Selectmen order Granby Bow and Gun Club to shut down controversial half-mile-long

Dennis in MA

NES Member
Rating - 100%
24   0   0
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
16,230
Likes
7,624
Who needs that. There's a nice straight run of 495 between exits 8 and 9.

No, not really. But I think about it every time I drive by. Years ago I did a groundhog shoot out west. Trying to picture how long those shots were when I drive it. Clearly SE-MA is never gonna be confused with Montana, but it just FEELS the same when you have that much open terrain unencumbered with anything.
 

Mountain

NES Member
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
9,604
Likes
5,063
The screeching noise referred to in earlier complaints must be fly-overs from Westover Air Base. The touch-and-go training on some weekends can be pretty loud.

I doubt any windows were rattled, but if that did happen it would have had to have been 50 BMG, which has since been banned at the club because some numbnuts was damaging club plates. Bummer, but I understand the club's position.

The town not only issued a C&D for the long range, they also issued a C&D for the covered 350 yard range due to permitting issues. The 350 yard range is still open via positions outside of the covered building. I recently 'passed' the 1,000 yard orientation and hope that we soon have the long range reopened.

A reminder to fellow NESers:

Please think before you post in this thread. Comments detrimental to the club's position might get this thread deleted.
 

wahsben

NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
33   0   0
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
10,335
Likes
3,060
Location
Ma.
The screeching noise referred to in earlier complaints must be fly-overs from Westover Air Base. The touch-and-go training on some weekends can be pretty loud.

I doubt any windows were rattled, but if that did happen it would have had to have been 50 BMG, which has since been banned at the club because some numbnuts was damaging club plates. Bummer, but I understand the club's position.

The town not only issued a C&D for the long range, they also issued a C&D for the covered 350 yard range due to permitting issues. The 350 yard range is still open via positions outside of the covered building. I recently 'passed' the 1,000 yard orientation and hope that we soon have the long range reopened.

A reminder to fellow NESers:

Please think before you post in this thread. Comments detrimental to the club's position might get this thread deleted.
I was there recently and several times jets flew over the range. This harassment of clubs never seems to end.

Please see my last post in this thread for information about a new meeting.
 
Last edited:

JayMcB

NES Member
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
10,607
Likes
5,461
Location
Metro-Worst, assachusetts
I hate to be the dick here....but they changed the range, and there is zoning in the town....and they didn't get a permit for it. Did I miss something?

That said....The C&D for the EXISTING range is a total dick move by the shitheads on the zoning board. If they can do that, they can tell you the house you have in the town, since the 70's, is no longer compliant....and you have to move out. Not cool.
 

amm5061

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jun 20, 2016
Messages
6,457
Likes
4,069
Location
Holliston, MA
So, time for a machine gun shoot? Bring out the .300 mags to the 350 yard range?


That said....The C&D for the EXISTING range is a total dick move by the shitheads on the zoning board. If they can do that, they can tell you the house you have in the town, since the 70's, is no longer compliant....and you have to move out. Not cool.


You've never tried to pull a permit for a remodel, have you? Zoning boards are full of mini-Hitlers.
[rolleyes]
 
Last edited:

Mountain

NES Member
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
9,604
Likes
5,063
The covered 350 yard range has a new structure. It's really nice. The club existed before Granby had any zoning bylaws, but the newer structure needs an inspection per the town. Probably that issue can be resolved quickly and the 350 yard range is still open- just not from the building. 1000 yard range may be an extended battle.
 
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
9,628
Likes
2,498
Location
Toy Town
As I understand it, the pre-existing use of a property is what is grandfathered WRT to zoning usage laws/regulations, not just pre-existing facilities. Normal evolution and growth of the same usage over time is also grandfathered, but apparently the usage my not be grandfathered if the quantity or nature of the use increases significantly in a short period of time. I also gather what constitutes "significant" and "short time" is somewhat ambiguous, not clearly or consistently defined by current law or case law.

I suspect this is what Granby is using as justification. Clearly adding a range to an existing gun club is not a new use. Whether adding this particular range to this particular club constitutes a significant change in the "quantity" or "nature" of the use appears to be the point in question.

Also, these two lines in the article struck me as strange:
Two lawyers representing the gun club attended the meeting, but declined to comment.

Club president Andre Mercier attended the meeting. He also declined to comment.
The club is represented at the meeting, but the article makes it sound like the didn't, or weren't allowed to, make their case? [hmmm] ?
Hopefully this does not affect their chances at the next step, which I think should be going to the ZBA.
 
Last edited:

Rob Boudrie

NES Member
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
34,209
Likes
10,656
I was there recently and several times jets flew over the range. This harassment of clubs never seems to end.
Are jest buzzing the club to harass it [smile]
You've never tried to pull a permit for a remodel, have you? Zoning boards are full of mini-Hitlers.
They will invent problems or requirements just to demonstrate they have power.
 

mac1911

NES Member
Rating - 100%
65   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
26,839
Likes
4,102
The screeching noise referred to in earlier complaints must be fly-overs from Westover Air Base. The touch-and-go training on some weekends can be pretty loud.

I doubt any windows were rattled, but if that did happen it would have had to have been 50 BMG, which has since been banned at the club because some numbnuts was damaging club plates. Bummer, but I understand the club's position.

The town not only issued a C&D for the long range, they also issued a C&D for the covered 350 yard range due to permitting issues. The 350 yard range is still open via positions outside of the covered building. I recently 'passed' the 1,000 yard orientation and hope that we soon have the long range reopened.

A reminder to fellow NESers:

Please think before you post in this thread. Comments detrimental to the club's position might get this thread deleted.
The better watch out on the permit shit... thats was the nail in the coffin for scituate after they had some rounds leave the range. They didnt have permits for some buildings/structures along with a range not on the plans IIRC

Is there a a donation system intact for legal fees.
 
Rating - 100%
26   0   0
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
5,178
Likes
1,870
Location
Western MA
Seems they built the new range without the correct permits. Or without having any permits.

Not sure why the existing range was shut down tho...
 

radioman

NES Member
Rating - 96%
24   1   0
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
3,848
Likes
1,718
Location
N.C.MA, NRA Life Member
So, time for a machine gun shoot?
You've never tried to pull a permit for a remodel, have you? Zoning boards are full of mini-Hitlers. [/FONT][rolleyes]
Why should I have to pull permit for a remodel? This whole permitting system is nothing but a scam by the state to obtain more money out of its citizens. What I do with my home is my business no one else's. As long as I'm not starting a pig farm or a junkyard and directly affecting someone else's property values that's my business. I want to put an addition on my house, I put an addition on. I want to expand my driveway? I expand my driveway. If a gun club wants to put in a new range then they put in a new range. The gun club did nothing to expand its operations. It's always been a gun club it's continuing to be a gun club. Gun clubs are noisy. That was no secret when the people moved in. In my opinion the gun club would have had to expand its operations beyond firearms for the people to have a reason to complain. For example if the gun club added housing, for let's say a couple thousand illegal immigrants that would be a change of its tenet, therefore giveing the people a right to complain.

What happens if I move in next to an airport? When the airport wants to add an additional runway I somehow now have the right to complain that airports are noisy?

This is an attempt by an elite class of people, that think they're better than firearms owners, to rid their communities of gun folk.
 

1903Collector

NES Member
Rating - 100%
71   0   0
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
3,815
Likes
527
Location
Armpit region
Why should I have to pull permit for a remodel? This whole permitting system is nothing but a scam by the state to obtain more money out of its citizens.
If it was truly about safety, making sure framing and mechanical's are done properly it would be a flat fee and not based on the "value" of the job IMO. And there would be no bullshit permit fees for siding your house or changing windows...
 

amm5061

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jun 20, 2016
Messages
6,457
Likes
4,069
Location
Holliston, MA
If it was truly about safety, making sure framing and mechanical's are done properly it would be a flat fee and not based on the "value" of the job IMO. And there would be no bullshit permit fees for siding your house or changing windows...

If it was really about safety, the good liberals in this state would provide the service free, because think of the children!
 
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
6,334
Likes
1,112
Location
F.E.M.A. Region I
So, time for a machine gun shoot? Bring out the .300 mags to the 350 yard range?

You've never tried to pull a permit for a remodel, have you? Zoning boards are full of mini-Hitlers.
[rolleyes]
I never bother getting a permit, just remodel as I see fit, because 'Merica !
The town Nazis can go pound sand.

BTW, these C&D orders and closing of ranges needs to STOP.
 

wahsben

NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
33   0   0
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
10,335
Likes
3,060
Location
Ma.
The better watch out on the permit shit... thats was the nail in the coffin for scituate after they had some rounds leave the range. They didnt have permits for some buildings/structures along with a range not on the plans IIRC

Is there a a donation system intact for legal fees.
There is a page on their website
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
14,055
Likes
7,647
So, time for a machine gun shoot? Bring out the .300 mags to the 350 yard range?




You've never tried to pull a permit for a remodel, have you? Zoning boards are full of mini-Hitlers.
[rolleyes]
Thats why more of us need to bit the bullet and join them

Its amazing what a little bit of rational thought/well placed comments can do to avert planning/zoning boards from doing really dumb/irrational shit

If you cant join them then start showing up and making comments during public comment periods.....most of these folks will back down and behave like adults if they realize people are actually paying attention to what they are doing
 

Asaltweapon

NES Member
Rating - 100%
45   0   0
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
12,215
Likes
5,003
Location
Northern Mass
So, time for a machine gun shoot? Bring out the .300 mags to the 350 yard range?




Zoning boards are full of mini-Hitlers.
[rolleyes]

I've said it before. "Something had to happen to all the hallway monitors in grade school" and this is where you find them on the planning and zoning of appeals boards.
 

Mountain

NES Member
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
9,604
Likes
5,063
There are no structures associated with the 1000 yard range- just a little earthwork to get a road to the firing line area and a level area with gravel parking and a cement pad for the firing line. The range beyond 350 yards is pretty low impact other than clearing of trees. I can't for the life of me understand why a private property owner can't cut any/every damn tree he/she wants to cut. Seems that upset tree huggers are part of the mix.

I seriously doubt rounds are leaving the range. Regardless of the ability of the shooter, the long range firing line is elevated quite a bit. Besides the elevation, once you are at 600 yards distance or more, the projectiles are really beginning to come in at quite a downward angle.

Qualification is necessary to use the long range. 1 MOA or better rifles are required, quality optics, and match quality ammo that will remain supersonic at 1000. Even most .308 won't remain supersonic at 1000- so the equipment requirements alone weed out all but those who are seriously into it. Wrong equipment or ammo? You go home. You have to bring your DOPE, and if it's not correct you go home. You can miss the plate and still pass qualification, but you can't miss by much. Rounds must impact the berm, and at distance the berms are very small. Miss the berm during qual and you go home. Seemed to me that almost half of those who showed for orientation DQ'd- some before even taking a shot. Instructions are clear and are supposed to be read, understood, and signed before you show. The whole process is extremely well organized and run, with first shots at a manageable distance before one can tackle the longer distances.

The 350 yard range does have the covered roof structure. I don't agree with any permitting requirements for something as simple as that, as I can't understand ever needing a permit to have a shed in your yard. Again, it's the structure not the 350 range that is closed because the town gov thinks there is a permit issue.

Hopefully the nonsense regarding the 1000 yard range will be resolved. I'd bet money that the 350 yard range structure will be settled. Members can still shoot to 350 yards- and how many ranges beyond 200 are in our neck of the woods? Granby deserves our support now more than ever- not only via donations but via membership.
 
Last edited:

Dadstoys

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
13,513
Likes
7,774
Location
North Shore
As I understand it, the pre-existing use of a property is what is grandfathered WRT to zoning usage laws/regulations, not just pre-existing facilities. Normal evolution and growth of the same usage over time is also grandfathered, but apparently the usage my not be grandfathered if the quantity or nature of the use increases significantly in a short period of time. I also gather what constitutes "significant" and "short time" is somewhat ambiguous, not clearly or consistently defined by current law or case law.

I suspect this is what Granby is using as justification. Clearly adding a range to an existing gun club is not a new use. Whether adding this particular range to this particular club constitutes a significant change in the "quantity" or "nature" of the use appears to be the point in question.

Also, these two lines in the article struck me as strange:
The club is represented at the meeting, but the article makes it sound like the didn't, or weren't allowed to, make their case? [hmmm] ?
Hopefully this does not affect their chances at the next step, which I think should be going to the ZBA.
Been there and done that with Planning boards.
There's no point in saying anything , their mind is made up and they go home at night and fap themselves to sleep after exercising their Authorata .
Lawyer up and go in dry.
 
Top Bottom