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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mike S, Apr 12, 2018.
So now what?
Reps obviously don’t care in this state. Of course, we’re all criminals anyways...
Not yet. It was reported out as favorable with changes. No idea what the changes are. It goes to House for the three readings, may briefly stop in Steering and Policy. It is possible to amend it but also possible that DeLeo will fast track it and turn it over to the senate within the week. Most of the committee members are DeLeo boot lickers so they do what he wants when he wants. Senate is even worse. Let's hope Jim W has some advice to offer.
Might as well start acting like one...that's the message I get from our legislature.
We are not doomed, this isn’t over and we aren’t criminals.
We are only doomed when we bend our knees and bow our heads. It’s over when they come for your property and you let them take it. If you follow the Constitution you are a Patriot, the crown will call you a criminal just like the folks in Boston Harbor, George Washington and down to the lowest greenest private in the Continental Army.
not going to bother calling, its gonna happen, mass is a swirling cesspool
Does anyone know if that claim by Decker is even true? Wouldn't MSP and the AG be more than happy to be investigating death threats from threepers if such threats were real?
Death Threats = Hurt Feelings
Remember Nancy Pelosi and the ‘threats’ she received walking to the hill to slam through 0bama-care? Just like those
"Speaker Robert DeLeo had a role in the committee leadership's decision to push for passage of the bill, according to the committee's House chairman."
'Red flag' gun bill clears legislative committee
How does GOAL let this happen? It seems they are better at running raffles than they are at being effective.
You see, goal let's it happen when they post a message on that North East Shooters Forum and Twitter giving everybody a heads up and call to action with all the relevant information to contact your reps about this issue. Then what they do is just hope people pick up their phones and reach out to reps as they continue to talk to people in the state house and hit the tweets about how potentially bad this bill can be.
So, why did it pass? For one thing, antis hit harder with emotional appeals than 2a people do, secondly morons that probinlh shouldn't have guns call up and make death threats, and third, reps are beholding to politics and need to prove they've done something. In this case the something is already in place, but it'll make people feel better if we just make a second law about it.
Hard to blame GOAL for this one. I didn't agree with their strategy of tying to stop passage of this bill by labeling it "cruel" and "dangerous". Not an effective approach. They would have been better off taking the RI approach of limiting the people authorized to submit ERPO petition to LEO's and mental health professionals. Too late now. Credit to Jim W. for hanging in there. MA statehouse not a receptive environment.
But basically the bill passed due to complete lack of interest from firearm owners. Review some of the recent NES threads and you can deterrmine what interests firearms owners:
Thread on which truck to buy, 98 replies, 933 views,
Thread on boycotting BOA, 83 replies, 1753 views,
Thread on AG v. Exxon, 32 views, 2852 views,
Thread on Syria, 107 replies, 1105 views,
Thread on ERPO, 39 replies, 1512 views
It's clear that NES members are more interested in Trumps Border Wall (71/974) and if grapes are toxic to dogs (64/989)
MVGC passed on the GOAL alert, Andover did not. Wonder which clubs followed Andover's apathetic response.
At this point I see no point in investing any more of my time on 2A issues with such a clear lack of support from NES members.
It's simply not a productive use of my time.
Anyone have more call volume data on this? I’m wondering what kind of numbers we had on our side, vs what’s needed to change a rep’s vote. Are we talking hundreds, or thousands of calls? What ratio would be considered overwhelming support? Like 3/4?
And, how many reps are there that care about calls received vs moonbat, impervious to feedback types?
Fudds don't give a shit unless they threaten to close down the bar at the club. Then it is game on.
I get the feeling like these red flag bills were the flavor of the month because all the usual suspects states passed them or were going to pass them no matter what. The agenda was going forward no matter who called or emailed or how many. Thing is, these bills, all of them, are unconstitutional violating due process and will be struck down when the first poor sap that gets hemmed up takes it to the highest court. You have to think it will.
I’m curious, what do you think GOAL is? GOAL isn’t a governmental entity. It has no power other than as a group of voters. The ONLY power GOAL has is as the representative of a block of votes. Right now GOAL has about 17,000 members. That’s shit. MA has 4,500,000 registered voters as of 2016. Look at those numbers. MA averages about 3 million voters turning out on average. 17k voters is shit. Especially when those 17k voters can’t be bothered to reach out to their reps to remind them that they exist. We are a minority here. The only way minorities are given a seat at the table is if they threaten to knock the motherf***ing table over (to paraphrase Malcom X). The ONLY wa for GOAL to be ‘more effective’ is to grow larger. The only currency Beacon Hill understands or cares about is votes. They have more than we do at this time. That means they win.
If you're a criminal you don't have to register your guns. The Supreme court ruled so: Haynes v. United States - Wikipedia
The ultimate Catch 22. If you don't register your guns, you are a criminal, but if you are a criminal, you don't have to register them.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Shitberg/MDA/etc. people put people up to doing this. They are so organized at this point (and they are introducing this ERPO bullshit all over the country, or trying to) that it would not surprise me that they have people pulling psyops like this to advance the bill.
Isn't Michael Moore a chairman of the Public Safety Committee? He is supposed to be on our side. He runs shoots at our club every year. Not sure whether to support him or not. He needs to stand up for us at the statehouse, where it counts. No?
You just tell them. You already treat me like I'm a criminal so I thought I was one.
"Let" it happen? Do you think that any RKBA group has a strong negotiating position in this state?
Do you think GOAL just picks up the phone and a few hundred thousand angry, pro RKBA voters will appear in the state ?
The way you phrase the question- its as if GOAL was responsible for babysitting a child and it ran outside and got hit by a car while chasing a
ball. If only the problem was that simplistic.
Being effective is even getting some contingent of gun owners to care. In this state thats even harder to come by (because most MA gun owners are downtrodden and conditioned to being shit on for the past 60+ years or whatever its been WRT complicated gun ownership in MA. ) Gotta have to get rid of that institutional sickness first, before anyone can be effective.
Not being lawyerly in any sense am I to understand that if I were to "manufacture" my own firearm in MA and not file an Efa-10 (register it), am I then not guilty of any crime (federal I assume) if I later am found in possession of it???
IANAL either so I can't answer the question in regards to what's likely to happen in this case. A person most likely already has to have a criminal record and be a prohibited person than they'd probably excuse you. If you've been law abiding all your life they'll most likely screw you. We can't have the peasants getting uppity now can we?
Wonder if my minor in possesion back in the 70's counts as a "criminal record?"...Did not seem to for my local CLEO nor the several other states I got a LTC from where I admitted it... Damn!!
1) They used to do EXACTLY THAT. I was there, manning phones.
2) Our club meeting tonight, some people got pretty loud about getting info out to members about things like the rally this past Saturday that hardly anyone knew about. We decided we will start getting more "activism" emails out to membership. I hope other clubs are doing the same.
GOAL has been warning gun owners about this legislation for months. During this same time the Moms, and now the #Enough crowd have been in the State House EVERY SINGLE DAY advocating for ERPO.
They are better organized, have more money, have more votes, and out work our side by a lot.
Until that changes, we lose. Until people begin caring enough about 2A rights to do something about it, or at least vote to protect them. We lose.
Sadly, I have a feeling that it will be too little, too late.
I would like to learn from our opponents. These people that are there every day - are they the same people all the time? Like is it just some retired people that have the time to do that? Or are they professionals that do this as their day job, and are paid for it somehow? Or is it different people all the time, that enough can take a day off now and then, but there's so many of them that there's a group every day?
Precisely. How are they more organized, and why are we not? Go look at the threads about Instagram, Twitter, social media, and look at the indifference.
MSC is trying, albeit maybe a bit late, to get more organized. I think that is the way to go. There is the MSC, then the child organizations (WCL, NCL, etc.), then the individual clubs, which all fall under that umbrella. Word needs to go out from the parent organization on down the line.
Our club is now getting more active internally or to itself, but we need to have a solid direction in which to head. In other words, if there was a good statement right now on what to do, that could be propagated out to 1000+ members instantly. Repeat, GOOD message. Not something from 2 weeks ago even though a vote was taken last Friday. Not something which will need an edit in 2 days. We need solid and consistent, and fully in agreement across the board.
For those crying this all costs money, then we need to bring in fundraising groups. This needs to be organized from bottom to top, from top to bottom. There needs to be a social media and publicity coordinator at GOAL (or whatever group chooses to do this), as well as a club coordinator, who offers assistance to clubs when they host various events, or their particular town is doing something evil that needs rebuttal.
Are you volunteering? You seem to have a lot of very strong opinions of exactly what and how GOAL should be operating. Why not step up?
Absolutely! I have done phone banks in the past, and do several classes every year. I'd gladly put on a class for GOAL members in Instagram and maybe Twitter. If someone else wants to do this, and put on some workshops, I'd love to help out. I've been to plenty of rallies and hearings at the statehouse, Hudson, Assumption College, and elsewhere. I've done workshops and trainings. Jon and Jim are well aware of all this. Is there something else? I'm all ears.
Separate names with a comma.