Open carry in Massachusetts, is it Legal?

[Rob Boudrie]

We should use common sense and make wide decisions while armed.

As well as narrow decisions.

Under Simkin v. Commonwealth, the SJC said it is not the fault of the gun carrier if someone get scared/upset when he does something he is licensed to do.

BUT.... I would not trust the lower courts to follow this logic, nor would I trust the SJC to apply it in a case with different circumstances than Simkin's.

[I'm not convinced that all chiefs will abide by Simkin either!]

I am not convinced that all judges will either.

 

[Broc]

Look professional and no one will even notice. They will feel safe around you.

 

[Quiet]

As well as narrow decisions.

Under Simkin v. Commonwealth, the SJC said it is not the fault of the gun carrier if someone get scared/upset when he does something he is licensed to do.

BUT.... I would not trust the lower courts to follow this logic, nor would I trust the SJC to apply it in a case with different circumstances than Simkin's.



I am not convinced that all judges will either.

The circumstances of Simkin were essentially this: He was going about his business. He wasn't flaunting or attempting to provoke or protesting or making a political statement. He was just trying to go about his business (which required him to disrobe (it was at a medical office) and he informed people that he was securing his weapons in a locked case).

So I take Simkin as: If someone happens to catch a glimpse of my gun that I carry loosely concealed, I'm not responsible for their reaction. I do not take it to be particularly on point about open carry or protests and the rest.

 

[mibro]

Look professional and no one will even notice. They will feel safe around you.

This. We're all conditioned to respond in predictable ways to visual stimuli. If you feel compelled to OC, wear something that looks uniform-ish or letter agency-ish (dark suit and tie). Wear a dark blue or black polo shirt with the word STAFF in big white letters, black pants and boots and duty belt, maybe a tailored windbreaker. You will be mostly invisible. This occurred to me when I saw a uniformed security guard fueling his car at a gas station with a holstered semi-auto. No-one really noticed as he looked police-ish.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Look professional and no one will even notice. They will feel safe around you.

Like this..

 

[M1911]

The circumstances of Simkin were essentially this: He was going about his business. He wasn't flaunting or attempting to provoke or protesting or making a political statement. He was just trying to go about his business (which required him to disrobe (it was at a medical office) and he informed people that he was securing his weapons in a locked case).

Like these "professionals"?

 

[FormerlyIndifferent]

Like these "professionals"?

I have always loved seeing the red and green Tabasco sauces, on the right!

 

[jkfrank]

Sneaky Pete holster, OC in mass, or cocealed?

 

[FrugalFannie]

If OC became "acceptable" in MA, how many would actually do it? I think there would be a very small percentage, and theyd OC just because they can and want everyone to know it.

only a small percentage in NH do it but every where I have been its not been an issue.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Sneaky Pete holster, OC in mass, or cocealed?

Can't see it...Concealed. IMO

 

[spcantwell]

I never understood the hate for open carry of handguns. If it's so stupid and instantly deadly I wonder how any police survive the first day on the job... hell if it's that bad I don't understand why they even wear uniforms... according to everyone on here every single criminal is planning on walking up to an armed man and killing him just because he's armed. Sounds kind of like everyone agrees with the jbt claims that they are "in a war zone every day"...

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[M1911]

I never understood the hate for open carry of handguns. If it's so stupid and instantly deadly I wonder how any police survive the first day on the job... hell if it's that bad I don't understand why they even wear uniforms... according to everyone on here every single criminal is planning on walking up to an armed man and killing him just because he's armed. Sounds kind of like everyone agrees with the jbt claims that they are "in a war zone every day"...

Police generally have some training in handgun retention -- maybe not great training and it might have been a while ago, but they've had some. They also typically have a level 2 or 3 retention holster. And while they may not be terribly skilled marksmen, chances are they wrestle with resisting suspects on a fairly frequent basis. And they have a radio, with which they can call the rest of their gang.

Most people who open carry have none of those advantages.

 

[40 caliber]

only a small percentage in NH do it but every where I have been its not been an issue.

I have seen it both ways in NH. I have seen people stopped for it because someone was alarmed and called it in. I have seen a guy OC at the bank in the Amherst Walmart and no one barely noticed.


When I grew up in Charlton MA and got my LTC, I asked the chief of police about open carry.

 

[GPP]

I have seen it both ways in NH. I have seen people stopped for it because someone was alarmed and called it in. I have seen a guy OC at the bank in the Amherst Walmart and no one barely noticed.


When I grew up in Charlton MA and got my LTC, I asked the chief of police about open carry.

And............

 

[Chevy 2 65]

I have seen it both ways in NH. I have seen people stopped for it because someone was alarmed and called it in. I have seen a guy OC at the bank in the Amherst Walmart and no one barely noticed.


When I grew up in Charlton MA and got my LTC, I asked the chief of police about open carry.

need more info. what the chief say?

 

[drgrant]

I never understood the hate for open carry of handguns. If it's so stupid and instantly deadly I wonder how any police survive the first day on the job... hell if it's that bad I don't understand why they even wear uniforms... according to everyone on here every single criminal is planning on walking up to an armed man and killing him just because he's armed. Sounds kind of like everyone agrees with the jbt claims that they are "in a war zone every day"...

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

I don't hate it but I don't do it 95% of the time because I like the fact that nobody knows I'm armed. If some ****nugget causes problems where im at I want the ability to opt out, and not have a bunch of sheep begging to "do something" because I have a gun.

Do you know any pro RKBA cops? How many of them OC while off duty? I bet the number is close to zero. One of the ones I know will do it when he's going to/from the range or while hiking, but that's about it.

 

[drgrant]

Sneaky Pete holster, OC in mass, or cocealed?

A close friend of mine uses his in Boston all the time... and hes never been outed. Its like 99.9% concealed... anyone who isnt familiar with it wont think twice about it.

 

[Pvt. Cowboy]

No matter how many times I see that picture of those two knuckleheads, I laugh at them every time.

 

[M1911]

No matter how many times I see that picture of those two knuckleheads, I laugh at them every time.

They make me angry, rather than laugh.

 

[Bonesinium]

I use a piece of paracord, tie one end to a belt loop, and the other end to the trigger guard. Best retention method. I use clove hitches to make sure it is super secure.

And to clarify, no, I don't mean in addition to a holster. That is my whole carry method.

 

[matt9112]

"Open Carry" is normally a term used in States where it is legal to carry a firearm w/o an LTC as long as it is carried in plain
view and not concealed under ones clothing. In Massachusetts there is no law against open carry but one must still be properly
licensed to carry the firearm. Open display of ones firearm can bring you a lot of problems with the Chief of Police who
issued the LTC if they receive complaints or 911 calls about an armed person. Massachusetts is not the State to open carry
in if one values their LTC. We should use common sense and make wide decisions while armed.

Or not be sheep ?

 

[richc]

Today I took a Utah class at Mass Firearms in Holliston. Good class and a great instructor who is also a full time LE.

He said today that open carry is legal. He said that some new law or case law came down recently that was distributed to LE saying not to arrest for open carry.

Yeah, I know that last people to trust with legal advice is someone in a gun store, an instructor or police.

But... I'm curious if any LE on this forum have heard of this? If so, could you please expand on what recommendations you were given in regards to open carry, and what law/case law changed?

Thanks,

Rich

 

[drgrant]

Today I took a Utah class at Mass Firearms in Holliston. Good class and a great instructor who is also a full time LE.

He said today that open carry is legal. He said that some new law or case law came down recently that was distributed to LE saying not to arrest for open carry.

Yeah, I know that last people to trust with legal advice is someone in a gun store, an instructor or police.

But... I'm curious if any LE on this forum have heard of this? If so, could you please expand on what recommendations you were given in regards to open carry, and what law/case law changed?

Thanks,

Rich

It would be curious to see if anyone has seen any bulletins, etc, about this. Or there has been any scuttlebutt on any of those secret invite only LE mailing lists, etc. Of course the danger is not so much the LE that are keyed into these things, it's the few mall commando types with badges that hate gun owners. For example, that guy that detained the lawyer in Springfield for OC pretty much two stepped around anything that could have gotten him in hot water yet still made the OCers life a living hell... stole his gun, stole his LTC and I think he took them to court over it and got everything back... but in all of this, the guy was not arrested, but I believe he got tossed into a back of a cruiser while mall cop threw a temper tantrum and was trying to figure out how to string him up, but couldn't. On paper it is definitely NOT arrestable, but there are all kinds of things they can do to screw with you.

-Mike

 

[DarthRevan]

We should use common sense and make wide decisions while armed.

There's nothing I despise more than an argument about "common sense" as a means to push an idea.

 

[7.62x39]

And there it is. Two days into the new year and already we have our first dumb ass OC thread of 2015.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

He said today that open carry is legal. He said that some new law or case law came down recently that was distributed to LE saying not to arrest for open carry.

I suspect he was referring Simkin v. Commonwealth SJC-11295, in which the MA SJC held that:

However, Simkin is not responsible for alarm caused to others by his mere carrying of concealed weapons pursuant to a license permitting him to do exactly that.

 

[GPP]

Today I took a Utah class at Mass Firearms in Holliston. Good class and a great instructor who is also a full time LE.

He said today that open carry is legal. He said that some new law or case law came down recently that was distributed to LE saying not to arrest for open carry.

Yeah, I know that last people to trust with legal advice is someone in a gun store, an instructor or police.

But... I'm curious if any LE on this forum have heard of this? If so, could you please expand on what recommendations you were given in regards to open carry, and what law/case law changed?

Thanks,

Rich

Hes correct, im sure I have it somewhere, ill dig up my inservice crap. Rob may be citing the correct case tho

 

[Ringworm]

Legal? Yes.

Remember that your license is at the discretion of your police chief and he can revoke it at any time.

Love the idea that my rights are at the discretion of some yahoo.

 

[richc]

Hes correct, im sure I have it somewhere, ill dig up my inservice crap. Rob may be citing the correct case tho

Thank you, sir! That would be incredibly helpful.

Best,

Rich

p.s. GO BUCKEYES!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Hes correct, im sure I have it somewhere, ill dig up my inservice crap. Rob may be citing the correct case tho

Another case that tangentially touches on the subject is Commonwealth v. Couture, where the court held that the mere observation that someone is carrying a gun, absent some other indicator of criminal activity, does not give police reason to believe that a crime is being committed or to stop/detain/search such a person.

This case is, for all practical purposes, ignored in the field, but it may provide the basis for a defense in some very limited circumstances. I remember the Boston PD stating that they were not changing any practices as a result of the decision.