

I may have asked the question about this before on more than one occasion to the ATF directly.
Not on this post BTW.
The question came up on another matter.

You guys do what you want.
Not my Ass on the line.

Many of you should stop posting. You may have been "Stretching" the law all along.
As I said, post the results of your test case should it happen.
Follow the letter of the law, not interpretations you get from cops (Local, state, or fed) they are rarely right and will face no adverse consequences for telling you the wrong thing. It is not a stretch to do exactly what the law says, even if some might be paranoid and thus add their own extra nonsense in some misguided attempt to "Stay safe". I am not a lawyer, but you are making claims about this being against the law with no cite to a relevant law that I have seen.
 
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Well, I won't stop posting.

I may have asked the question about this before on more than one occasion to the ATF directly.
Not on this post BTW.
The question came up on another matter.

You guys do what you want.
Not my Ass on the line.

Many of you should stop posting. You may have been "Stretching" the law all along.
As I said, post the results of your test case should it happen.

CrackPot knows more then you do. Trust me. Step away from the keyboard.
 

btnh6668

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Perhaps a silly question. Why not just do the EFA-10 as a completed rifle and then the new owner can do wtf they want? No one other than you and the seller will know if its complete or not. Since its remaining in state and id imagine they will build on it and not just use it as a paper weight. Im guessing i am missing something.
 

jpm

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actually you can FA10 a 0" barreled rifle. That's exactly what Four Seasons was doing before the Healy crackdown happened. I bought a stripped lower there and it was FA10'd with a 0" barrel and a caliber of .223 (which was an assumption apparently) when I bought it. Still have the FA10 form for it.
 
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The way an "undone" lower would get you in trouble is as follows - and fed law makes a difference in any state.

Take a rifle, which MA knows as a rifle. Strip it, sell it as an "other" as mentioned.

You sold a rifle by fed law, which is ok except that the current owner doesn't know that. If it's made into a pistol somebody broke the fed law - who I dunno. I can think of scenarios how such would get caught but they are pretty obscure, however the whole once a rifle always a rifle is fairly clear/known. Put a barrel < 16 on that lower, no matter how the lower is configured, and the feds say it's an SBR.
 
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You cannot do that anymore on that site



actually you can FA10 a 0" barreled rifle. That's exactly what Four Seasons was doing before the Healy crackdown happened. I bought a stripped lower there and it was FA10'd with a 0" barrel and a caliber of .223 (which was an assumption apparently) when I bought it. Still have the FA10 form for it.
 

CrackPot

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actually you can FA10 a 0" barreled rifle. That's exactly what Four Seasons was doing before the Healy crackdown happened. I bought a stripped lower there and it was FA10'd with a 0" barrel and a caliber of .223 (which was an assumption apparently) when I bought it. Still have the FA10 form for it.
Try it and report out about how that works for you...

That has not been possible for over 2 years. Around the time they sent out the love letter to all dealers to stop selling shockwaves, they updates MIRCS with bounds checking

handguns only under 16"
shotguns only over 18"
rifles only over 16"

Try and register outside those bounds and it does not go through. No way to register your 0" lower as a rifle anymore

But thank you for playing our game
 
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Just for the record, lower is a firearm(not a rifle) according to the feds. It's totally different from the MA definition of firearm.
However, feds have nothing to do with the intrastate transfer of a lower. Only MA laws matter here. Bill of sale is enough. As a CYA move, I would also get a copy of a buyer's LTC.
The 'feds' really don't don't give 2 farts once you're done with the 4473. Outside your BS states, you can pretty much do whatever you want with a lower, or legal gun for that matter. Unfortunately, SBR's (now we have 'pistols') and suppressors are regulated, but other than that, no one cares.
 
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except FTF transfer to a resident of another state.
I just looked it up, which I should have done in the first place. Louisiana requires you use a valid DL to substantiate age. Other than that, nothing needs to be done. Bill of Sale is smart, but optional. So, yeah, that would stop an out of state purchase in general.
 
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