Open Carry Day

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kalash said:
1) Why does your plan restrict me to my town and doesn't allow me to leave?
2) My LTC isn't even from my town - it's from Boston. I guess a day in Boston isn't as boring as a day around town though.
3) I've never heard of a "protection and concealment" restriction so no, they couldn't have put that on an LTC.
4) I was just in NH the other day and didn't open carry. Why? Because I think it's a stupid idea and no one needs to know that I'm carrying.
5) This is MA. My neighbors are pretty much guaranteed to be moonbats. I don't need them knowing that the evil man next door has scary guns and probably voted for Trump.
6) If this was an OC event where we all gathered and hung out and garnered media attention, I'd go.
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1. Go wherever the hell you want. That was merely a suggestion so people might feel more comfortable doing it if in the jurisdiction that issued them the license.
2. Good for you for having your LTC from Boston. You do underatand that 0% of anything I wrote was with the intent to revolve around your specific situation right?
3. "Protection and Concealment is in fact a real restriction that exists. I have had it on an LTC. Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it isn't real.
4. I hope you enjoyed the trip to NH. If you don't want to open carry, don't open carry. None of this is a requirement.
5. You may want to get to know your neighbors. I'm not saying be best friends with them, but talk to them a little bit (find out if they are moonbats) and have people to keep an eye on your stuff when you go away on vacation. Neighbors who pay attention are one of the most common ways police get alerted to B&Es.
6. This isn't any specific type of event. It might never be. However if there is enough interest maybe it will become an event. Could be similar to I described, could be an OC NES event. Right now it is nothing. If you think it could be beneficial maybe drop the negative attitude, realize it doesn't revolve around you, and come up with some good ideas.
 
5811 said:
2. Good for you for having your LTC from Boston. You do underatand that 0% of anything I wrote was with the intent to revolve around your specific situation right?
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You missed the point. Your idea that the town you live in issued your license doesn't apply to anyone that moved to a different town, which isn't just me alone.


5811 said:
3. "Protection and Concealment is in fact a real restriction that exists. I have had it on an LTC. Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it isn't real.
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Do you have anything at all to back that up? Someone send referring to it would suffice. My guess is that you had a different restriction and just remember the wording wrong.


5811 said:
4. I hope you enjoyed the trip to NH. If you don't want to open carry, don't open carry. None of this is a requirement.
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Once again missing the point. There are a lot of reason why people wouldn't want to open carry around town as some kind of protest or statement so participation would be dismal. . That's why I suggested an organized event at one location.


5811 said:
5. You may want to get to know your neighbors. I'm not saying be best friends with them, but talk to them a little bit (find out if they are moonbats) and have people to keep an eye on your stuff when you go away on vacation. Neighbors who pay attention are one of the most common ways police get alerted to B&Es.
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I know my neighbors. We just don't discuss politics. One of them did get wide-eyed once when I was loading ammo cans into the car but didn't say anything.


5811 said:
6. This isn't any specific type of event. It might never be. However if there is enough interest maybe it will become an event. Could be similar to I described, could be an OC NES event. Right now it is nothing. If you think it could be beneficial maybe drop the negative attitude, realize it doesn't revolve around you, and come up with some good ideas.
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I did - an organized event, rather than a couple of yahoos here and there OC-ing around town, which would likely result in more negative press than positive.
 
Dumb idea. This is MA we are talking about. People aren't going to get used to the idea of open carry. Instead, it will generate a bunch of bad press and people will be shocked to learn that open carry is legal in MA.

If there is enough press, the legislature will decide to make open carry illegal. Don't believe me? In CA it used to be legal to open carry an unloaded gun. Moron open-carry activists started doing just that, and before long the CA legislature made it illegal.


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for all the times this open carry bullshit comes up i still don't see what it's suppose to accomplish. the media will have a field day with it and i don't see it being good. to me, walking around like wyatt earp for a day just gives 'em another reason to chip away at the 2nd.
 
Maybe holding signs that simply state "I am a lawful, appropriately licensed and Massachusetts vetted, gun owner. I am your neighbor" or other very innocuous "I'm just like you" type of signs. NO "Healey Harbor" signs or anything like that.
 
What's the upside here?


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Probably not very productive...Think there are other ways to show solidarity. Every Friday on the state house step perhaps? Hammering away at our state legislature, continue financial support of GOAL and Comm 2A. Opinion's may vary.

- - - Updated - - -

jasons said:
What's the upside here?


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Nothing really.....
 
jasons said:
What's the upside here?


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"I think if the PDs are notified prior to the day and are aware people will be legally carrying in accordance with MGL it could turn out to be a good thing." There is zero upside to this.
 
M1911 said:
Dumb idea. This is MA we are talking about. People aren't going to get used to the idea of open carry. Instead, it will generate a bunch of bad press and people will be shocked to learn that open carry is legal in MA.

If there is enough press, the legislature will decide to make open carry illegal. Don't believe me? In CA it used to be legal to open carry an unloaded gun. Moron open-carry activists started doing just that, and before long the CA legislature made it illegal.


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So open carry is legal, and no one ever does it. But if we did open carry, they would make it illegal, which would result in people not open carrying. I fail to see what that would change.

There are some good ideas here from some posters. The 7/20 idea is a good one.

Kalash, I would not be opposed to a one location event. My apologies for forgetting you posted that earlier.

Some of us out here in Western MA can't make it out to the state house every week. Maybe we can put something together for Springfield as well.

If we could at least do something on 7/20 I'd be all in on that, whether it is open carry or not.
 
This is what open carrying of unloaded guns in CA caused:

California became the fifth state to prohibit openly carrying handguns in public after Gov. Jerry Brown announced Monday that he had signed the ban into law late Sunday night amid heavy opposition from gun enthusiasts.

AB144 by state Assemblyman Anthony Portantino, D-Pasadena, makes it a misdemeanor to carry an exposed and unloaded gun in public or in vehicles, with violators facing up to a year in prison or a potential fine of $1,000 when the law takes effect on Jan 1.
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full text here: http://www.theblaze.com/news/2011/10/10/california-bans-open-carry-of-handguns/

The voters and legislators in MA are very similar in their anti-gun attitudes to CA voters and legislators. Nothing good will happen in MA from publicizing the fact that open carry is legal. It won't desensitize voters about people carrying guns. Instead, seeing citizens openly carrying guns in MA is far more likely to energize Sarah Soccermom to lobby Beacon Hill to ban open carry.

Please let this sleeping dog lie.
 
5811 said:
So open carry is legal, and no one ever does it. But if we did open carry, they would make it illegal, which would result in people not open carrying. I fail to see what that would change.

There are some good ideas here from some posters. The 7/20 idea is a good one.
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Now, people occasionally open carry, typically in more rural areas. There would be no legal penalty to them if someone got upset about it.

If it becomes illegal, then that would no longer be possible.

Please stop this now. This won't have the effect you want and could result in seriously bad consequences for all of us.
 
Well at least you said please. Look man, I'm not making a huge push to do this or anything. I made the post to see what, if any, effects people thought it would have. Clearly we know where you stand, and that's perfectly fine. I never expected everyone to think it would be beneficial. Like I said, I'm not here trying to go full R tard.

I do find it interesting that you already know the outcome of something that, at this point, is basically just a topic of discussion. You don't know what outcome something would have. You maybe could make an educated guess, or have an opinion on what might be the outcome, but none of us here know what would happen in this hypothetical situation.

To add, I did not consider the fact that some people in rural areas do open carry. They are kind of out of sight out of mind for me, but you are right, it could have a negative effect on those people.
 
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M1911 said:
This is what open carrying of unloaded guns in CA caused:



full text here: http://www.theblaze.com/news/2011/10/10/california-bans-open-carry-of-handguns/

The voters and legislators in MA are very similar in their anti-gun attitudes to CA voters and legislators. Nothing good will happen in MA from publicizing the fact that open carry is legal. It won't desensitize voters about people carrying guns. Instead, seeing citizens openly carrying guns in MA is far more likely to energize Sarah Soccermom to lobby Beacon Hill to ban open carry.

Please let this sleeping dog lie.
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Unfortunately, I think this correct.
 
Billsail said:
Over-under on post# before...?
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The one from 2 days ago got up to 69 before Mike closed it... If only there was a way to search... [rolleyes]

Here is KnuckleDragger's post.. It lost it's formatting because I can't do a direct quote from a closed thread. https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/329784-Open-Carry-in-MA/page7

Jesus, I hate these threads. There's seems to be some equilibrium in this thread between good information and fear mongering, so I'll throw in my two cents and maybe it can get locked. We'll leave aside the question of whether open carry is a good idea in terms of practicality, and focus instead on the issue of whether it's legal and whether you can suffer any adverse consequences for open carrying a handgun.

Quote Originally Posted by jtnf View Post
You may not be charged with causing panic, but panic may ensue and you may lose your permission slip based on the all-powerful Suitability clause.

Quote Originally Posted by richmartin19 View Post
I wouldn't risk the brandishing a firearm charge. Its the equivalent to open carrying an AR15 in other states lol.

Quote Originally Posted by ProGun View Post
Not illegal, but not a prudent thing to do in MA if you value your LTC.

Quote Originally Posted by Sparky123 View Post
Who would open carry in Massachusetts ? You would have to be insane to do something like that. And I don't care what the law says, open carry and you can kiss your LTC good-bye.

Regardless of what decision one makes about this topic, one should know that law and understand what their rights are.
Open carry IS legal. Hard Stop.
per Simkin open carry is not a legitimate suitability disqualifier. 1) You're doing exactly what your license entitles you to do:
we suspect that the average Massachusetts resident may become "alarmed" on learning that someone other than a law enforcement officer is carrying concealed weapons in his or her presence. However, Simkin is not responsible for alarm caused to others by his mere carrying of concealed weapons pursuant to a license permitting him to do exactly that.
2) A licensing authority's ability to make suitability judgements is not without limits:
"This is particularly the case where the Executive Office of Public Safety and Security or its designee has not promulgated any regulations governing suitability, and therefore has provided applicants and license holders with little guidance on what it means to be a "suitable person.""
'Brandishing' is not a criminal offense and the mere act of carrying a firearm is not 'brandishing' (whatever 'brandishing' is)
The police CAN demand to see your license if they see you carrying a firearm or suspect that you are. At that point absent any other reasonable suspicion, the inquiry should be over.
The only way you're going to lose your LTC for open-carrying (and I don't mean ass-hole open carry) is if you fail to assert your rights.



Quote Originally Posted by rcwhat View Post
I wouldn't risk it just because of ill-trained cops with twitchy finger bangers.

I'm pretty satisfied that the issue of open carry is adequately covered in the recurrent training that Massachusetts police officers should be receiving. Whether they actually receive that training or whether it sticks may be another issue.



Quote Originally Posted by Len-2A Training View Post
Mike,

It was Joe Landers, in Dedham. He lived there, was carrying pizzas from the store across from the PD (both are in Dedham Square) when his jacket blew open and officer queried him about the gun. Officer wrote a report of the encounter (no arrest, all legal) and the Dedham chief (Joe lived in the same town) pulled his LTC. It took many years (Atty Langer assisted and sued the town, court ruled for the town) and a new chief before Joe got his LTC back (restricted). Joe came on here and posted about the experience and then disappeared.

Here are two links to the story from our archives (Google is your friend):

https://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...php/t-299.html
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...p/t-10681.html

So open carry at your peril if you wish. Times were that nobody would blink, but in today's society inside Rte. 128, I'd bet on revocation of LTC for this is the norm.
I know Joe as well. His problem was a long time ago, before Simkin, etc. His experience should NOT be used as the template for what would happen today. A police chief simply cannot sustain a suitability renovation based upon someone (including a police officer) seeing that you're carrying a gun and getting upset.

Quote Originally Posted by banditone View Post
What's the concensus on printing?

Quote Originally Posted by M1911 View Post
I try not too, but the reality is that most people are oblivious and won't notice.

Quote Originally Posted by drgrant View Post
Most gun carriers overthink this.

Unless your print is a full on square-ish outline of a gun most people will never notice it.

-Mike
I live in a pretty hard core moon-bat part of Boston. I've open carried, but not on the street here. However, I don't make a huge effort to conceal my firearm. I print like a 3D printer. Holster peeking out under the t-shirt or a big bulge is not uncommon. No one notices (other than the barbers) or no one says anything.
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/thread
 
5811 said:
Well at least you said please. Look man, I'm not making a huge push to do this or anything. I made the post to see what, if any, effects people thought it would have. Clearly we know where you stand, and that's perfectly fine. I never expected everyone to think it would be beneficial. Like I said, I'm not here trying to go full R tard.

I do find it interesting that you already know the outcome of something that, at this point, is basically just a topic of discussion. You don't know what outcome something would have. You maybe could make an educated guess, or have an opinion on what might be the outcome, but none of us here know what would happen in this hypothetical situation.

To add, I did not consider the fact that some people in rural areas do open carry. They are kind of out of sight out of mind for me, but you are right, it could have a negative effect on those people.
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Every year, year and a half someone posts this same trope about having an OC rally in MA.

I can't think of any way this would go well. Best case you find a town that is sympathetic and the PD lets you do it without causing an issue. Great... now you're in some town in the middle of nowhere and if we're lucky a camera shows up for 10 minutes and maybe a couple newspaper reporters and it ends up being a sidebar in a paper, buried somewhere. Maybe. Maybe its positive to some people, but the masses will ignore it.

Worst case, lets say you go into a moonbat town/big dump city (AKA someplace that it would actually get noticed) and do this unannounced (because the town would never give you permission for it) and next thing you know moonbats are floating around going GUH BUH WUH!!!! PEOPLE HAVE GUNSSSSSZZZ WAAAAAAH" etc. Then some piece of garbage legislation gets filed that amends MGL to prohibit open carry of handguns for anyone but LE and security etc. This BS *might* pass because it costs nothing. POW. Now anyone whose jacket blows open can get arrested, etc. That helped, a lot. Instead of the current situation where someone just gets mild or no harassment.

This state is wired for sound with moonbats at this point. It just elected Lieawatha. Process that for a few minutes, and then think of an OC rally vs that political reality. The result is not good. The only way we seem to win even small things in this state is through use of the judicial system (eg, Comm2A acting in various ways at state and federal court levels) stealth or through legitimate whining at the entry point of the legislative process. Things which go beyond this wake up sheep too much and bad things often get ruminated about. This isn't like marajuana or a referendum to roll back taxes at the liquor store, things which you can get the half moonbats to sign onto. If this state wasn't so rigged and gerrymandered at various levels I might feel differently about this kind of thing. But it's not . It's a dumpster fire that is trying its hardest to become as shitty as states like NY, NJ, CT, and CA are.

-Mike
 
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Open carry day? Should we wear all white, or a red hat, or something? Just want to do the politically correct thang
 
I would go along with this. But I do have to agree with the posters that said Beacon Hill will make OC illegal in this state if the press and TV get a hold of it. My guess is it would give MH and the anti's another club to bash us with. But the good news is that all this will end along with this state after the next civil war.
 
5811, I'd like to get my two cents in.

NES is an online forum and to me there is an evolution of the thought pattern. You can go back over some old threads to see to what extent you may agree or disagree with me.

After 7/20/2016 there was a groundswell of defiance related to the AG's reinterpretation. I went to the Goal rally in Boston and I said "I'm surprised we're not burning the AG in effigy." The answer was "This is a Goal rally and they won't support or encourage what could be illegal activity."

There were signs at the rally, "Healey For Harbor" and "Heil Healey." At first these signs were cheered but as time went on they were criticized.

The initial anger of having our rights violated and the reactions to it changed from suggestions to post a picket outside of Healey's home to letting Goal and Comm2A handle this through legislation and/or through the courts. In addition to this the consensus became to be careful not to do anything rash and possibly jeopardize anything Goal and Comm2A might be up to. I personally heard, "Did you check with Comm2A before you did this?"

The point is that people initially want to do all sorts of civil disobedient things as an immediate reaction to the taking of their rights but later they calm down and let the professionals handle it.

In the event a politician is tarred and feathered and run out on a rail it will come as a spontaneous reaction, not discussed in committee. And NES is like a committee.

BTW, I get that OC is legal in MA, it's just that the committee seems to be saying it's civil disobedience.
 
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Jason Flare said:
5811, I'd like to get my two cents in.

NES is an online forum and to me there is an evolution of the thought pattern. You can go back over some old threads to see to what extent you may agree or disagree with me.

After 7/20/2016 there was a groundswell of defiance related to the AG's reinterpretation. I went to the Goal rally in Boston and I said "I'm surprised we're not burning the AG in effigy." The answer was "This is a Goal rally and they won't support or encourage what could be illegal activity."

There were signs at the rally, "Healey For Harbor" and "Heil Healey." At first these signs were cheered but as time went on they were criticized.

The initial anger of having our rights violated and the reactions to it changed from suggestions to post a picket outside of Healey's home to letting Goal and Comm2A handle this through legislation and/or through the courts. In addition to this the consensus became to be careful not to do anything rash and possibly jeopardize anything Goal and Comm2A might be up to. I personally heard, "Did you check with Comm2A before you did this?"

The point is that people initially want to do all sorts of civil disobedient things as an immediate reaction to the taking of their rights but later they calm down and let the professionals handle it.

In the event a politician is tarred and feathered and run out on a rail it will come as a spontaneous reaction, not discussed in committee. And NES is like a committee.

BTW, I get that OC is legal in MA, it's just that the committee seems to be saying it's civil disobedience.
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Well said.....
 
There was a point in the long litigation history over several cases where I thought we might be going in a direction where a well-planned open carry event might be useful in helping to knock down the Commonwealth's license shell game arguments. But that time has passed and there's no longer any value to be had by trying to make this statement.

If an individual feels comfortable open carrying, by all means do it. But don't think for a minute that doing it for the sole purpose of making a statement and asserting a right is going to be productive.
 
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