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Stray bullet from angle tree hits house
- Thread starter Maxspeed
- Start date
rogues
NES Member
As one of the fudds that was there at that pin shoot I can tell you that'd be pretty damn impossible for it to go up given where we were shooting from on the line and the steel plates overhead and the berm behind. And I can't say that the berm is 60' high but it's pretty damn high. Only way I could say it was possible was if it was a ricochet, but a ricochet would lose a lot of energy on the pins. People were firing more downward at those pins.
pastera
NES Member
Using the pencil as reference, it does appear to be a 45
2500 feet from 50yd line to the house - ballistics calculator puts that at 3.4° up angle with a max height of about 42'
The problem here is assuming a starting height of 5' that would put the bullet at 14' at the berm. To get over a 20' berm the start angle would need to be at least 5.7° and the bullet would need to be travelling around 620 FPS to hit the house (max height of about 62')
Definitely possible to do but looking at the image of the window it looks a lot like it came from the tree line down the street.
Would like to know where the bullet landed in the house.
2500 feet from 50yd line to the house - ballistics calculator puts that at 3.4° up angle with a max height of about 42'
The problem here is assuming a starting height of 5' that would put the bullet at 14' at the berm. To get over a 20' berm the start angle would need to be at least 5.7° and the bullet would need to be travelling around 620 FPS to hit the house (max height of about 62')
Definitely possible to do but looking at the image of the window it looks a lot like it came from the tree line down the street.
Would like to know where the bullet landed in the house.
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I stand corrected, I must losing it. You are correct.
Duxprep
NES Member
Correct. They have steel eyebrows. One would have to be in front of the line to shoot at an angle to leave the range
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So I spoke to Ted Oven today. (I live 2 miles from both Angle Tree and his shop).
I kiddingly asked him why he's making such a ruckus over at the range. So, Ted showed me the ballistics data on a .45, going over a 35ft tall berm, 60 yards away... not really a chance that could of happened. He also showed me the data of a ricochet (given the % of the energy that would be lost), not even close for the round to have travel that far. Also, there is acres of trees between the range and Chris Dr. The police chief reviewed the ballistics data and did not find a reason to stop shooting at the range.
The bullet was a FMJ, but had a large dent in the side of it. They had been shooting bowling pins and Ted showed me the video of him shooting - there were 2 range officers standing on either side of him. He thought the shoot went very well and without incident. There are steel plates that shield the shooter from seeing the sky over the top of the berm from the line - basically, you would have to do something stupid to shoot over the berm from the line - as previously indicated by those that shoot there.
Ted said he visited with the homeowners (who were very nice he claimed) and saw the screen and window. Interestingly the mirror close by on the inside of the room was untouched. He tried to explain the ballistics to the homeowner, but not sure if it was completely understood on how the angle, drop, and energy calculations work.
I kiddingly asked him why he's making such a ruckus over at the range. So, Ted showed me the ballistics data on a .45, going over a 35ft tall berm, 60 yards away... not really a chance that could of happened. He also showed me the data of a ricochet (given the % of the energy that would be lost), not even close for the round to have travel that far. Also, there is acres of trees between the range and Chris Dr. The police chief reviewed the ballistics data and did not find a reason to stop shooting at the range.
The bullet was a FMJ, but had a large dent in the side of it. They had been shooting bowling pins and Ted showed me the video of him shooting - there were 2 range officers standing on either side of him. He thought the shoot went very well and without incident. There are steel plates that shield the shooter from seeing the sky over the top of the berm from the line - basically, you would have to do something stupid to shoot over the berm from the line - as previously indicated by those that shoot there.
Ted said he visited with the homeowners (who were very nice he claimed) and saw the screen and window. Interestingly the mirror close by on the inside of the room was untouched. He tried to explain the ballistics to the homeowner, but not sure if it was completely understood on how the angle, drop, and energy calculations work.
By someone with a Gen 4 Glock that they purchased at Bass Pro!
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It's a .45... its just deformed cause it hit/went through something on the way there.
ETA: I love how the article blames the gun club but doesn't discuss the obvious, that it could be some other guy who had an ND, etc, in the neighborhood. I mean if there was shooting going on when it happened that's one thing, but if the guy just came home and found it there, god only knows where it -really- came from...
-Mike
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Not sure when it happened...but if it happened during the pin shoot couldn't someone have been in the woods nearer to the house that was shot and been using the noise from the gun club to mask the noise from his shooting? Could be no?
Interested to see how this comes out...
Interested to see how this comes out...
Muzzle velocity of 45 ACP is ~250 m/s. Shooting up at a 45 degree angle, a round will travel a bit over 6km and be going pretty darned fast when it comes down too.
Ballistics will tell the police where it came from. My guess is someone missed the berm.
Unless I misunderstood this and the house the house was about 1/2 mile away or anywhere within 4,800 feet of the firing point this is definitely within the distance of a .45 ACP.
http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/45acp.htm
http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/45acp.htm
Ballistics
Bullet Weight 230 grain (14.9 grams)
Bullet Type FMJ
Ballistic Coefficient .195
Muzzle Velocity 830 feet per second
Energy at 25 yards 350 foot-pounds
Effective Range 100 yards
Mid-Range Trajectory 1.6 @ 50 yardsExterior ballistics
Maximum range In pistol, 1,600 yards.
In submachine gun, 1,700 yards.
Bullet Weight 230 grain (14.9 grams)
Bullet Type FMJ
Ballistic Coefficient .195
Muzzle Velocity 830 feet per second
Energy at 25 yards 350 foot-pounds
Effective Range 100 yards
Mid-Range Trajectory 1.6 @ 50 yardsExterior ballistics
Maximum range In pistol, 1,600 yards.
In submachine gun, 1,700 yards.
namedpipes
NES Member
Did I read correctly that this range is a "no blue sky" range? If so, and if the bullet did come from the range, it was a ricochet. As a ricochet, it would not have the energy to travel that far, so it didn't come from the range.
The bullet was fired from a gun in the neighborhood of the house that was hit.
The perpetrator is a youngster effing with daddy's gun or a tactiboob operator with an ND.
The bullet was fired from a gun in the neighborhood of the house that was hit.
The perpetrator is a youngster effing with daddy's gun or a tactiboob operator with an ND.
Government conspiracy.
Sweeney
NES Member
From the pictures, the hole in the screen and the hole in the window are at the same height. This means the bullet was traveling horizontally as it passed through both. For the bullet to be fired from a long range it would be dropping at a significant angle and would be evidenced by the holes being offset and elliptical. Also, if you align the holes and peer through them, what do you see?
F
Finalygotabeltfed
Just a wild guess.......but the edge of the guy's back yard?
namedpipes
NES Member
Perhaps the house is located at the top edge of a very, very high cliff and the shooter was at the bottom. The bullet would have been traveling approximately horizontal at the point it curves over for its return to earth.
