STOP ERPO TODAY!!! - Light Up The State House Phones!

[Boston4567]

It doesn't matter who initially crafted the legislation - this stuff doesn't move through the halls of Govt. in a vacuum or secret back-room. It's a Living Document until it is voted into law - instead of getting involved, and participating in the process to shape the legislation, the SOP dictated that it be 'blocked' entirely.

How well did that work? Not a good tactic. ERPO WAS GOING TO HAPPEN - there's 'common sense' behind it, there's populist support behind it, and there was emotional groundswell in the Statehouse behind it. It doesn't play well to the notion that 'nobody' is a Prohibited Person, so obviously everyone is flat-footed on this? Who was in the committee that moved this Bill forward, and did anyone meet with anyone to discuss the contents of the legislation? Yea, I didn't think so.

You either get creative in getting guns OUT of the hands of people like Nikolas Cruz and Seung-Hui Cho, and empower LEOs to make that happen effectively, or the next step will be a NATIONWIDE AWB/mag BAN. If Legislation doesn't happen to get PP individuals identified and flagged correctly, the next logical step for the Antis is to remove firearms access for everyone - Society says there's a problem, and it will be legislated to "solution" eventually. As a minority, you can't afford to pretend that the problem isn't "there" - you will lose. That is the new reality in the Gun Debate - do you want to steer the ship, or get dragged behind it? Your decision.

Most of this is nonsense, and the idea that it's even possible to identify and get guns out of the hands of mass shooters effectively without compromising the rights of everyone else is rather silly. To the extent that's possible, it's possible with existing laws. Also, mass shootings are vanishingly rare.

That said, I will say this. It's been clear for a while that this bill was being steamrolled through by the Bloomberg/Everytown machine. If I were GOAL, I would have taken a different tack on this bill.

It's clear with this bill that, as usual, the antis know nothing about the laws as they stand in this state. I think there was (and MAYBE still is, but probably not) an opportunity here to use this bill as a vehicle to firm up the law around "suitability" suspensions/revocations in a way that benefits us.

For example, one could imagine the complete substitution of an ERPO-like process (revocation requires ex parte court motion with automatically scheduled hearing, burden of proof is on PD) for the existing unilateral police authority. This would give the antis a 'win' allowing them to check their "ERPO" box for Massachusetts on their scorecards and put out press releases saying they passed an ERPO bill, while also giving us a defined process that doesn't burden shift.

The fact is, in Massachusetts, the only gun bills that are going to pass are the ones that "toughen" up gun laws. For bills that are clearly going to pass, we have to sway the legislature to include things that make things better for us on the ground but still give them their press releases. In a state with laws as convoluted as ours, it's pretty doable, in my opinion.

 

[boscru]

300,000 LTC's in MA. 16,000 Goal members.

Goal isn't the problem

should be a requirement that registered users prove membership in goal and/or comm 2A before registration is accepted on nes. i know, probably not feasible, just daydreaming

 

[Matt_SERE]

should be a requirement that registered users prove membership in goal and/or comm 2A before registration is accepted on nes. i know, probably not feasible, just daydreaming

And for the other 5 states that make up New England? What about everyone else outside of NE?

 

[boscru]

And for the other 5 states that make up New England? What about everyone else outside of NE?

that's why i said not feasible. had the out-of staters in mind. i'm a considerate SOB sometimes.


seriously though, anyone mass resident on nes obviously is in tune with mass gun laws & should be kicking in $30.00 to goal, and if possible $50.00 to comm2A

 

[MichaelJames1971]

Someone doesn't understand how MA legislature works.

Right - everything happens in-secret, with zero transparency. I didn't know Mike Bloomberg was elected Governor....my mistake.

Tell that to Vermont's gun owners. Not only is shitberg pushing legislation, his aides are also giving moonbats some tips on how to ram it through to avoid public exposure of the legislation for anything more than a short window of time.

I'll let Vermont decide if their elected Representatives behave in this manner, and whether they get-away with it or not. Methinks it won't be popular, regardless of the issue being legislated. I don't think anyone in MA would tolerate it.

Sorry but this is pure bullshit. There isn't anyone writing letters to legislators demanding this other than the anti shills about ERPO. ERPO is a pure shitberg production through and through. There is no real groundswell of support for ERPO anywhere, that whole idea is a shitberg phantasm to push incrementalist policy against gun ownership as a generality.

Looks like someone was napping after Parkland. In a Cave. With no internet or TV coverage. All those people marching on Washington? You think "something" wasn't going to be proposed in MA in-response to FL cops visiting Cruz MULTIPLE times, yet somehow not getting flagged as a PP, and no firearms confiscated? You're FLAT delusional. Or painfully naïve. Oh, wait...it was all Obama's fault, I forgot the 'excuses script' here at NES.

Not sure what you mean by this, but this just sounds like spew.

It means what I said - MA is one of the leaders, Nationally, when it comes to guns. If you thought the MA state legislature was going to sit on their hands after Parkland, and not pass anything, you must be sitting on a HUUUUGE pile of bump-stocks right now.....how did GOAL do in anticipating that ban? How did you do in anticipating the speed at-which that legislation happened? The anti-gun playbook hasn't changed - but neither has the public or political engagement.

LMAO... you really think that GOAL or anyone else would have been given an opportunity to meet with the moonbats/cronies in MA leg. to discuss this? That's laughable, on its
face. This bill didn't even go to a public hearing (at least, that I can recall) it has so far more or less just been rammed through.

If GOAL doesn't work to "come to the table" - somehow, some way, then other than being a digital dog-whistle (as-useful as a smoke detector that goes-off after the house is fully-engulfed), then I don't see them being a 'player' here - or anywhere. Period.

There's already like at least 3-4 ways under MGL to take guns from people at the drop of a hat. Most of them involve NO or barely ANY due process. Not sure why you think we would need ERPO when one phone call from "concerned citizen mary hairnet" to a police chief is probably enough to cause a license suspension in MA, without due process. Chiefs in MA are already fully empowered to take someones LTC and guns away for
pretty much any reason they can invent on the fly. And even if their reason is pure shit, the courts will usually back them up on it regardless if it comes down to that.

Then you admit that a sound, reasonable case could have been made that the law is CRAP, and overlaps existing legal avenues and just makes a total mess of the situation at-hand. Why wasn't that case made to someone - anyone - ??? If the case doesn't get made in the first place, and we don't have a voice to make it publicly, then my point has been made.

So all ERPO really does in MA is amount to being a grandstanding tool for anti gun moonbats and anti gun politicians.

Well, what about this part :

"Section 131AA. (a) Any person who files a petition for an extreme risk protection order, knowing the information in the petition to be materially false or with intent to harass the respondent, shall be punished by a fine of no more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for no more than 3 years in the house of corrections."

Did this exist prior to the law? What does this mean to you? The door was open, nobody walked-in.

No, anti gun douchebags say there is a problem, but its all bullshit- this problem you speak of, is largely statistical noise. (at least compared to actual acts of violence involving firearms in the US).

Arguing that everything is "statistical noise" is fine when everyone agrees with your data and its sources. Are we 'there' yet? No? Then what happened to "A good defense is a strong offense"?

Yeah, but maintaining the BOLD FACED LIE about this being "some kind of a problem" doesn't help anyone.


-Mike

Cruz was practically carrying a sign over his head, begging to be declared a PP - and it didn't happen. Everyone knows that - except, of course, you. When police take thirty-nine bites of the apple, and utterly FAIL to disarm this nut, with the public having ZERO recourse for Broward County's finest-failure....well, what lie are we telling ourselves?

 

[headednorth]

Are you not aware of the program in place in Broward County to prevent kids from being arrested? No arrest, no case, no conviction, no PP status.

 

[Freddy B]

should be a requirement that registered users prove membership in goal and/or comm 2A before registration is accepted on nes. i know, probably not feasible, just daydreaming

An interesting idea. While a cross-membership *requirement* is probably infeasible, some formalization of the relationship between the community and regional pro 2A groups could be arranged and would be to everyone's benefit.

 

[headednorth]

Too many people on the site aren't MA residents to make that work. I know I wouldn't go out of my way to join a CA based org just so I could browse calguns. Would be nice for more clubs to make it a requirement though.

 

[drgrant]

Right - everything happens in-secret, with zero transparency. I didn't know Mike Bloomberg was elected Governor....my mistake.

How do you think the Attorney General in MA is always 110% anti gun? Do you think that is a
coincidence?

Have you ever actually paid attention to bills in this state? Go back in time a little bit and look at some of the
other bills that GOAL has been intimately involved in. One or two bad seeds would stick something in there
that we didn't like...

I'll let Vermont decide if their elected Representatives behave in this manner, and whether they get-away with it or not. Methinks it won't be popular, regardless of the issue being legislated. I don't think anyone in MA would tolerate it.

Not sure if serious, or just trolling....

Protip: This is the state where the legislators just gave themselves a huge payraise and like 100 people complained, the rest all rolled over and went "THANK YOU SIR MAY I HAVE ANOTHER?"

Tell us all about the citizens in MA not tolerating something the legislature did. Please, enlighten us.

Looks like someone was napping after Parkland. In a Cave. With no internet or TV coverage. All those people marching on Washington?

Yes, all the pussy hat march leftovers/recycles recruited by shitberg et al, with gussying from MSM, that's a real grassroots movement you got there.... Oh and those school protests where nobody protested unless they were more or less chaperoned outside by school administrators to do so... lol.. so powerful. Then a week or two
later a bunch of research came out from some college types doing political research, and they found out that
like 60% of the protesters consisted pretty much of the archetype of "white broads over 40" It's a movement that
made more noise on television sets than in real life.

Yes, We get it, you think everything is a movement when the NY communist times writes about it or its brayed about on DemSNBC or Crescent News Network. Thanks for filling us in with those searing, in depth investigative
tidbits....

You think "something" wasn't going to be proposed in MA in-response to FL cops visiting Cruz MULTIPLE times, yet somehow not getting flagged as a PP, and no firearms confiscated? You're FLAT delusional. Or painfully naïve. Oh, wait...it was all Obama's fault, I forgot the 'excuses script' here at NES.

When did I say any of that? Oh wait, I didn't.

It means what I said - MA is one of the leaders, Nationally, when it comes to guns.

Not really, given it spends almost nothing on gun control. It's got a ways to go... Most of MA's gun control
schema is a paper tiger. Look at commiefornia WRT what MA moonbats aspire to be, but can't bring themselves to spend money to achieve, lmao...

You don't get it do you- this whole ERPO thing is a shitberg put up job- they want ERPO legal in as many places as
possible to try to normalize it. MA is just one of many "stops" they made. I would also wager they've floated it in states that aren't nearly as anti as MA is, as well.

If you thought the MA state legislature was going to sit on their hands after Parkland, and not pass anything, you must be sitting on a HUUUUGE pile of bump-stocks right now.....how did GOAL do in anticipating that ban?

Who says that someone anticipating something can even do something about it? That's another bill that
appeared and got rammed through in about 10 nanoseconds. We couldn't even get the governor to at least
consider rejecting it on takings issues alone.

How did you do in anticipating the speed at-which that legislation happened? The anti-gun playbook hasn't changed - but neither has the public or political engagement.

It's changed a lot apparently, because I've been a gun owner in this shithole over 15 years and I've never seen
legislation moved this fast. Usually there are hearings, and multiple versions of bills being tossed around, etc. Then again most of the stuff filed is more pie in the sky than narrow pin-prick legislation like this crap. Shitberg has
obviously spent a lot of money working this stuff.

If GOAL doesn't work to "come to the table" - somehow, some way, then other than being a digital dog-whistle (as-useful as a smoke detector that goes-off after the house is fully-engulfed), then I don't see them being a 'player' here - or anywhere. Period.

Interact with some of MA's finest legislators (I suggest starting with David Linsky or Cynthia Creem, if you want a real treat... lmao) and then tell us how easy it is to "come to the table". GOAL frequently does get to the table, when some of the parliamentary parlor tricks aren't used at every turn to ram bills through.

Then you admit that a sound, reasonable case could have been made that the law is CRAP, and overlaps existing legal avenues and just makes a total mess of the situation at-hand. Why wasn't that case made to someone - anyone - ??? If the case doesn't get made in the first place, and we don't have a voice to make it publicly, then my point has been made.

I won't speak for GOAL but I would wager an excellent guess that all of the above has been mentioned to legislators several times since this percolated out, and it's all fallen on deaf ears. I know for a fact several individuals have
contacted their legislators about this to no avail.

Well, what about this part :

"Section 131AA. (a) Any person who files a petition for an extreme risk protection order, knowing the information in the petition to be materially false or with intent to harass the respondent, shall be punished by a fine of no more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for no more than 3 years in the house of corrections."

Did this exist prior to the law? What does this mean to you? The door was open, nobody walked-in.

Assuming that's real, It's 110% meaningless and will never be enforced. Someone will get charged with that right after they got charged with "filing a false police report", which is BASICALLY f***ING NEVER. Welcome to MA.

That does basically nothing to prevent someone from abusing the system. You still have to prove intent, good luck with that unless the abuser is dumb enough to run their mouth during the whole thing. There's lots of plausible
deniability built into the ERPO legislation.

Arguing that everything is "statistical noise" is fine when everyone agrees with your data and its sources. Are we 'there' yet? No? Then what happened to "A good defense is a strong offense"?

So we should pass laws that (are clearly designed to) f*** up civil rights based on a bunch of nippleheads braying and whining about something which is basically inconsequential? (and in many states, like MA, already addressed by MANY pounds of existing law. )

Cruz was practically carrying a sign over his head, begging to be declared a PP - and it didn't happen. Everyone knows that - except, of course, you. When police take thirty-nine bites of the apple, and utterly FAIL to disarm this nut, with the public having ZERO recourse for Broward County's finest-failure....well, what lie are we telling ourselves?

That's a moonbat county in florida, not massachusetts. A moonbat county that didn't like arresting school aged shitheads that were a problem, for not wanting to screw up their quota numbers. Not sure how some shitty sheriff's problem becomes our problem. Also the public has plenty of recourse- they can demand that sheriff resign and/or vote him out of office next time around. They should have all gone out and asked for his head on a pike, but instead they go out and sing "save the orphans" with him as he blamed everyone else for his
incompetence.

-Mike

 

[calsdad]

I'm not surprised. The moonbats know exactly what this is for, and expect them to use it liberally. We're all super f***ed when this passes.

Just remember one thing: A weapon is something that can be used to kill - or defend.

If there's something that I've seen over the years that seems to be consistent: It's that moonbats yell and scream about guns , but the reality is that a lot of them own them too. So - if they want to go and pass this bill - and a-holes like the guy fshalor mentioned want to start using it as a weapon to go around and harass gun owners who have done nothing........... then one of the things that we're going to have to come to grips with is the fact that left is using (they've been doing it for a LONG time actually) - the government and "the law" - to wage warfare against you.

There's a famous saying that goes something like: " You may not want war - but war wants you"

I think it was Churchill that said: " Democracy is the idea that the public knows what it wants and deserves to get it - fast and hard"

Sooner or later if the left wants to engage in lawfare - you're going to have to engage in it too.

If turds like the Cambridge guy fshalor mentioned start using the law to harass - give it right back to them. Past a certain point - that's all you can do. They made their choices - they cast their votes - now give them what they wanted - fast and hard.

 

[calsdad]

That's a moonbat county in florida, not massachusetts. A moonbat county that didn't like arresting school aged shitheads that were a problem, for not wanting to screw up their quota numbers. Not sure how some shitty sheriff's problem becomes our problem. Also the public has plenty of recourse- they can demand that sheriff resign and/or vote him out of office next time around. They should have all gone out and asked for his head on a pike, but instead they go out and sing "save the orphans" with him as he blamed everyone else for his
incompetence.

-Mike

You left out the most important part. Those "quota numbers" - were driven by Obama administration efforts to bury the fact that BLACK high school age kids were committing all sorts of crime - and the FBI crime stats - which is one thing they actually seem to be somewhat honest about - were calling out this fact.

So the only way around the bad numbers - which some people out there were actually paying attention to and calling out all the BLM and Obama administration bullshit artists with.......by pointing to those ACTUAL NUMBERS .............. was to not have stuff get reported in the first place.

And since it's now apparent that leftist moonbattery is infested thru all levels of government (FL sheriff involved in Parkland made this abundantly clear) - there were people more than willing to go along with all this crap so as not to call into question the true religion.

So what we've REALLY got here - is a typical case of where the lefties have screwed around with things, it's blown up in their faces (or to be more accurate - shot them in the face) - so now they're scrambling to apply more legislation ( more bad decisions) - on top of previous bad decisions and legislation.

You see this is why I said in my previous post: they're practicing warfare (lawfare) against you. Sooner or later people on the right and gun owners are going to have to come to grips with that fact and stop acting like a bunch of turds.

Look at what happened last year with Based Stickman and all the alt-righters and 4chan types going to war against the leftie crowd. They owned them lock stock and barrel. Once people started fighting back - it pretty quickly became clear that the Antifah types were a bunch of weenies in black , that lefties can't meme, and that once you start punching them in the face they start crying like babies looking for a safe space.

I used to think the way to fight this shit was to call your legislator and complain - and then go back home and get pissed off and complain on the internet about it after we lost.

Now I say "f*** it" - if they want to pass laws like this - let them go and do it. Then make them pay for it by using the law against THEM. Clog the damn 911 lines with reports of every leftie in town threatening their neighbors with guns . SWAT their stupid asses until they cry uncle.

This shit works both ways.

 

[free]

Now I say "f*** it" - if they want to pass laws like this - let them go and do it. Then make them pay for it by using the law against THEM. Clog the damn 911 lines with reports of every leftie in town threatening their neighbors with guns . SWAT their stupid asses until they cry uncle.

This shit works both ways.

Great, brave idea. Can we come over and use your house for the phone bank? Thanks

 

[calsdad]

Great, brave idea. Can we come over and use your house for the phone bank? Thanks

You don't have any liberal friends? Use their phone. Buy a burner. Read what I wrote.

Show me the part where appealing to liberal politicians is getting you anywhere, and I'll stop advocating for doing it the way I detailed.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Better yet - call it in on the lawmakers that vote for this garbage.

 

[calsdad]

Better yet - call it in on the lawmakers that vote for this garbage.

Exactly.

 

[Boston4567]

You don't have any liberal friends? Use their phone. Buy a burner. Read what I wrote.

Show me the part where appealing to liberal politicians is getting you anywhere, and I'll stop advocating for doing it the way I detailed.

We gained favorable changes to the 2014 law relative to the original proposal. Police have to sue you if they don't want to issue an FID for suitability, not the other way around. The real-time private transfer transaction portal was created instead of requiring an FFL transfer (and the associated fees and restrictions). We now have the ability to appeal LTC restrictions which we didn't have before.

The original 2017 bump stock ban proposal would have criminalized anything that makes a gun fire more quickly, and have EOPSS create regulations telling us how to maintain our firearms, if I recall correctly. We ended up with a ban narrowly targeted to bump stocks and trigger cranks.

There certainly are lots of liberals that are pompous, self-righteous, completely certain of their beliefs, and unreachable. f*** those people, don't associate with them. But there are also lots of smart, reasonable, good, persuadable people that are moonbat level liberals in large part because of the bubble they were raised in and live in.

If you really care about guns as an issue, look at those people and try to understand them, instead of assuming they're idiots and ascribing negative stereotypes to them. You won't turn them into conservatives, nor should you try. And you may not convince them to go out and buy some guns. But you can change their mind on gun control, so they're at least not calling their legislators and marching in the streets. You just have to understand how to persuade them. Start by educating them on the facts in a non-condescending way until they see the cracks in the antis arguments. Appeal to their values rather than yours.

This is how gun rights have gained ground over the last few decades. It's sure as shit not because more people are raised around guns these days, or because our message is simple and persuasive to communicate via mass-media.

My personal situation puts me in close proximity to lots of those types of liberals and I've had good luck persuading them on this stuff. If we each can do that with a few people a year in this godforsaken state, we can gain enough support to stop the wave of nonsensical laws

 

[Mike S]

Then you admit that a sound, reasonable case could have been made that the law is CRAP, and overlaps existing legal avenues and just makes a total mess of the situation at-hand. Why wasn't that case made to someone - anyone - ??? If the case doesn't get made in the first place, and we don't have a voice to make it publicly, then my point has been made.

Michael, a sound case was made during a long meeting with the House Speaker and his staff just last week by GOAL's Exec Director. He has been meeting with many legislative leaders, legislators and staffers for months about this bill, going back to BEFORE Parkland. I sniffed this out when it was first filed and tracked it back to the Bloomberg group that's supporting it, so it was on my radar long ago. Also, it should be noted that this bill was shelved in a committee before Parkland.

Don't assume that GOAL doesn't have a running dialogue with our legislators, stating they don't is simply not true.

I won't speak for GOAL but I would wager an excellent guess that all of the above has been mentioned to legislators several times since this percolated out, and it's all fallen on deaf ears. I know for a fact several individuals have
contacted their legislators about this to no avail.

I will and I can assure you that Mike would win that wager.

 

[bigred460]

Michael, a sound case was made during a long meeting with the House Speaker and his staff just last week by GOAL's Exec Director. He has been meeting with many legislative leaders, legislators and staffers for months about this bill, going back to BEFORE Parkland. I sniffed this out when it was first filed and tracked it back to the Bloomberg group that's supporting it, so it was on my radar long ago. Also, it should be noted that this bill was shelved in a committee before Parkland.

Don't assume that GOAL doesn't have a running dialogue with our legislators, stating they don't is simply not true.

Agree, IMO GOAL is active.
Over the past couple of years it seems every-time I've been at the statehouse I've run into Jim W., same goes for yesterday, he was coming out of an office as I was going in, didn't have time to chat with him yesterday though, in the past I've always enjoyed getting his perspective on the issues at hand.

 

[Al458]

Massachusetts House to take up ‘red flag’ gun bill

 

[Permanent Waves]

Talk to any Rep, particularly the R’s, they will tell you ERPO is already a done deal. There isn’t anything anyone can do that is going to change that. Reps that are actually listening to Wallace are an extreme minority. Even if some believe what he is saying, watch how many vote for the bill to save their ass during this election year.

The strategy going forward can only be about removing the career pols from of the statehouse. Until then, your personal choices will be - live with the piling on of legislative BS, or leave the state.

 

[Mike S]

From GOAL's Facebook page, looks like they are fast tracking this one.

GOAL has learned that the House Ways & Means Committee will, or already has voted on the cruel & unusual ERPO-"Red Flag" bill, H.3610.

A weekend vote is highly unusual and indicates that the legislature will be moving fast on this.

We will update with more info tomorrow, including who voted for the bill (if they publish the vote).

 

[Permanent Waves]

And there it is - a done deal. Let’s see if there will be a role call for the vote.
If it was done as a cowardly informal session, than forget it.

 

[wahsben]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6bzaXdKwaY
Go to 6:38 if you don't want to listen to the whole video.

 

[Roadglide]

I saw it deleted before I could screenshot it .a Moonie from a former job in the Cambridge area posted on FB suggesting that people begin to plan on using this EPRO system to replort anyone they hear or know who owns guns. "As in, this is the only way we can take back our children's right to live! Use this the second it passes!"

All it’s going to take is one bogus claim and Pandora’s box will be opened. The claimant gets scrutinized and has it turned around on them with a lawsuit. But I wouldn’t worry about idiots who try to report anyone and everyone. I don’t see the law being designed for that.

 

[Mike S]

The title of the bill was changed to "An Act Relative to Firearms" over the weekend. It was voted favorably 24-2 with 4 abstaining. Of course they kept the vote secret.

GOAL will have info out soon, we are going through the new language as I write this.

 

[Boston4567]

Bill H.4517

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/190/H4517.pdf

 

[Boston4567]

It's bad. Anyone can file a petition who has ever been married to the person, has ever dated or had a kid with the person, has ever lived with the person, or "is or was related by blood or marriage".

The last one is particularly alarming - the father of a wife you divorced a decade ago can just file one of these against you?

 

[Paul455]

Amazing how fast these traitors can move WHEN THEY WANT TO.

Mass. will become one of the first communist states in the USA soon.

And all the sheep will regret supporting these types of laws, as they will be targeted next.

Idiots.

 

[Permanent Waves]

And of course the court reviewing the petition are only under the burden of Preponderance of the Evidence, meaning that if there is a 50.01% chance that the petitioner is correct, the court must act. A better interpretation - no court in Mass will ever tell a petitoner No to a ERPO request.

Good luck out there folks.

 

[71montess]

Do we see any worthy law suits in Mass’ future ?