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Motorcycle permit.

Grendizer138 said:
There’s plenty of reasons to not wear a helmet, they just don’t offset the safety of wearing one, especially in the age of shitty drivers text messaging.
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Name me one.
I wouldn't ride my bicycle without a helmet never mind a motorcycle. I've worn helmets my whole life, batting, hockey helmet, steel pot and then Kevlar, bicycle helmet, hard hat, etc. A good, well fitted full face helmet is the most comfortable. I usually pay around $600 for a closeout Arai on Revzilla, current one I'm looking at is around $900.

Practice the 2, 4, 12 second rule.
Speed and power are your friend if you know what you're doing.
Don't ever get boxed in, always have an exit/escape route.
Any fairing, windshield will make riding more enjoyable, unless you have power windshield make sure it's no higher than your nose when sitting in seat. You don't want to be looking thru the plastic, you want to be looking over it.
Tires are your life line, DO NOT skimp on rubber.
 
SFC13557 said:
Name me one.
I wouldn't ride my bicycle without a helmet never mind a motorcycle. I've worn helmets my whole life, batting, hockey helmet, steel pot and then Kevlar, bicycle helmet, hard hat, etc. A good, well fitted full face helmet is the most comfortable. I usually pay around $600 for a closeout Arai on Revzilla, current one I'm looking at is around $900.

Practice the 2, 4, 12 second rule.
Speed and power are your friend if you know what you're doing.
Don't ever get boxed in, always have an exit/escape route.
Any fairing, windshield will make riding more enjoyable, unless you have power windshield make sure it's no higher than your nose when sitting in seat. You don't want to be looking thru the plastic, you want to be looking over it.
Tires are your life line, DO NOT skimp on rubber.
Click to expand...
Head fatigue. Neck fatigue. Some decreased visibility. Decreased hearing (sensory limitation). Decreased cooling. Fogged glass at stop under certain conditions. Decreased enjoyment (subjective). Inability to speak clearly to other bikers/passenger at stop lights. Inability to drink liquids easily at stops (modular helmets alleviate this, but can create additional head or neck fatigue due to weight). I’m sure there’s more, but you only asked for one, so….

I’ve ridden without helmets when younger and now I always wear a full face Arai, so I’m able to identify differnces between the two. You, however, already stated you’ve never ridden without a helmet, so I don’t think you can be objective here, but you’re a BMW guy and I’m sure you’ll try.

Anywho, your point of always wearing a helmet for safety is true.
 
I don't know if it was mentioned, but A Twist of the Wrist is a 'racing' book, but the dynamics of 'racing' cross over to street riding quite well. Subtle things like the tires grip better under acceleration.

The book goes over how throttle and braking can make differences in how you take turns and stuff like that. It does go a little deep, but you can skip those pages until you are ready for them.

Smaller bikes handle amazing vs big bikes. I may look into one of these myself, it's a cool looking little bike.
 
SFC13557 said:
As a former MSF Instructor I recommend when you pass test for your learner's permit, pre-pay for your license at Registry and sign up for MSF beginner class.
If/when you complete/pass course Instructor will inform Registry of you passing course and you will receive your new M license in mail in 10-14 days. Braking and counter steering, swerving are key lessons to learn and understand and practice. Many new bikes have linked brakes and anti-lock brakes now. Learn ATGATT, ALL THE GEAR ALL THE TIME. Buy a good fitting, high quality helmet and a Hi-Viz jacket. I recommend Shoei and Arai helmets, I wear an Arai because I have a medium, long oval head like most Caucasians and they make helmets for us. Got into it with my dental hygienist who lives in CT. and rides with her husband without helmets. WTF? There is NO reason not to wear a helmet, it's more comfortable, quieter and much safer. I don't understand the Harley attitude except these guys watched Easy Rider way too many times. Any other questions please ask, I ride a 2016 BMW RT1200. Awesome bike.
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Harley guy here and I never go without a helmet, protective jacket, gloves and riding boots.
 
Grendizer138 said:
Head fatigue. Neck fatigue. Some decreased visibility. Decreased hearing (sensory limitation). Decreased cooling. Fogged glass at stop under certain conditions. Decreased enjoyment (subjective). Inability to speak clearly to other bikers/passenger at stop lights. Inability to drink liquids easily at stops (modular helmets alleviate this, but can create additional head or neck fatigue due to weight). I’m sure there’s more, but you only asked for one, so….

I’ve ridden without helmets when younger and now I always wear a full face Arai, so I’m able to identify differnces between the two. You, however, already stated you’ve never ridden without a helmet, so I don’t think you can be objective here, but you’re a BMW guy and I’m sure you’ll try.

Anywho, your point of always wearing a helmet for safety is true.
Click to expand...
A well constructed, fitted helmet should not cause any of the issues you mention. A cheap POS helmet would thou.
My 1st bike was a new 1973 Honda CB 350G, I wore an open faced Bell Helmet with a wraparound shield when it was cold and bought the bike without ever ridden a motorcycle. No MSF courses back then. I was spacing out and came up over a hill and looked ahead and a car was stopped to let another vehicle turn into their driveway. If I knew what I was doing I probably could have stopped but I panicked and locked up the brakes, bike went into a slide and I was going down. Tried the getoff and footpeg dug into pavement while I was still hanging on and launched me over the bike. I landed on my shoulder and the side of my face, head and did a combat roll and popped back up. Face shield was destroyed and snaps on helmet were ripped out of helmet but I didn't have a scratch. Shoulder of jacket was ripped out, if I wasn't wearing helmet with face shield I would have been in a world of hurt, never mind a very ugly face.:cool:
 
SFC13557 said:
A well constructed, fitted helmet should not cause any of the issues you mention. A cheap POS helmet would thou.
My 1st bike was a new 1973 Honda CB 350G, I wore an open faced Bell Helmet with a wraparound shield when it was cold and bought the bike without ever ridden a motorcycle. No MSF courses back then. I was spacing out and came up over a hill and looked ahead and a car was stopped to let another vehicle turn into their driveway. If I knew what I was doing I probably could have stopped but I panicked and locked up the brakes, bike went into a slide and I was going down. Tried the getoff and footpeg dug into pavement while I was still hanging on and launched me over the bike. I landed on my shoulder and the side of my face, head and did a combat roll and popped back up. Face shield was destroyed and snaps on helmet were ripped out of helmet but I didn't have a scratch. Shoulder of jacket was ripped out, if I wasn't wearing helmet with face shield I would have been in a world of hurt, never mind a very ugly face.:cool:
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lol. Like I said.

Let me help you: “there may be some small advantages to not wearing a helmet, but none are worth the potential of injury or death in the event of a crash”.
 
whacko said:
Harley guy here and I never go without a helmet, protective jacket, gloves and riding boots.
Click to expand...
We would get HOG members showing up for the experienced course and it was always a battle. They were told DOT helmet, boots, gloves, long sleeve shirt and 1/2 would show up with their toy helmets and get pissed when they were told they were a no-go. We had helmets for the beginner class so they had a choice, wear one of our helmets or go home. Never mind when we got into counter steering and use of the front brakes. :cool:
 
Grendizer138 said:
lol. Like I said.

Let me help you: “there may be some small advantages to not wearing a helmet, but none are worth the potential of injury or death in the event of a crash”.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, I wore many ill fitted, cheap helmets that did all you mentioned above. Before I discovered Arai and could afford them, I used to get a forehead headache after 60-90 minutes of wearing one. Reason, most helmets are made by Japanese and they use round molds which are not good for white boys like me with md/long oval heads. Thats why I recommend trying on a helmet wearing it in the store/house for at least 1hr before purchase.
 
Grendizer138 said:
Head fatigue. Neck fatigue. Some decreased visibility. Decreased hearing (sensory limitation). Decreased cooling. Fogged glass at stop under certain conditions. Decreased enjoyment (subjective). Inability to speak clearly to other bikers/passenger at stop lights. Inability to drink liquids easily at stops (modular helmets alleviate this, but can create additional head or neck fatigue due to weight). I’m sure there’s more, but you only asked for one, so….

I’ve ridden without helmets when younger and now I always wear a full face Arai, so I’m able to identify differnces between the two. You, however, already stated you’ve never ridden without a helmet, so I don’t think you can be objective here, but you’re a BMW guy and I’m sure you’ll try.

Anywho, your point of always wearing a helmet for safety is true.
Click to expand...

I know it's not current popular opinion, but all of this.

When I first started riding decades ago... gear wasn't nearly as good as it is now. Gear was hot, heavy, and not very functional.
So I learned to ride and did the vast majority of my riding without any. Its how I learned, so I HIGHLY encourage people to get in good habits from the start. Just like firearms, don't establish bad habits. Start with good habits so that bad technique just feels wrong.

When I moved here and had to wear a helmet, I didn't feel as though I could see as well. Peripheral vision was impacted. I didn't feel I could hear as well. So my senses were dulled - especially when at a stop sign and looking around to see and hear oncoming / crossing traffic. I don't think anyone can argue that part.
Even with expensive and well fitted helmets.... your peripheral vision and hearing is less than without. Yes, I have been professionally fitted for high end helmets.

But all that said, I don't ride without gear now. And that includes, moto specific boots, gloves, jacket, overpants, helmet... and sometimes back protector. I'm older and wiser and have more to lose now. LOL.

Way too many distracted drivers and pedestrians now that there's no way I'd go out without ATGATT.
 
SFC13557 said:
I agree with you, I wore many ill fitted, cheap helmets that did all you mentioned above. Before I discovered Arai and could afford them, I used to get a forehead headache after 60-90 minutes of wearing one. Reason, most helmets are made by Japanese and they use round molds which are not good for white boys like me with md/long oval heads. Thats why I recommend trying on a helmet wearing it in the store/house for at least 1hr before purchase.
Click to expand...
I’ve tried all kinds of helmets. I’ve never found a DOT half helmet that didn’t suck. 3/4 helmets are a good compromise but you look like Kazoo and, frankly, I’m too good looking to not have full face protection. I wear a full-face Arai or Biltwell now.

Still not as enjoyable as no helmet, but absolutely necessary
 
"When I first started riding decades ago... gear wasn't nearly as good as it is now. Gear was hot, heavy, and not very functional.
So I learned to ride and did the vast majority of my riding without any. Its how I learned, so I HIGHLY encourage people to get in good habits from the start. Just like firearms, don't establish bad habits. Start with good habits so that bad technique just feels wrong."

You are correct, back in the 70's it was a leather jacket/jeans jacket and engineer boots.
I highly recommend Olympia jackets and pants. My Hi Viz jacket has a mesh outer shell with 2 liners for 3 season comfort. I have 2 pr of pants, mesh summer and solid cool weather.
 
The problem is that even the entry level bikes are expensive these days even used there's no such thing as a cheap motorcycle anymore that is not a basket case or has not been maintained valves adjusted tires garbage cables rusted solid
 
weekendracer said:
I don't know if it was mentioned, but A Twist of the Wrist is a 'racing' book, but the dynamics of 'racing' cross over to street riding quite well. Subtle things like the tires grip better under acceleration.

The book goes over how throttle and braking can make differences in how you take turns and stuff like that. It does go a little deep, but you can skip those pages until you are ready for them.

Smaller bikes handle amazing vs big bikes. I may look into one of these myself, it's a cool looking little bike.
Click to expand...
YES!!! I think it’s a twist of the wrist II (by Keith Code) is the best of the three (I forget, and I have all three)

I would re read it before each season to remind me of the skills.

It made me a much better rider!

One topic I have not seen here in 4 pages is “counter steering” learn it, live it, love it.

I don’t ride much anymore, but I had 3 bikes at once, dirt, sport bike and a Harley at the same the same time. Never took the msf course, but i recommend it.
 
chris_1001 said:
YES!!! I think it’s a twist of the wrist II (by Keith Code) is the best of the three (I forget, and I have all three)

I would re read it before each season to remind me of the skills.

It made me a much better rider!

One topic I have not seen here in 4 pages is “counter steering” learn it, live it, love it.

I don’t ride much anymore, but I had 3 bikes at once, dirt, sport bike and a Harley at the same the same time. Never took the msf course, but i recommend it.
Click to expand...
Also, Lee Parks' Total Control.
Or Proficient Motorcycling (which is basically the text for the MSF class)
 
Last edited:
chris_1001 said:
YES!!! I think it’s a twist of the wrist II (by Keith Code) is the best of the three (I forget, and I have all three)

I would re read it before each season to remind me of the skills.

It made me a much better rider!

One topic I have not seen here in 4 pages is “counter steering” learn it, live it, love it.

I don’t ride much anymore, but I had 3 bikes at once, dirt, sport bike and a Harley at the same the same time. Never took the msf course, but i recommend it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the 'adding throttle in a turn' saved my butt a few times up in the mountains. The natural reaction is to ease off, or worse, slam off the throttle. I was guilty of it. Easing into a turn the bike just eats into the turn and stays stable. Ease off and you load the 1/4 inch of rubber holding you on the road too much and away you go.
 
Road_Clam said:
The #1 mistake inexperienced riders make is incorrect "target fixation" . "You will always go where you are looking " its fact. If your entering a corner do NOT look at the outside of the mid section of the turn , you need to be looking at the inside edge of the corner exit .

#2 is "all (or too much) rear braking ". 75% of your braking should be front applied initially, then introduce assistive rear braking as needed.

Ive actually seen the elite AMA pro roadracers up at NHIS apply 100% front brake preparing to enter a corner carrying the rear wheel 4" off the ground and subsequently execute a perfect cornering line ! DAM impressive technique to observe.
Click to expand...
“Your eyes lead you to the scene of the crash.”

Lee Parks used to run a terrific Advanced Rider Course. Before the braking drills. he took his Triumph and made four consecutive stops with his rear wheel in the air. Along with being a road racer of some note, he’d been a Cycle World Editor and done innumerable brake tests.

In the following drill, a guy on a Concourse without ABS locked up the front wheel, dumping the bike and breaking his collarbone. 30mph on straight, flat pavement.

This was a cornering drill. Recorded the Valk for entertainment purposes: no one else dragged.


View: https://youtu.be/sFZ3QGK5BHY
 
garandman said:
“Your eyes lead you to the scene of the crash.”

Lee Parks used to run a terrific Advanced Rider Course. Before the braking drills. he took his Triumph and made four consecutive stops with his rear wheel in the air. Along with being a road racer of some note, he’d been a Cycle World Editor and done innumerable brake tests.

In the following drill, a guy on a Concourse without ABS locked up the front wheel, dumping the bike and breaking his collarbone. 30mph on straight, flat pavement.

This was a cornering drill. Recorded the Valk for entertainment purposes: no one else dragged.


View: https://youtu.be/sFZ3QGK5BHY
Click to expand...


This is THE primary reason head on collisions occur. Doesn't matter what your operating , MC, car , boat . inexperienced target fixation (panic in this situation) and you mentally freeze and have delayed (or none) defensive reactions. This a a really bad habit thats tough to break. Luckily i attended numerous track days , and i took the Penguin Road Racing school . HUGE help with both smooth speed , and skills learnt that helped with street defensive riding.
 
Road_Clam said:
This is THE primary reason head on collisions occur. Doesn't matter what your operating , MC, car , boat . inexperienced target fixation (panic in this situation) and you mentally freeze and have delayed (or none) defensive reactions. This a a really bad habit thats tough to break. Luckily i attended numerous track days , and i took the Penguin Road Racing school . HUGE help with both smooth speed , and skills learnt that helped with street defensive riding.
Click to expand...
Agreed with this. I've done about 50 track days and have learned much from those experiences. I almost failed my MSF course back in 2007 since I had a hard time with the figure 8 box.
 
roccoracer said:
For my first season I don't plan on riding any highways or busy roads. I live in the hills of western mass and the roads around me are not busy at all.
Click to expand...
If you're proficient with riding (you mentioned riding dirtbikes), I highly recommend the MSF Experienced Rider Course. You'll benefit from the skills drills which reinforce street-smart riding. Riding in the hills of wmass, you'll encounter numerous road hazards, wildlife, oncoming traffic crossing the centerline, etc., which the ERC can help you prepare for. Sure, you could develop these skills on your own, over time. But the ERC accelerates that learning, without the risk.
 
Last summer in Colorado. Rained for three of four days.

i-62pH2Zh-L.jpg



Wickedcoolname said:
Group rides are gayer than a ponytail having Crocs wearer.
Click to expand...
Why are people here so gay-obsessed? Just ride to a restaurant for breakfast or coffee like other NES gatherings.
 
Last edited:
go to rmv and get your permit
take a learn to ride class, once you pass that class, which is 2 days, you can apply for a motorcycle license, and with the class under your belt, your insurance for the bike will be less.
you will not have to do a road test at RMV this way
 

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