P G Dowd, Northboro, Ma

[FalArAk]

I'd like to see Dowd and GOAL get a chance to comment on this. I guess that will have to wait for a weekday (business day).

As my good friend the Minister bodybagsryan pointed out to me yesterday,Dowd is a businessman and GOAL is a business of sorts.GOAL is probably not in the business of biting the hand that feeds them,and Dowd doesn't have to justify his business to anyone but the tax folks and ATF.

He still didn't change my mind..I think the state should provide a place to keep the guns until the owner is found guilty or not guilty.Downside of this is that IF someone is found guilty,the state would most likely end up destroying the guns.

I guess the bottom line is that it's a necessary evil.

I do wonder how other states like NH handle these things...

 

[Scrivener]

'Junk" or not; it's virtually free inventory.

Is there any other warehouse, including that large one just off the SE Expressway, that imposes an "all or nothing" requirement on bailments?

OR that requires you to wait days, if not weeks, to recover one's own property - while being charged for the delay?

 

[EddieCoyle]

'Junk" or not; it's virtually free inventory.

Is there any other warehouse, including that large one just off the SE Expressway, that imposes an "all or nothing" requirement on bailments?

An "inventory" of unsaleable junk is a liability, not an asset.

OR that requires you to wait days, if not weeks, to recover one's own property - while being charged for the delay?

I don't agree with this practice at all. I also think his storage fee is too high by about a factor of 2.

 

[MassMark]

PG Dowd is an opportunist. Last time I checked, there was nothing illegal about being an opportunist, but that still does not make it right. There should absolutely be provisions in state law that ensure the recovery of firearms by their rightful owners at zero cost - zero. These are more than just firearms - it's personal property. In many cases, some could be family heirlooms - in others, expensive custom built firearms. Imagine this hypothetical: Very low income, wrongly accused, massive legal fees, inability to pay the fees to recover your weapons - a collection of guns handed down by your grandfather. You'd have to be hit with a dumbstick to think that these are not the types of people PG Dowd rubs his hands together for...We're also not talking about German 88 flak guns either - storage space in evidence rooms, (either state or local), should be sufficient. If not, then they can be turned over to an FFL, or a Dowd-type for minimal cost to be paid by the state, should the accused be found innocent, or a fee to be paid by the defendant, should the accused be found guilty and wants to recover his firearms for sale or transfer. Their should also be provisions set to allow defendants to use their firearms as collateral or be sold to cover legal expenses. PG Dowd should be in business to sell: firearms from gun buybacks, guns seized in crime/raids, (only after a legitimate attempt to reunite the firearm with its original owner if it was stolen). I personally don't care if the 209A is absolutely legitimate - the owner of the firearms should have rights to the disposition of his personal property....

 

[Coyote33]

...Is there any other warehouse, including that large one just off the SE Expressway, ...

... that requires you to wait days, if not weeks, to recover one's own property - while being charged for the delay?

What prevents them from doing this with impounded cars? Can't the same mechanism be put into place here?

 

[Len-2A Training]

'Junk" or not; it's virtually free inventory.

Is there any other warehouse, including that large one just off the SE Expressway, that imposes an "all or nothing" requirement on bailments?

Until a recent change in the MGLs wrt evictions, this was allowed and standard practice if one was evicted and property went to bonded warehouse storage . . . for the precise reason EC stated below.

An "inventory" of unsaleable junk is a liability, not an asset.

I don't agree with this practice at all. I also think his storage fee is too high by about a factor of 2.

Bonded warehouse storage fees wrt evictions are dictated by MGLs and terms of the license to do that specific work. Should be the same here, but isn't and not likely to change. [I fully agree with you about the fees and testified to that. The threat by the bonded warehouses to get out of the business if the fees were regulated obviously held more weight than "reasonableness". My suspicious side tells me that there is also an "unstated goal" to make it such that the rightful owners NEVER are able to get their stuff out of hock, and thus the current system serves the desires of those in gov't who make such laws/regs/policies.]

- storage space in evidence rooms, (either state or local), should be sufficient. If not, then they can be turned over to an FFL, or a Dowd-type for minimal cost to be paid by the state, should the accused be found innocent, or a fee to be paid by the defendant, should the accused be found guilty and wants to recover his firearms for sale or transfer.

I personally don't care if the 209A is absolutely legitimate - the owner of the firearms should have rights to the disposition of his personal property....

You can't mandate "adequate evidence room space". Most PDs have nothing more than a small closet-sized area and storage there is abominable. You can turn a $5K gun into a $300 piece of junk in a mere few months due to rust, dings, etc. A good friend (former gun club president, president of a county pistol league, etc.) went thru a civilian police academy and told me of seeing beer cans sitting on top of rifles in a local PD evidence room. I'm sure that Peter Dowd takes better care of the guns than that by 1000-fold.

The state will NEVER pay the fees to store civilian guns, they'd be more likely to pass a law/reg to immediately send them for destruction!

It's my understanding (from local FFLs who have had customers' guns confiscated by 209A and other reasons) that when they get the right to their guns back, that the mags, ammo, accessories are regularly NOT RETURNED. [Disclaimer: This is third hand info from FFLs who I trust to tell me the truth about what was told to them. So take it for what it's worth.]

I agree that persons who lose their guns/rights should still be able to convert them to cash, but I just don't see that happening in MA and those folks don't evoke a lot of sympathy from legistraitors or regulators.

 

[JoeT]

I have a family member that was a "victim" of this storage practice.

My brother went through a very ugly divorce a couple years ago (financially and mentally, I don't think he has recovered yet). His wife filed a restraining order (and other things) and Waltham police recovered all weapons at the home (which he no longer had access to anyways). He's not a "gun guy" and just had some hunting guns, and his "lifetime" FID had expired. He reapplied for a LTC, but was denied (due to the restraining order).

By the time it I was aware and went to pick them up, the storage fees and other misc fees were more than the guns were worth. I'm sure someone made a profit off my SIL's douchbaggeragy

 

[Scrivener]

An "inventory" of unsaleable junk is a liability, not an asset.

I would suggest that a functioning firearm already in MA is a marketable commodity. Heck, do the old Ernie Boch trick of using them as loss-leaders to attract buyers.

Worst-case scenario: Have a LOT of fun at the next Worcester "buy-back."

 

[MassMark]

I have a family member that was a "victim" of this storage practice.

My brother went through a very ugly divorce a couple years ago (financially and mentally, I don't think he has recovered yet). His wife filed a restraining order (and other things) and Waltham police recovered all weapons at the home (which he no longer had access to anyways). He's not a "gun guy" and just had some hunting guns, and his "lifetime" FID had expired. He reapplied for a LTC, but was denied (due to the restraining order).

By the time it I was aware and went to pick them up, the storage fees and other misc fees were more than the guns were worth. I'm sure someone made a profit off my SIL's douchbaggeragy

While I don't have a personal story to share, I did have a mental health client who when after he had is psychiatric break, an extensive firearms collection including, but not limited to, M1 Carbines, Garands, 1903's, several vintage Smith and Wesson handguns and family heirlooms were removed from his home. I got his case a couple of years afterwards, but on a whim, I decided to check with PPD to see what their status was: "long gone", was the reply. I asked my client if he wanted to press the issue - he did not, (afraid of the police)....Not sure if there was an issue even to be pressed and he would not consult an attorney....

 

[Scrivener]

I'm sure his invertebracy made certain people very happy. And, quite possible, wealthy as well.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

GOAL is probably not in the business of biting the hand that feeds them

It has been said that a capitalist will sell you the rope you use to hang him.

This situation, and my request, is a test of character and principles for GOAL. Let's give it a bit of time to see how they do.

 

[MassMark]

I'm sure his invertebracy made certain people very happy. And, quite possible, wealthy as well.

You're not kidding...If I see him again, I'll ask to see his pics. I wonder how many of them Dowd drooled over? One was a 1911 his father carried in WWII - another an 1891 Colt, (I think 41?) that his grandfather carried while on his sales routes in the southwest...

 

[Scrivener]

One was a 1911 his father carried in WWII - another an 1891 Colt, (I think 41?) that his grandfather carried while on his sales routes in the southwest...

And yet, he did nothing to retain or recover these family relics....

 

[MassMark]

And yet, he did nothing to retain or recover these family relics....

Yeah...schizophrenia is a bitch...His psychiatric break happened fairly quickly and he was swallowed up into a system designed to fail. He relayed to me that he expressed concern to his DMH case manager about his guns, but was told he no longer had a right to have them and he left it at that until I came along...It was actually finding my NES badge on the floor of my car that sparked our conversation about guns. I wish the timing had been better and I got his case soon after his break, rather than nearly 2-years later....

 

[wolf223]

And yet, he did nothing to retain or recover these family relics....

i actually agree this on a pre-liminary basis.

i am NOT convinced that Mr Dowd is picking up firearms as soon as the accused are "accused" of _______, arrested, booked, released and court dates are pending.

 

[JGreen]

It has been said that a capitalist will sell you the rope you use to hang him.

This situation, and my request, is a test of character and principles for GOAL. Let's give it a bit of time to see how they do.

Personally speaking........I hope GOAL tells you to sh*t in your hat.

 

[FalArAk]

Personally speaking........I hope GOAL tells you to sh*t in your hat.

I guess the problem would be that some of us wouldn't be surprised one bit.

But,since the people who wouldn't be surprised are in the minority,GOAL can just ignore them and hope they get drowned out by the cheerleaders.

 

[buffermop]

Getting back to the issue, I sold Mr Dowd a collection of guns. I feel I got screwed, blued and tattooed in the deal. Guns were worth more than i got, even wholesale. Live and learn I guess.

 

[theGringo]

Getting back to the issue, I sold Mr Dowd a collection of guns. I feel I got screwed, blued and tattooed in the deal. Guns were worth more than i got, even wholesale. Live and learn I guess.

I also shopped a collection to Mr. Dowd, for a friend. Years ago. He came to my house. I got a real bad read on him. Can't nail it down ... but I felt he was playing me like a fiddle. I took 'em all to ... The Gun Room, and we looked 'em all up in the big book. I got a better deal there, and feel like they were being up front about the value of the guns vs. what they'd be willing to pay.

 

[Scrivener]

i am NOT convinced that Mr Dowd is picking up firearms as soon as the accused are "accused" of _______, arrested, booked, released and court dates are pending.

Then I AM convinced that you have not seen his ad in the monthly MCOPA mag, the flier he sends to each PD or had a PD have him come get the guns as soon as it is notified of the statutorily-guaranteed transfer.

Which is to say, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Personally speaking........I hope GOAL tells you to sh*t in your hat.

The eloquence and intellectual sophistication you bring to the discussion as a GOAL official is most impressive and is a true credit to your organization.

 

[terraformer]

Then I AM convinced that you have not seen his ad in the monthly MCOPA mag, the flier he sends to each PD or had a PD have him come get the guns as soon as it is notified of the statutorily-guaranteed transfer.

Which is to say, you don't know what you are talking about.

Anyone have a copy of that flier or ad they can post?

 

[wolf223]

Then I AM convinced that you have not seen his ad in the monthly MCOPA mag, the flier he sends to each PD or had a PD have him come get the guns as soon as it is notified of the statutorily-guaranteed transfer.

Which is to say, you don't know what you are talking about.

care to elaborate then? because INAL, never dealt nor heard of this "fire arms" impound lot.

i do know a couple folks who had their guns held at the PD until they got their issues cleared up in MA. so i'm still curious. but i'll take your word for it

 

[Rob Boudrie]

care to elaborate then? because INAL, never dealt nor heard of this "fire arms" impound lot.

MGL allows a "bonded warehouse" to take possession of confiscated guns not used as evidence in a pending criminal case. The business practices and fees of said bonded warehouses are unregulated and, in the opinion of some, abusive of the person's whose guns have been confiscated.

 

[richc]

The eloquence and intellectual sophisitication you bring to the discussion as a GOAL official is most impressive and is a true credit to your organization.

Really should think about using a spell checker... misspellings are not terribly eloquent either...

 

[wolf223]

MGL allows a "bonded warehouse" to take possession of confiscated guns not used as evidence in a pending criminal case. The business practices and fees of said bonded warehouses are unregulated and, in the opinion of some, abusive of the person's whose guns have been confiscated.

i need stats. lots of tin foil in this thread. so if joe the mechanic gets a wreckless driving ticket, his chief decide's he's "unsuitable" - ticket is still pending a court date.... dowd picks up the firearms the same day? day after? week after? year after?

or does the PD actually hold the firearms until the AFTER court date? if found NOT guilty of the ticket; joe the mechanic gets his LTC and guns back from his chief or does he get screwed????

stats... if so, how many, how often?

also, joe the mechanic has family member w / LTC's - he can "at any time" transfer them to a FFL or person w / FID or LTC. so unless joe the mechanic is a hermit, i'd think he (she) has options... no?

 

[EddieCoyle]

Getting back to the issue, I sold Mr Dowd a collection of guns. I feel I got screwed, blued and tattooed in the deal. Guns were worth more than i got, even wholesale. Live and learn I guess.

Why did you sell them to him?

 

[EddieCoyle]

i need stats. lots of tin foil in this thread. so if joe the mechanic gets a wreckless driving ticket, his chief decide's he's "unsuitable" - ticket is still pending a court date.... dowd picks up the firearms the same day? day after? week after? year after?

or does the PD actually hold the firearms until the AFTER court date? if found NOT guilty of the ticket; joe the mechanic gets his LTC and guns back from his chief or does he get screwed????

stats... if so, how many, how often?

also, joe the mechanic has family member w / LTC's - he can "at any time" transfer them to a FFL or person w / FID or LTC. so unless joe the mechanic is a hermit, i'd think he (she) has options... no?

The problem is, it's up to the PD. Some will hold them for a while, others will transfer them as quickly as possible. There are no rules on this.

Joe The Mechanic does have options. He can transfer them to anybody (friend, relative, another dealer, etc) as soon as he comes up with Dowd's money. If Dowd's got ten of his guns for four days, he can spend $45+10X4X$.50+10x$20 (or $265) and get them out. If he waits, he's got to keep paying the vig.

 

[terraformer]

If Dowd's got ten of his guns for four days, he can spend $45+10X4X$.50+10x$20 (or $265) and get them out. If he waits, he's got to keep paying the vig.

I read that differently. I read his price list as (10*$45)+(10*(4*$.50))+10*$20 = $670.

 

[FalArAk]

also, joe the mechanic has family member w / LTC's - he can "at any time" transfer them to a FFL or person w / FID or LTC. so unless joe the mechanic is a hermit, i'd think he (she) has options... no?

I'll give you an example Chet..

An FFL friend of mine has a friend who got busted for DD (I think+ some other things) No assault of anything,but something that could be beaten in court.Hhe has an extensive collection(NM M1's,M1A's,M1D's..about 15 pages of stuff listed) I read the list and got sexually excited,seriously,it was that good..at LEAST $60K of collector type rifles.The M1D that I seen,in that shape was worth at least $4K alone..

This FFL had to go rescue them from this guys wife's house(she didn't have an LTC) before they went to this bonded warehouse.I think there were somewhere around 50 guns,and at $80 a pop before storage fees(which at 50 guns is $25.00 a day),you are looking at a nice chunk of cash,which of course his wife or himself couldn't afford to bail out when the time came..So he "rescued" the guns before Dowd could get them.

*Some of the details of this story may not be 100% correct in regards to the amount of guns(it was a lot,it might have been more than 50) The crime that this guy was accused of I remember as being able to be beat in court,and any other state the rifles wouldn't have been taken in the first place,it wasn't any felony charges,the chief just revoked his license.

Joe The Mechanic does have options. He can transfer them to anybody (friend, relative, another dealer, etc) as soon as he comes up with Dowd's money. If Dowd's got ten of his guns for four days, he can spend $45+10X4X$.50+10x$20 (or $265) and get them out. If he waits, he's got to keep paying the vig.

I think the storage fees are due every month,otherwise he sells the guns,correct ?

I read that differently. I read his price list as (10*$45)+(10*(4*$.50))+10*$20 = $670.

I'm pretty sure it is $80 a gun for admin fees,then $.50 a day,per gun storage.i can't tell whether that 445 fee is per incident,or per gun...but it doesn't really matter when he can charge whatever the hell he deems appropriate.

* 50¢ per item - per day.
* Storage fees are payable, in full, every 30 days.
* Handling fee $15 per item for pickup, electronic processing, and packaging.
* Disposition fee - $20 per item handling and processing fee.
* Administration fee - $45 covers the cost of certified mail, bookkeeping, and other administrative costs.
* Firearms may be sold at auction to satisfy unpaid administrative, storage and disposition fees after proper notice to the gun owner (per Mass. General Laws).

Payments

All storage, disposition and administrative fees must be paid in full before firearms will be released. Inventory must be transferred in its entirety. No partial releases.