NRA News Conference at 11:00 AM Fri. (TODAY) Will broadcast on NRA website.

[[cerberus]]

Go clean your .22

I just want to say, I like me some .22 with some 50 round mags.

 

[Boghog1]

I wonder what the reaction here and in Congress from the Republicans would be if our African-American president had proposed placing armed guards in every elementary school in the US at a now estimated cost of $14 billion per year with no plan on how to pay for the program. Flip.

Go listen and read the NRA announcement, trust me I am one of the biggest anti NRA person on this board but they did not say they needed to be paid only they said a trained armed good guy, that could be anyone from LEOs to a parent volunteer and they would provide training

 

[SigNation]

Go listen and read the NRA announcement, trust me I am one of the biggest anti NRA person on this board but they did not say they needed to be paid only they said a trained armed good guy, that could be anyone from LEOs to a parent volunteer and they would provide training

Try reading my post for comprehension. Firstly, I never mentioned the NRA proposal. Take it for what it is. How do you think congressional Republicans would respond? Secondly, the NRA proposal is quite half-baked. Yes they talked about "trained" civilian volunteers going in to the schools. That's simply retarded. Your opinion may differ. Given the extensive training SWAT team members receive to deal with active shooter situations, placing a civilian, or even an typically trained LEO, in a school shooter situation is a prescription for the civilian's death early in the confrontation and no real protection for the innocents at risk.

 

[SigNation]

because his rank is so low it has no effect on you, kind of funny if you ask me, he is so but hurt because we won't play his game

Don't flatter yourselves by thinking that reputation points matter to anyone but yourselves. But it does give a certain level of satisfaction on an annoyance level, doesn't it?

 

[Mass-diver]

Try reading my post for comprehension. Firstly, I never mentioned the NRA proposal. Take it for what it is. How do you think congressional Republicans would respond? Secondly, the NRA proposal is quite half-baked. Yes they talked about "trained" civilian volunteers going in to the schools. That's simply retarded. Your opinion may differ. Given the extensive training SWAT team members receive to deal with active shooter situations, placing a civilian, or even an typically trained LEO, in a school shooter situation is a prescription for the civilian's death early in the confrontation and no real protection for the innocents at risk.

Ya it takes years and years of training to deal with a 15yo with a rifle. In CT, the shooter killed himself as soon as the police showed up. In columbine, armed security saved many lives and would have saved more had SWAT entered the school immediatly upon arrival.

But you're right it takes a SEAL to stop some coward DB kid with his mom's rifle. Guess you haven't heard but, regular " untrained" civilians use firearms to confront the most evil and violent memebers society on a daily basis.

 

[SigNation]

Ya it takes years and years of training to deal with a 15yo with a rifle. In CT, the shooter killed himself as soon as the police showed up. In columbine, armed security saved many lives and would have saved more had SWAT entered the school immediatly upon arrival.

But you're right it takes a SEAL to stop some coward DB kid with his mom's rifle. Guess you haven't heard but, regular " untrained" civilians use firearms to confront the most evil and violent memebers society on a daily basis.

No, it doesn't a SEAL to deal with an active shooter, but to think a "trained" civilian is going to be of real help is fantasy at best, delusion at worst. So tell us, are you willing to guarantee that all,, or most, active shooters are going to/kill themselves when confronted. Or will those who don't simply surrender. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts, Rambo. I look forward to seeing you resolve all manner of active shooter situations down the road.

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[Boghog1]

No, it doesn't a SEAL to deal with an active shooter, but to think a "trained" civilian is going to be of real help is fantasy at best, delusion at worst. So tell us, are you willing to guarantee that all,, or most, active shooters are going to/kill themselves when confronted. Or will those who don't simply surrender. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts, Rambo. I look forward to seeing you resolve all manner of active shooter situations down the road.

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Yes civilians with minimal training have never stopped an active shooter, I mean most active shooters are so highly trained only those with LE credentials stand any chance against a kid who has hundred of hours playing CoD

 

[Mass-diver]

No, it doesn't a SEAL to deal with an active shooter, but to think a "trained" civilian is going to be of real help is fantasy at best, delusion at worst. So tell us, are you willing to guarantee that all,, or most, active shooters are going to/kill themselves when confronted. Or will those who don't simply surrender. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts, Rambo. I look forward to seeing you resolve all manner of active shooter situations down the road.

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No need for name calling.

I'm simply pointing out that millions of regular Americans have successfully used firearms to deal with much more dangerous individuals than a kid with his mom's rifle. I know my buddies that fought overseas have faced worth that some coward kid with a pistol and AR. But, now that they are out of service, I guess they are just coward civilians who would be sure to wilt in the face of any threat?

As I father, I want trained armed guards in my daughter's school. I think, while not fool proof, they offer a good deal of protection and are a common sense safety measure.

 

[SigNation]

Yes civilians with minimal training have never stopped an active shooter, I mean most active shooters are so highly trained only those with LE credentials stand any chance against a kid who has hundred of hours playing CoD

Nobody here ever said that a civilian never stopped an active shooter. Certainly not me. Oh, but wait, you're raising a disingenuous straw man and trying to attribute it to me. Tsk, tsk. Didn't work Boggie.

Now, we all know that the reason professionals, be they police, military or properly trained civilian security professionals train repeatedly for active shooter situations is because when e crisis hits and the adrenalin starts to flow, it's patterned responses that will get you through without being killed and/or killing others when that could have been avoided with long term, regular training. Putting anyone less than that in such a potentially critical situation is foolhardy. I certainly would not want such a person charged with protecting my daughter's school. Your view my differ.

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[Boghog1]

Whatever.

sent from the hand basket.

 

[Coyote33]

Go listen and read the NRA announcement, trust me I am one of the biggest anti NRA person on this board but they did not say they needed to be paid only they said a trained armed good guy, that could be anyone from LEOs to a parent volunteer and they would provide training

Yes, I am fairly certain they said it multiple times that it could be citizen volunteers.

... the NRA proposal is quite half-baked. Yes they talked about "trained" civilian volunteers going in to the schools. That's simply retarded. ...

Not at all. It would certainly have slowed down, if not stopped this particular tragedy.

 

[SigNation]

Yes, I am fairly certain they said it multiple times that it could be citizen volunteers.




Not at all. It would certainly have slowed down, if not stopped this particular tragedy.

"Certainly?" Prove it.

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[Boghog1]

"Certainly?" Prove it.

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Tell you what go to a school that has an armed guard and try doing a mass shooting see what your death toll is and compare it to Sandy hook.

 

[Nicole]

Tell you what go to a school that has an armed guard and try doing a mass shooting see what your death toll is and compare it to Sandy hook.

Honestly - it will be much more dependent upon the intelligence and planning ability of the murderer than the presence of one armed guard. My father was a public school administrator for close to the last twenty years. He is also a CC'er, a 22-year veteran of the USMC, protective of "his" kids, and had a good relationship with all of the various police officers assigned to his schools (nice suburban school district, police officers stationed in the schools for nearly 20 years). The topic of spree killers has come up and been carefully considered, I assure you. Given the size and logistics of a typical suburban high school...one known armed individual is not working with good odds.

 

[Boghog1]

Honestly - it will be much more dependent upon the intelligence and planning ability of the murderer than the presence of one armed guard. My father was a public school administrator for close to the last twenty years. He is also a CC'er, a 22-year veteran of the USMC, protective of "his" kids, and had a good relationship with all of the various police officers assigned to his schools (nice suburban school district, police officers stationed in the schools for nearly 20 years). The topic of spree killers has come up and been carefully considered, I assure you. Given the size and logistics of a typical suburban high school...one known armed individual is not working with good odds.

Better odds than one known unarmed individual has against a gunman. I am willing to bet if the armed individual is unknown the odds go up a bit more.

 

[SigNation]

Tell you what go to a school that has an armed guard and try doing a mass shooting see what your death toll is and compare it to Sandy hook.

Try to follow this. The poster made a claim of certainty as to a specific place and incident that took place in the past. I doubt there is any way to prove with certainty the outcome he claims would have been at that school in CT. The poster is ingaged in nothing more than mere speculation under the guise of a claim of certainty. In other words, the poster was BSing.

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[Nicole]

Better odds than one known unarmed individual has against a gunman. I am willing to bet if the armed individual is unknown the odds go up a bit more.

I agree with both of those. I have no problem with SRO's and wish the gun-free zone BS would stop. But an armed guard, identified or no, is relying on getting lucky. I still maintain that the death tolls are much more linked to traits of the murderers than characteristics of a guard.

 

[Boghog1]

Try to follow this. The poster made a claim of certainty as to a specific place and incident that took place in the past. I doubt there is any way to prove with certainty the outcome he claims would have been at that school in CT. The poster is ingaged in nothing more than mere speculation under the guise of a claim of certainty. In other words, the poster was BSing.

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So why are you asking him to prove it, if you know for a fact it is impossible to prove.

People make claims all the time that are taken as fact even though they can't be proven.

 

[SigNation]

So why are you asking him to prove it, if you know for a fact it is impossible to prove.

People make claims all the time that are taken as fact even though they can't be proven.

Just my way of calling him out on his BS.

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[Boghog1]

I agree with both of those. I have no problem with SRO's and wish the gun-free zone BS would stop. But an armed guard, identified or no, is relying on getting lucky. I still maintain that the death tolls are much more linked to traits of the murderers than characteristics of a guard.

Are there any specific traits that enable higher death tolls?

 

[Nicole]

Are there any specific traits that enable higher death tolls?

The ability to plan and general intelligence for starters. I don't care to go in to specifics here beyond that (not because I have any secret squirrel info, some things are just not appropriate in certain venues).

 

[dcmdon]

No, it doesn't a SEAL to deal with an active shooter, but to think a "trained" civilian is going to be of real help is fantasy at best, delusion at worst. So tell us, are you willing to guarantee that all,, or most, active shooters are going to/kill themselves when confronted. Or will those who don't simply surrender. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts, Rambo. I look forward to seeing you resolve all manner of active shooter situations down the road.

Sent from my Barnes & Noble Nook Tablet using Tapatalk 2

I hope you realize that anyone with an IDPA classification if Marksman or higher is better trained than half of the LEOs out there.

 

[Coyote33]

Honestly - it will be much more dependent upon the intelligence and planning ability of the murderer than the presence of one armed guard. My father was a public school administrator for close to the last twenty years. He is also a CC'er, a 22-year veteran of the USMC, protective of "his" kids, and had a good relationship with all of the various police officers assigned to his schools (nice suburban school district, police officers stationed in the schools for nearly 20 years). The topic of spree killers has come up and been carefully considered, I assure you. Given the size and logistics of a typical suburban high school...one known armed individual is not working with good odds.

No, but one small elementary school, with basically one long hallway and an admin wing sure improves those chances back up again.