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pepper spray
- Thread starter houdini
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Please learn the protocol here and do not Spam the forum with multiple threads with the same topic/question.
Thank you.
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You better read the Stickies in Gun Laws and become familiar with MGL to keep out of trouble.
MA requires an FID or LTC in order to buy/possess/carry any chemical sprays. They are listed as "ammunition" per MGLs. Possession of firearms, ammo, chemical sprays on ANY school property (public, private or college) is a crime in MA unless you have the proper permit AND PERMISSION from the head of the school. Only exception is LE.
Most schools will not give permission for chemical sprays.
ONLY MA Residents (people who graduated high school in MA for college students) qualify as "Residents" (see other long threads about this), can be issued FID cards. There is no such thing as a Non-Resident FID.
So, NRs are limited to applying for a NR LTC. Problem with that is you must be 21 or older to obtain a LTC, it requires a course (not required for restricted FIDs), and costs $100/year!
So even if you can get permission, unless they came from MA originally most college students are almost ready to graduate by the time they turn 21 and could obtain a NR LTC!
Thank you.
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You better read the Stickies in Gun Laws and become familiar with MGL to keep out of trouble.
MA requires an FID or LTC in order to buy/possess/carry any chemical sprays. They are listed as "ammunition" per MGLs. Possession of firearms, ammo, chemical sprays on ANY school property (public, private or college) is a crime in MA unless you have the proper permit AND PERMISSION from the head of the school. Only exception is LE.
Most schools will not give permission for chemical sprays.
ONLY MA Residents (people who graduated high school in MA for college students) qualify as "Residents" (see other long threads about this), can be issued FID cards. There is no such thing as a Non-Resident FID.
So, NRs are limited to applying for a NR LTC. Problem with that is you must be 21 or older to obtain a LTC, it requires a course (not required for restricted FIDs), and costs $100/year!
So even if you can get permission, unless they came from MA originally most college students are almost ready to graduate by the time they turn 21 and could obtain a NR LTC!
You sure about that? MGL does list pepper spray as "ammunition", but MGL doesn't seem to restrict (surprisingly) ammunition itself (or pepper spray) from school grounds.
(j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, “firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.
(j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, “firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.
Doubt me, try it! ![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
I worked for BC Police for ~8 years and got into a embroiled "discussion" with my Lt. about a Coed that came into the dorm with OC on her key-chain with her BC ID. That was a long time ago. He was furious with me since I "forgot" who she was or what room she was in, he wanted to charge her.
Also had a similar discussion with a current Lt. at BCPD who prosecutes such cases on a regular basis. It also went "heated" and that was only on Memorial Day. I no longer work there and this Lt. (different person than in prior paragraph - that guy went to Syracuse University IIRC to head up their EMS org) is a personal friend.
My personal opinion hasn't changed . . . all Coeds should be allowed to carry OC for personal protection (I'd like to see "regulation" dropped . . . needing NO permits or special permissions), as long as they act responsibly with it. If they mis-use it (assault someone that isn't a threat with it, spray into HVAC system, etc.) then they should be prosecuted. My Lt. friend totally disagrees.![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
And yes, he has been successful in convicting students for carrying OC on BC campus.
I worked for BC Police for ~8 years and got into a embroiled "discussion" with my Lt. about a Coed that came into the dorm with OC on her key-chain with her BC ID. That was a long time ago. He was furious with me since I "forgot" who she was or what room she was in, he wanted to charge her.
Also had a similar discussion with a current Lt. at BCPD who prosecutes such cases on a regular basis. It also went "heated" and that was only on Memorial Day. I no longer work there and this Lt. (different person than in prior paragraph - that guy went to Syracuse University IIRC to head up their EMS org) is a personal friend.
My personal opinion hasn't changed . . . all Coeds should be allowed to carry OC for personal protection (I'd like to see "regulation" dropped . . . needing NO permits or special permissions), as long as they act responsibly with it. If they mis-use it (assault someone that isn't a threat with it, spray into HVAC system, etc.) then they should be prosecuted. My Lt. friend totally disagrees.
And yes, he has been successful in convicting students for carrying OC on BC campus.
In fairness, LenS, there was the incident where BC Police Officer Thomas Devlin was maimed and crippled for life by someone setting off military grade tear gas inside Edmonds Hall (he recently died) so there might be some sort of stigma with that particular PD.
The rule against OC sprays is absurd. I have to think that so many assaults, rapes, etc could be prevented or stopped in their tracks.
The rule against OC sprays is absurd. I have to think that so many assaults, rapes, etc could be prevented or stopped in their tracks.
The incident that I had with my Lt. was back in the 1980s when I was working the dorms.
I was unaware of the incident you mentioned. Very sorry to hear that. I'm pretty sure that I knew Tom Devlin when I worked there, but the memory of names is pretty fuzzy so many years later.
Indeed that might be why the current Lt. I was talking to took such a hard-line stance this past Memorial Day (he literally started to turn red as we talked, and we're friends!). However, BCPD position on chemical sprays for students really hasn't changed since the early 1980s when I started working there.
The reason I worked there (along with ~20 others) was that there had been a rape in the dorms (stranger who wondered into the dorms, not a student) and the students demanded more security in the dorms. Thus, we were recruited to work there as Aux. POs Thursday thru Saturday evenings from 7PM to 3AM. I did this on Friday and Saturday nights after my regular work-week at DEC for a number of years.
I was unaware of the incident you mentioned. Very sorry to hear that. I'm pretty sure that I knew Tom Devlin when I worked there, but the memory of names is pretty fuzzy so many years later.
Indeed that might be why the current Lt. I was talking to took such a hard-line stance this past Memorial Day (he literally started to turn red as we talked, and we're friends!). However, BCPD position on chemical sprays for students really hasn't changed since the early 1980s when I started working there.
The reason I worked there (along with ~20 others) was that there had been a rape in the dorms (stranger who wondered into the dorms, not a student) and the students demanded more security in the dorms. Thus, we were recruited to work there as Aux. POs Thursday thru Saturday evenings from 7PM to 3AM. I did this on Friday and Saturday nights after my regular work-week at DEC for a number of years.
Many would rather deal with the OC charges versus getting raped or assaulted. I've heard far too many stories about girls being assaulted and guys getting stabbed by thugs who came onto campus to rob cars and people. The thugs know the students are unarmed. Until they totally prevent any and all crime from happening (obviously can't), I'm sure that "many" people will decide to carry and take their chances.
MANY students (at all colleges), especially those that came from other states, carry OC illegally in MA. They buy it at the local 7-11 in <any of ~4x states> and don't think twice about it.
MA is one of a handful of states that considers it ammo or a "dangerous weapon" on the face of it, licenses it and then makes it impossible for young women to possess it.
We're real good at giving Coeds whistles though!
And if the whistle doesn't work, we (gov't) tell them to submit "to prevent getting hurt"!!!!!!![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
MA is one of a handful of states that considers it ammo or a "dangerous weapon" on the face of it, licenses it and then makes it impossible for young women to possess it.
We're real good at giving Coeds whistles though!
And if the whistle doesn't work, we (gov't) tell them to submit "to prevent getting hurt"!!!!!!
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Has there been any court decision on this issue? A CWOF or guilty plea to a minor charge does not establish case law to the same extent that a judicial finding would. I know it makes little difference to the individual in a sticky situation, however, it would be interesting to know what exactly the disposition was on those convictions Len referred to. My guess is that it would be unlikely for a college student to take a case to trial when is it highly probably that the cost of a defense would greatly exceed that of the "deal" offered and they were probably CWOFs, pre-trial diversions, or no jail/minor fine pleas to minor charges.
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Rob, you are likely correct.
I do know that BCPD charges them with "or other dangerous weapon", contending that since OC is defined as "ammunition", it's use qualifies as "other dangerous weapon". According to my source, this argument has "flown" in the courts they have prosecuted in. [NOTE: BC is in Suffolk, Norfolk and Middlesex Counties, so they arrest and prosecute in all three District Courts.]
Also BC has a very strong internal disciplinary code. Likely they get expelled too. A penalty that will destroy a young life for certain!
Personally I have a real problem with this, unless someone maliciously uses a chemical spray, but that is how they play it out.
I do know that BCPD charges them with "or other dangerous weapon", contending that since OC is defined as "ammunition", it's use qualifies as "other dangerous weapon". According to my source, this argument has "flown" in the courts they have prosecuted in. [NOTE: BC is in Suffolk, Norfolk and Middlesex Counties, so they arrest and prosecute in all three District Courts.]
Also BC has a very strong internal disciplinary code. Likely they get expelled too. A penalty that will destroy a young life for certain!
Personally I have a real problem with this, unless someone maliciously uses a chemical spray, but that is how they play it out.
You could always circumvent this entire issue by carrying either dog, or bear repellent. It's the same as pepper spray, though in the state of MA, it is classified as pesticide, and you don't need a license to buy or possess it.
Mass-diver
NES Member
It's one of those stupid laws that is abided at the discretion of the citizen. It's illegal and is not condoned, but if someone values personal protection over legal issues, then it's their choice. I mean, for example, don't answer this but how many people here take showers before entering a public pool? It's the law, but is it entirely followed? I personally value my ability to defend myself if needed over breaking a law. I would break a law to save a life, and I'm sure many would too.
In the context of this thread, you have jurisdictions that are making up their own law. If you think just because it's supposed to be used differently and called something different than what the laws says, you'd be taking a big chance.
the whole OC/ pepper spray thing is a crock of sh** in MA. IMO.
i think any a-hole cop that thinks otherwise should be forced to walk the worst streets in boston with nothing more then a whistle. and a sign that says, "I am only carrying a Whistle, but that will keep me safe"
but then again, we live in a state where they would arrest and charge youfor defending yourself in your own home.
I bet if some of these morons where subject to an attack or home invasion... they would change their minds.
i think any a-hole cop that thinks otherwise should be forced to walk the worst streets in boston with nothing more then a whistle. and a sign that says, "I am only carrying a Whistle, but that will keep me safe"
but then again, we live in a state where they would arrest and charge youfor defending yourself in your own home.
I bet if some of these morons where subject to an attack or home invasion... they would change their minds.
Remember for the most part it is old, white men who make laws!!
They are so out of touch with reality that it is pathetic . . . but they give the marching orders (laws) to the rest of us!
They are so out of touch with reality that it is pathetic . . . but they give the marching orders (laws) to the rest of us!
sigh... I know...
I try my darnedest (is that a word?) to vote them oout everytime... but unfortunately... most of those doing the voting fall in that same demografic..
How is that men have allowed themselves to be PW'd like this?
Chris
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The 'men' didn't. The girlie-men, wimps, and those that prefer others take control of their lives unfortunately outnumber the 'men'.
(Sad thing is that I know several women who are far more of a 'man' than most of the biological 'men' that exist in this state.)
That's just the new, "reality based" version of, "all right-thinking self-anointed experts (such as myself) firmly believe that ..."
Ken
... thinks otherwise should be forced to walk the worst streets in boston with nothing more then a whistle. and a sign that says, "I am only carrying a Whistle, but that will keep me safe"
I'm with you. But remember there are no prohibitions on pocket knives...
LenS, have any of those prosecutions involved people who were carrying pepper spray on a college campus but actually had an FID/LTC card? I'm curious how much of a difference that makes. I previously had thought that pepper spray (with FID) on a college campus could at most only get you thrown off for trespassing (just like if you were in a store and had pepper spray against their wishes). So, it's an actual CRIME, not just a rule? Just try walking around Boston with pepper spray WITHOUT walking across a college campus... they are everywhere! e.g. BU is about 2 miles long along the Charles... no way to walk along the Charles then. MIT is huge and sprawls across the other side of the Charles. Northeastern huge too. etc.
J
Jose
Why would anyone attend ANY university in Massachussetts is beyond me.
Why not?
We do have some of the best colleges in the Country.
If you are in the hard sciences (I was a EE), there are no political agendas in your classes and you graduate with no idea about your professor's political leanings!
If you are in the hard sciences (I was a EE), there are no political agendas in your classes and you graduate with no idea about your professor's political leanings!
