Stray bullet from angle tree hits house

[jasons]

2000yds? really? So if it were a 1000 yds (i think 2000 is just not going to happen) they are saying it flew 1000 yds without losing power, hitting other objects and was able to penetrate? I cant see it.
View attachment 152840

Math is math dude. The numbers were posted earlier in this thread. A standard 230 gran FMJ hardball load would easily travel 1000+ yards and still have enough energy to break a window. (And for what it's worth it wasn't even 1000 yards, more like 850.)

Do people really think bullets just fall out of the air once they hit the club property line? Every time a round gets out of a club people start with the "no way a 45 can go 1000 yards" crap. It can. And before everyone starts crying, I'm not saying that it DID happen in this case only that it absolutely COULD have happened. Know your backstop and what's beyond it.

 

[HuntMaine]

Math is math dude. The numbers were posted earlier in this thread. A standard 230 gran FMJ hardball load would easily travel 1000+ yards and still have enough energy to break a window. (And for what it's worth it wasn't even 1000 yards, more like 850.)

Do people really think bullets just fall out of the air once they hit the club property line? Every time a round gets out of a club people start with the "no way a 45 can go 1000 yards" crap. It can. And before everyone starts crying, I'm not saying that it DID happen in this case only that it absolutely COULD have happened. Know your backstop and what's beyond it.

Well in reality bullets do begin falling once they leave the muzzle, its just physics So unless it was the picture perfect day (no wind etc), and the shooter was able to get the round off at ~30 degrees launch it 1400+ yds, not 850 , then weave thru the heavy tree cover and hit the window with still enough energy to penetrate both panes and land on his floor.....Im thinking BS it came from somewhere else.

 

[Billsail]

[Q] From exteriorballistics.com The examples calculated below show the surprising maximum range of just a single handgun cartridge, the 45 ACP loaded with Sierra’s 230 grain Full Metal Jacket Match bullet to a muzzle velocity of 850 fps under several variations of firing conditions. All these examples are calculated for standard atmospheric conditions, of course adjusted for altitude automatically within Infinity.
Firing Pt. Reference Maximum Bore Elevation
Altitude Slope Range Angle
500 ft. 0 deg 2096.3 yds. +33 deg
500 + 15 1851.0 + 42
500 - 15 2450.4 + 23
5000 0 2265.7 + 33
5000 + 15 1992.7 + 43
5000 - 15 2663.0 + 24
It is evident that the maximum horizontal range of this cartridge is well over a mile (1760 yards) and that it varies significantly with the altitude of the firing point. It is also quite apparent that the reference slope angle has a large effect on the maximum range.

Note also that the bore elevation angle is with respect to the local level at the firing point, not with respect to the reference slope. A common misconception among many shooters is that the bore elevation angle that maximizes the horizontal range is 45 degrees. It may be seen that for this 45 ACP cartridge that angle is 33 degrees. A 45 degree bore elevation angle would maximize the range if the gun were fired in a vacuum. Air drag, however, changes the physics of the trajectory dramatically. It turns out that the bore elevation angle for maximum horizontal range is around 30 degrees for all small arms bullets fired on the surface of the earth.[/Q]

Note the two examples where the terrain is flat. 0 degree slope. A ricochet could easily travel half that distance. All it would take would be a negligent shot to the ground, at the right angle, to a perfectly placed (by nature) rock. To say it's not possible is disingenuous.

 

[jasons]

Well in reality bullets do begin falling once they leave the muzzle, its just physics

Yes they do, at a very predictable rate.

So unless it was the picture perfect day (no wind etc), and the shooter was able to get the round off at ~30 degrees launch it 1400+ yds, not 850 , then weave thru the heavy tree cover and hit the window with still enough energy to penetrate both panes and land on his floor.....Im thinking BS it came from somewhere else.

Well, Google Earth shows the house that was reported to get hit to be about 850 yards straight from the firing line, but even if it was 1400 (which it wasn't) it would still have enough energy to break a couple panes of glass. Again it could happen. Doesn't mean it did but it could.

 

[bigblue]

If only the range used smart gun technology this all could have been avoided!

 

[Point37]

Yes they do, at a very predictable rate.



Well, Google Earth shows the house that was reported to get hit to be about 850 yards straight from the firing line, but even if it was 1400 (which it wasn't) it would still have enough energy to break a couple panes of glass. Again it could happen. Doesn't mean it did but it could.

^^^right...from the north end of the firing line building (closest to the house) to #5 chris drive is about 2500ft straight line...how much energy would the bullet have at the distance required to arc over that straight line distance and hit the window? what is the amount of energy it would take to break 2 panes of glass? where did the dent in the bullet come from?

 

[HuntMaine]

If only the range used smart gun technology this all could have been avoided!

or bullets with Name and Address printed on them

 

[jasons]

^^^right...from the north end of the firing line building (closest to the house) to #5 chris drive is about 2500ft straight line...how much energy would the bullet have at the distance required to arc over that straight line distance and hit the window? what is the amount of energy it would take to break 2 panes of glass? where did the dent in the bullet come from?

According to Sierra's ballistics calculator at 833 yards (2500 ft,) a pretty standard 230 grain hardball load would still have about 141 ft/lbs of energy.

 

[HuntMaine]

^^^right...from the north end of the firing line building (closest to the house) to #5 chris drive is about 2500ft straight line...how much energy would the bullet have at the distance required to arc over that straight line distance and hit the window? what is the amount of energy it would take to break 2 panes of glass? where did the dent in the bullet come from?

Still though you cant aim at 30 degrees you would hit the roof or blocking plate of that shooting bench. Still seems impossible.

 

[robjax]

I wish I could find the video....A long time ago there was an accidental shooting death at a gun club. There was a cowboy shoot or something going on at the outdoor range and some other target shooting going on at an indoor range that was significantly behind the outdoor range and the shooting was perpendicular to the outdoor range. So if i remember some of the detail correctly they proved the gun the bullet came from through ballistics. The gun was fired at the indoor range. The round got out and killed someone to the shooters right.

Somehow there was a ricochet and the round got up into the ceiling and existed through a vent. They tracked the bullet by marks it left along its path. their reenactment was the freakiest thing I had ever seen. To see the building and where the shooter fired from to the path of the round to the victim you would not believe it.

It was just the victims day to die when you see something like that.

If this sounds familiar to anyone and you can find this video on-line and post it here that would be great.

 

[ToddDubya]

Still though you cant aim at 30 degrees you would hit the roof or blocking plate of that shooting bench. Still seems impossible.

Didn't they say the pistol range has no such roof? I thought I read somewhere in this thread that the rifle range has the fancy roof but the pistol range doesn't. This isn't a long thread but I don't care enough to go digging.

 

[rogues]

It was said and corrected, pistol range has a roof.

 

[spt_1955]

I wish I could find the video....A long time ago there was an accidental shooting death at a gun club. There was a cowboy shoot or something going on at the outdoor range and some other target shooting going on at an indoor range that was significantly behind the outdoor range and the shooting was perpendicular to the outdoor range. So if i remember some of the detail correctly they proved the gun the bullet came from through ballistics. The gun was fired at the indoor range. The round got out and killed someone to the shooters right.

Somehow there was a ricochet and the round got up into the ceiling and existed through a vent. They tracked the bullet by marks it left along its path. their reenactment was the freakiest thing I had ever seen. To see the building and where the shooter fired from to the path of the round to the victim you would not believe it.

It was just the victims day to die when you see something like that.

If this sounds familiar to anyone and you can find this video on-line and post it here that would be great.

Dude... you have 4,000 posts... Go Green will you!!!!

 

[spt_1955]

If only the range used smart gun technology this all could have been avoided!

Yes but smart gun technology imprints the cartridge not the bullets.... Does anybody have ballistics on a .45ACP spent cartridge ejected at ~300FPS over the shooters right shoulder at a 48 degree angle of departure? Could it travel 850 yards and perhaps be laying in the victims front yard?

 

[Fixxah]

I bet the owner used a wrist rocket to launch the pill if this is indeed what was found.

 

[EMTDAD]

here we go again.. not sure what's up with this club.. but they have their hands full.. I know it's paid access.. I don't have it.. maybe someone else here can post the entire article.

Residents seek court order to stop North Attleboro gun club from using outdoor range

NORTH ATTLEBORO — Neighbors of the North Attleboro Angle Tree Stone Rod and Gun Club want a court to stop the club from using its outdoor shooting range until safety

www.thesunchronicle.com

 

[namedpipes]

here we go again.. not sure what's up with this club.. but they have their hands full.. I know it's paid access.. I don't have it.. maybe someone else here can post the entire article.

Residents seek court order to stop North Attleboro gun club from using outdoor range

NORTH ATTLEBORO — Neighbors of the North Attleboro Angle Tree Stone Rod and Gun Club want a court to stop the club from using its outdoor shooting range until safety

www.thesunchronicle.com

Bad neighbors, usually. "guns bad! ban them!"

The article doesn't appear to be paywalled: (clipped some inflammatory or irrelevant parts)

NORTH ATTLEBORO — Neighbors of the North Attleboro Angle Tree Stone Rod and Gun Club want a court to stop the club from using its outdoor shooting range until safety improvements are made.

The neighbors are seeking a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction in a lawsuit in Bristol County Superior Court against the club and two of its officers.

[ ... anecdotal "proof" of the negligent shootings ... ]

But in a court filing he asked the court to stop the club “from continuing to fire handguns at this patently and objectively unsafe gun range before it is more than just property that is struck by a bullet.”

A hearing is scheduled Sept. 1.

The club denies the allegations and says the range is safe.

In their opposition to the neighbors’ request, a lawyer for the club says the errant bullets came from others in woods separating the club from the neighborhood and not from Angle Tree Stone property.

“Angle Tree denies, and no credible evidence suggests that bullets from the club property as opposed to some other locations are landing outside the club property and/or have hit houses,” Eric Goldman, a Boston lawyer for the club wrote.

“Rather, shootings have been determined to be occurring in areas not on Angle Tree property or under Angle Tree’s control,” Goldman said.

...

The club maintains that a 30-foot dirt berm at the end of the range and metal “eyebrows” and boxes filled with stone would capture rounds aimed too high.

The expert hired by the plaintiffs said the safety measures at the range are “woefully inadequate.”

David Linton may be reached at 508-236-0338.

 

[Buck F]

here we go again.. not sure what's up with this club.. but they have their hands full.. I know it's paid access.. I don't have it.. maybe someone else here can post the entire article.

Residents seek court order to stop North Attleboro gun club from using outdoor range

NORTH ATTLEBORO — Neighbors of the North Attleboro Angle Tree Stone Rod and Gun Club want a court to stop the club from using its outdoor shooting range until safety

www.thesunchronicle.com

Here's a pdf of the article:

 

[EMTDAD]

Here's a pdf of the article:

Thanks.. figured you might have access..

Linton, the writer, isn't generally friendly in his writing towards gun owners.

 

[Buck F]

Thanks.. figured you might have access..

Linton, the writer, isn't generally friendly in his writing towards gun owners.

He's an absolute douche. He's the crime reporter and every article he writes states that the "defendant pleaded innocent" despite there being no such plea.

 

[1776]

Was it a ratty reload

 

[Dennis in MA]

Pile of BS, I think. Someone admitted hearing gunfire closer than the range. A .45 going 3/4 of a mile and landing in a house??? You're lobbing them at that range. Bullet drop on a 45 is something like 150 at 1,000 yards. Quick calc on an online ballistics calculator, using a 200gr bullet, you're talking a 25 or so degree firing angle, a 60 degree landing angle and 100 feet of elevation at the peak of the arc near 600yds out.

That's not target ammo. That's not normal ammo. Hot Cor-Bon 200gr. Any lead ammo is going to have to be fired like a mortar. LOL

 

[Frizzle Fry]

How come the window had a hole in it but not the screen? (0:41)

She later says that the screen had a hole, but I don't see it in the video. I suppose it could have been repaired but the window wasn't.

Repairing screens is tedious. I really doubt they would bother that quickly... Maybe they grabbed a screen from another window?

 

[GaryO]

Repairing screens is tedious. I really doubt they would bother that quickly... Maybe they grabbed a screen from another window?

It really shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes to repair a screen.

 

[Kevin_NH]

If this sounds familiar to anyone and you can find this video on-line and post it here that would be great.

Forensic Files Season 1 Episode 2: The Magic Bullet

 

[LTCRN]

Was it a ratty reload

There is no doubt it wouldn't be!!!!! The concerned should do an ANALysis to see if there is evidence of cheese residue on the boolit!

 

[drgrant]

Forensic Files Season 1 Episode 2: The Magic Bullet

That's terrible some kid basically got killed because the range was so shitty. That berm is terribly short. I find it kind of ironic that it has like all the usual faglaroid grade "Safety" features you see at fudd ranges that have been bolted down, yet the berm itself, the most important part, is pathetically short and bad.

 

[1903Collector]

Pile of BS, I think. Someone admitted hearing gunfire closer than the range.

When I'm shooting at my range in Swansea I occasionally here gunfire that's close by but not on club property.

 

[Miguelito]

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but the first time I fired a .357 I am pretty sure the bullet left the range. I was new to handguns and had never fired more than a 9mm, and that only once. I was at an outdoor pistol range at a friend's gun club. It did not have cover over the firing line, but it had big creosote logs overhead maybe twenty feet out to catch high shots. Well when I fired the .357 for the first, and only time, it felt like an explosion going off, the gun jumped up and I do not think it hit the barrier. I think it went off range.

 

[gerrycaruso]

I know from experience that I have to hold between 6 and 8 feet high depending on ammo to hit at 200 yards with a .45acp pistol. The club is 1000 yards away? This doesn't add up.