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OBSOLETE GUNS ( IF THERE IS SUCH A THOUGHT )
- Thread starter BONESTOCK
- Start date
The point is that's lost on my mega autism associates here on NES is that there are clear and obvious choices to use instead of the M1911.
I never said the AK was obsolete, but since you're a ginger I expect what's being given to me here.
I think you mean "accept," not "expect," but whatever. 8th grade English, yadda yadda.
I brought up the AK because it was lumped in with the 1911 during this most recent kerfuffle. Honestly, if the criterion is killing people cheaply and efficiently, then almost every pistol is obsolete, and the 1911 always was. There have always been cheaper options, and any rifle is a more efficient option.
fencer
NES Member
That was sarcasm
Marty McFly
NES Member
@Picton is about to get Boston crabsever get jack knifed power bombed by a guy who can't speak 8th grade english?![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
there are what I like to call "orphan calibers" , stuff that is just too hard to get to stay proficient with
.380 has been hard to get over the last couple of years, .357Sig is a great round, it didn't catch on and it is not easy to find
how about 45 G.A.P. ?
25ACP.... I don't even know the last time I saw one for sale.... which might be a good thing.... my buddy still has my Raven .25 I got circa 1980 and he can keep it.... I gave it away for a reason
.32 got pushed out of the market by .38 Spl....
.38 got pushed out by the adoption of 9mm by cops
I don't think .38 ammo is going to dry up in my lifetime but you never know
As for guns? Sure it is hard to justify a G26 in a world where the 43X can be had, especially with Shield Arms 15 round magazines
But the 26 filled a need for many years, it is still a good gun, it has just fallen down my list a little
Someone mentioned the SigP225, which is pretty much the same gun as a P6.... those are really nice small 9mm Semi's, if you ever see one for sale grab it you won't be disappointed
As long as there is a demand for a caliber or cartridge someone will make it.
.380 has been hard to get over the last couple of years, .357Sig is a great round, it didn't catch on and it is not easy to find
how about 45 G.A.P. ?
25ACP.... I don't even know the last time I saw one for sale.... which might be a good thing.... my buddy still has my Raven .25 I got circa 1980 and he can keep it.... I gave it away for a reason
.32 got pushed out of the market by .38 Spl....
.38 got pushed out by the adoption of 9mm by cops
I don't think .38 ammo is going to dry up in my lifetime but you never know
As for guns? Sure it is hard to justify a G26 in a world where the 43X can be had, especially with Shield Arms 15 round magazines
But the 26 filled a need for many years, it is still a good gun, it has just fallen down my list a little
Someone mentioned the SigP225, which is pretty much the same gun as a P6.... those are really nice small 9mm Semi's, if you ever see one for sale grab it you won't be disappointed
As long as there is a demand for a caliber or cartridge someone will make it.
Marty McFly
NES Member
Remember a couple years ago when ammo dried up and there was a ton of 45gap in the classifieds because nobody read beyond 45.
You can make a very good case for .45 GAP and .357 SIG being obsolete calibers. I get that they have their partisans, but 99.9% of the gun-buying public wants nothing to do with them.
Marty McFly
NES Member
True but I do agree with @appraiser 357sig is a good round
Fun fact. In college my buddy sold lots of pot. Someone scheduled a 2lb deal and then ghosted. That night someone broke into the apartment and woke him up holding a gun to him in one hand a leather man with a little tiny knife in the other. My genius friend decides to call the bluff, fights with the guy and wins. I get the call after the fact, and my buddy is clueless what to do with the piece. It’s a .25acp and to this day I strongly regret what comes next. We put it in a tube sock, and I told him to drive me to the mass ave bridge. I should have just kept the thing but I didn’t have an LTC at the time. The fun part is the part where I lean out the window of his car to throw it into the Charles, while he’s driving. But instead of a clean toss, I manage to ding a light post. No kidding I actually hit a light post and this sock filled with a small pistol clickity clacks onto the sidewalk. I had him let me out right when he got to a side road /sprinted back and chucked it into the Charles. To this day I can’t hear about a .25acp and not think of this story. Sadly it’s all true, but alas, you live and you learn.
Quite_Exasperated
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I wanna party with you cowboy!
Marty McFly
NES Member
Sss? Oh! Super secret santa
puška m70
NES Member
All jokes aside, the AK-47/AKM is arguably "the best battle implement ever devised" (More so than the Garand) due to it's excellence in all things required of an effective infantry carbine. Simple manual of arms, reliability, durability, service live, ease of maintenance, ease of manufacturing, all-around intermediate caliber, etc.... as well as filling the role of a SMG, replacing the PPSH.
People like to knock the typical 3-6 MOA that comes with the caliber, barrel harmonics, sighting system, etc, but remember the philosophy of use... it's a long service life, highly reliable bullet hose to be used by conscipts from Soviet republics.. not a precision rifle. Plus the front sight post is like 9MOA at 100 yards.
People like to knock the typical 3-6 MOA that comes with the caliber, barrel harmonics, sighting system, etc, but remember the philosophy of use... it's a long service life, highly reliable bullet hose to be used by conscipts from Soviet republics.. not a precision rifle. Plus the front sight post is like 9MOA at 100 yards.
puška m70
NES Member
And VZ's are awesome, still too much fancy Czech engineering to go wrong IMO when I could go for an AKM instead. 5.45 is amazing but kind of did a big fart in the US due to the Byzantine import laws and political situations between Russia and USA.
I think I'm not the first to mention this, but an "obsolete calibers" thread might be better than an "obsolete guns" thread.
Love me a VZ58. And it's a great example that proves my point: the gun's still around because it's in 7.62x39 ( and because for years it skirted Canadian import laws). But its predecessor, the Vz52, is obsolete because it's in 7.62x45. Not because it's a bad rifle; they're not all that different, in many ways. But the 52 is a dead end. It was the Czech SKS, and the SKS sure ain't obsolete.
puška m70
NES Member
100%... just look around at all these countries still using 7.62x39. Most besides Russia, Armenia, Ukraine and Belarus did not adopt/stick with 5.45 post Soviet collapse. Because it's kind of a ComBloc 5.56.. but 7.62x39 AKs are still in wide military use across the world, current production, etc albeit being older. Russia is even going back to 7.62x39 somewhat with the introduction of the AK-103. They say it's better at barrier penetration.
Look at non NATO countries, esp those in the harshest enviromental conditions with constant armed conflict.. some 50-60 YO Type 3s being used everyday. You really don't see that with any other modern service firearms. Take a look at these various groups in Africa (we'll probably see some examples in the recently inflamed Rwandan rebel/DRC conflict) or Afghanistan.. some OG T56s from when US taxpayers funded the Taliban.. probably smoothbore at this point but still going.
Older design? Maybe. Obsolete, no! This big boy Mak 90 prob has some miles on it.
babygorilla
NES Member
26 is still my daily carry. Reliable, holds enough ammo, smallish, and the Blocks fit my mitts well so I shoot them acceptable.
I COULD carry my 19, or 17, but don't due to the size and weight, and since most of my mags are 10 rounder MA legal, it makes more sense to carry the 26. I'd hate to be involved in a shooting incident and lose one of my prebans to a shady cop.
I just can't justify trading up to the 365 or Hellcat for what little I gain.
I get that you are in MA so a 43X is not a realistic price purchase, but the 43X made a lot of 26's safe queens
The size difference between a 19 26 and 43X is negligible, I get the weight makes the difference
IMHO where the 43X beats the 26 is on the grip size...
But back to gone but not forgotten....
I was thinking about .25ACP, when I first got into carrying a gun, and this would be 40 years ago it seemed everyone had a little cheap .25, cops used to carry them as a second gun according to urban legend, you could slide one in your pocket and nobody would know you were carrying, and before AOW became a big thing there were people making holsters for them that resembled wallets... finger hole to get to the trigger ... probably only good for one shot, but to paraphrase Massad Ayoob from his book "In The Gravest Extreme" 'a 25 is a nice thing to have when you don't have a gun'.
I always had my little Raven 25 on me even when I was carrying a model 60, 13, or my Glock 19. That little 25 gave me comfort all those nights out on Blue Hill Ave....
Some people opted for a Jennings ... same sh*tty pot metal gun but in .22LR
You know what else went the way of the Dodo bird?
Derringers..... they were not good for anything except for getting off a belly shot at close range, but my Dad had a whole box of them I only saw once when I was probably 9 years old.... I never did find them or found out what he did with them....
guns come, guns go, but the 1911 is forever
The size difference between a 19 26 and 43X is negligible, I get the weight makes the difference
IMHO where the 43X beats the 26 is on the grip size...
But back to gone but not forgotten....
I was thinking about .25ACP, when I first got into carrying a gun, and this would be 40 years ago it seemed everyone had a little cheap .25, cops used to carry them as a second gun according to urban legend, you could slide one in your pocket and nobody would know you were carrying, and before AOW became a big thing there were people making holsters for them that resembled wallets... finger hole to get to the trigger ... probably only good for one shot, but to paraphrase Massad Ayoob from his book "In The Gravest Extreme" 'a 25 is a nice thing to have when you don't have a gun'.
I always had my little Raven 25 on me even when I was carrying a model 60, 13, or my Glock 19. That little 25 gave me comfort all those nights out on Blue Hill Ave....
Some people opted for a Jennings ... same sh*tty pot metal gun but in .22LR
You know what else went the way of the Dodo bird?
Derringers..... they were not good for anything except for getting off a belly shot at close range, but my Dad had a whole box of them I only saw once when I was probably 9 years old.... I never did find them or found out what he did with them....
guns come, guns go, but the 1911 is forever
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