More reliable than a Glock 19?

BigAl23

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There's always something new coming out to challenge the G19. They have to prove the test of time which Glock has done for over 35 yrs. With that said, I would recommend the FN 509M as an alternative. Same size as the G19 and it has been perfect for me. The FN definitely has a good reputation. Another one that just came out but not Ma compliant yet is the Mossberg MC2. Also the same size as the G19 and if it is reliable should be a good one.
 
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Taking it down isn't half as bad as putting it back together.
I've been shooting Ruger MKs for 35 years. Its tough at first. But I was forced to figure it out when I was 16 simply because I shot bulls eye with it every week and my dad insisted I clean it every couple of weeks.

Once you get the hang of it its pretty easy. On assembly. Hammer back, insert bolt. squeeze trigger, roll the gun upside down so gravity pulls it forward. Continue around muzzle up so hammer strut hangs down and insert mainspring assembly and close.

Of course the angle need to be just right to get the hammer to swing and the strut to hang properly. JUST RIGHT. But you figure it out.

You kids have it too easy with the Mk 4. Ha.
 

KBCraig

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The funny thing is that the 2 handguns I shoot most are Glock and 1911s. The Glock is the Honda accord. Decent performing, ridiculously reliable, eminently hot rodable.

The 1911 is the finicky european sports car. Sexy, a bit outdated in how its built, but amazing.
No.

The 1911 is the American muscle car: big bore, loud, crude, and effective.

You might need to know how to tune a carburetor to get the best performance out of it, but it will run just fine as it ships, stock.
 

JDL

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Tell him he needs a S&W 360 j frame and to only shoot 357's because 38's are no good for the revolver. Oh and make sure you tell him to only use the wooden grips because the rubber grips are not as reliable.
 
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No.

The 1911 is the American muscle car: big bore, loud, crude, and effective.

You might need to know how to tune a carburetor to get the best performance out of it, but it will run just fine as it ships, stock.
You must be a young guy. We are now in the golden age of 1911s. Prior to that (~2000), you had pretty much 2 brands. Colt and all the other crap.

All needed some attention to be truly reliable compared to modern guns. The Glock I purchased in 2000 ran for 30,000 rounds with nothing more than 2 replacement recoil spring assemblies and one extractor. (time to change 3 minutes).

I like the muscle car analogy though.
 
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No.

The 1911 is the American muscle car: big bore, loud, crude, and effective.

You might need to know how to tune a carburetor to get the best performance out of it, but it will run just fine as it ships, stock.
Yes, and just like the traditional muscle car the 1911 is outperformed by just about anything modern but costs twice as much :)
 
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Yes, and just like the traditional muscle car the 1911 is outperformed by just about anything modern but costs twice as much :)
Ha. Yes. 16.0 sec in the quarter was a big deal. To get much faster you had to special order a car with rare and sometimes expensive options like a 6 pack and 4.11 gears with a 4 speed manual.

The typical muscle car with a powerglide and 3.73 rear end was lucky to break 16 seconds. (There is a famous GTO review done by road and track. It was a ringer built specifically for the test. Even then, it turned 14.5 in the quarter. Fast. But because of its 4.11 gears, its top speed was 115 mph)

I'm 50ish. I like to say that I grew up in the doldrums when it came to cars and women's clothes. The 80s were the era of 225 hp corvettes and Benetton sweaters. Now we have 700 hp corvettes and crop tops. Oh to combine today's crop tops with the early 2000s hip huggers. But I digress.

One last thing. Remember that back then it was SOP for the manufacturer to send specially tuned "ringers" to the car mags for testing. This is a well documented fact. Google is loaded with info on this.

Ok. another last thing. We live in an era of 300 hp honda civics. There has never been a better time to be a car enthusiast. Even if you are nostalgic and a purist, $60k gets you an Ariel Atom, a 1300 lb street legal race car with lots of engine options. Including 400 hp turbo 4 cylinders from Honda or GM.
 
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citoriguy

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Ha. Yes. 16.0 sec in the quarter was a big deal. To get much faster you had to special order a car with rare and sometimes expensive options like a 6 pack and 4.11 gears with a 4 speed manual.

The typical muscle car with a powerglide and 3.73 rear end was lucky to break 16 seconds. (There is a famous GTO review done by road and track. It was a ringer built specifically for the test. Even then, it turned 14.5 in the quarter. Fast. But because of its 4.11 gears, its top speed was 115 mph)

I'm 50ish. I like to say that I grew up in the doldrums when it came to cars and women's clothes. The 80s were the era of 225 hp corvettes and Benetton sweaters. Now we have 700 hp corvettes and crop tops. Oh to combine today's crop tops with the early 2000s hip huggers. But I digress.

One last thing. Remember that back then it was SOP for the manufacturer to send specially tuned "ringers" to the car mags for testing. This is a well documented fact. Google is loaded with info on this.

Ok. another last thing. We live in an era of 300 hp honda civics. There has never been a better time to be a car enthusiast. Even if you are nostalgic and a purist, $60k gets you an Ariel Atom, a 1300 lb street legal race car with lots of engine options. Including 400 hp turbo 4 cylinders from Honda or GM.
The 80s also gave us the E30 M3, Porsche 951 (let alone the 930 and the 964 (intro’d in’ 89)), and the Ferrari 288GTO And F40. Don’t forget the Countach too. At least the M3 an 951 were in reach for more people than either of the Ferraris And Lamborghini.

At least one thing is constant - stock Civics still have no torque.
 

Rob Boudrie

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Why does everyone forget REVOLVERS...?!
Revolvers being more reliable became obsolete with the introduction of modern era pistols like the Glock, Sigs, etc.

I have had a hammer pivot stud on a 686 break, and at another time, a trigger pivot stud. On another occasion, I saw a competitors S&W 625 jam up to the point where she could not even open the cylinder. I helped her disassemble it (properly, no prying of the sideplate) and found a broken part in the cylinder release mechanism. In all cases, these were "hard failures" that could not be cleared in the field and rendered the revolver complete inoperational. All required a trip to the factory for repair.
 
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I'm 50ish. I like to say that I grew up in the doldrums when it came to cars and women's clothes. The 80s were the era of 225 hp corvettes and Benetton sweaters. Now we have 700 hp corvettes and crop tops. Oh to combine today's crop tops with the early 2000s hip huggers. But I digress.
Ha ha. I had a 78 Dodge Magnum. It had a 318 V8 with maybe 140 HP. They hadn't quite figured out the whole emissions/efficiency/power thing yet. Mine had "Electronic Lean Burn". I miss that car. I wish I had it now, and would put some good tires on it, a carb, and a cam, and rip out all the emissions crap. That thing rode so nice!

Oh, and let's not forget Guess! jeans. The only thing that made high school tolerable. Oh, and Top Gun and Kawasaki Ninjas.
 

drgrant

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Revolvers being more reliable became obsolete with the introduction of modern era pistols like the Glock, Sigs, etc.

I have had a hammer pivot stud on a 686 break, and at another time, a trigger pivot stud. On another occasion, I saw a competitors S&W 625 jam up to the point where she could not even open the cylinder. I helped her disassemble it (properly, no prying of the sideplate) and found a broken part in the mag release mechanism. In all cases, these were "hard failures" that could not be cleared in the field and rendered the revolver complete inoperational. All required a trip to the factory for repair.
A close friend of mine has Ruger Alaskan that went inop after probably less than a hundred rounds being fired through it during his life span most of it not even 454 Casull.... it lights tried to couple of times and now the thing has a hitch in its giddy up when you pull the trigger something is definitely wrong with the thing.... off to the factory it goes..... not all revolvers at this way obviously but people who think that they're more reliable are really just deluding themselves. The lockwork inside a revolver is ridiculously complicated in the sense that if something is just a little bit out of whack, then the whole thing is going to stop working.... also heaven help you if you get a little bit of sand or something inside the lock work somehow......
 
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Ha ha. I had a 78 Dodge Magnum. It had a 318 V8 with maybe 140 HP. They hadn't quite figured out the whole emissions/efficiency/power thing yet. Mine had "Electronic Lean Burn". I miss that car. I wish I had it now, and would put some good tires on it, a carb, and a cam, and rip out all the emissions crap. That thing rode so nice!

Oh, and let's not forget Guess! jeans. The only thing that made high school tolerable. Oh, and Top Gun and Kawasaki Ninjas.
I remember when the first bike ran a quarter mile in the 10s. Now 600s do that. Though the high HP bikes don't go much faster, its really because they are traction limited in low gears with normal tires. That and wheeleeing. I remember a few years ago a bike mag took a Hyabusa and replaced the stock rear tire with a drag slick and added a wheelie bar. The thing went like a second faster in the quarter. Of course trap speed, which is really indicative of power to weight rather than traction pretty much stayed the same.
 
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You must be a young guy. We are now in the golden age of 1911s. Prior to that (~2000), you had pretty much 2 brands. Colt and all the other crap.

All needed some attention to be truly reliable compared to modern guns. The Glock I purchased in 2000 ran for 30,000 rounds with nothing more than 2 replacement recoil spring assemblies and one extractor. (time to change 3 minutes).

I like the muscle car analogy though.
Discussion over here: Best MA-compliant Government Frame 1911?
 

Mark from MA

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After years of voting Anti....

Tell him pretend like his voting worked and his best bet is something sharp and pointy or heavy and clubby.

or call the police after hes been beaten, his wife raped and his shit taken.
 

beaker

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A close friend of mine has Ruger Alaskan that went inop after probably less than a hundred rounds being fired through it during his life span most of it not even 454 Casull.... it lights tried to couple of times and now the thing has a hitch in its giddy up when you pull the trigger something is definitely wrong with the thing.... off to the factory it goes..... not all revolvers at this way obviously but people who think that they're more reliable are really just deluding themselves. The lockwork inside a revolver is ridiculously complicated in the sense that if something is just a little bit out of whack, then the whole thing is going to stop working.... also heaven help you if you get a little bit of sand or something inside the lock work somehow......
Revolvers, they look simple on the outside, but inside they are swiss clocks, one little spring failure will make them inoperable or very unreliable. No thanks for a critical self defense or combat arm.
 

Individualist

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There is a reason my trusty gen2 is my HD gun. In the middle of the night I don’t have to worry about it. With a Recover Tactical rail, TLR 8 and pre-ban drop free’s what could possibly be better? Nuttin’ honey.

6C81B5C5-A895-43A6-9C1E-FC686238DBB6.jpeg
 
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That premise is stupid in and of itself. Hunting for MA compliant handguns is a fools errand.

You buy what you want whether its MA compliant or not. Everything is available on the secondary market. And it is all legal to possess. Remember compliance only allows a dealer to sell it. (I'm not talking about AWB compliance).

If you want a non-compliant handgun you wait and pay a premium on the secondary market. The premium is a rounding error when you figure in the cost of shooting including ammo. Get what isbest for you. Get what you want.

Again, I'm not talking about breaking any laws. This is all perfectly legal. an individual can lawfully sell a non-compliant handgun to another individual.
 
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There is a reason my trusty gen2 is my HD gun. In the middle of the night I don’t have to worry about it. With a Recover Tactical rail, TLR 8 and pre-ban drop free’s what could possibly be better? Nuttin’ honey.
A gen 5. But that's still very nice.

In all seriousness. The TLR7/8 are terrible lights. Its impossible to trigger it without significantly shifting your grip. Look at where the button is. Now look at where the switch is on a TLR1. The TLR7/8 is an ergonomic disaster. Unless you have the hands of an NBA player. I wear XL size gloves and still can't reach.
 

Individualist

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A gen 5. But that's still very nice.

In all seriousness. The TLR7/8 are terrible lights. Its impossible to trigger it without significantly shifting your grip. Look at where the button is. Now look at where the switch is on a TLR1. The TLR7/8 is an ergonomic disaster. Unless you have the hands of an NBA player. I wear XL size gloves and still can't reach.
I don’t find the TLR 8 to be a problem for my needs and prefer the relatively compact size and weight, but am not here to debate light preferences.

You know I’ve been tempted to sell the gen2 and get a newer model, but then I think to myself why? It works well and is dialed it. I don’t really care that it’s not the newest or sexiest. That said, any generation that is well maintained is going to be highly reliable.
 
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That makes perfect sense.

I shot the same 2 pistols almost exclusively for 10 years. A Gen4 G34 and Les Baer 1911. A friend of mine seemingly got a new competition gun every 3 months.

Every match we shot, I knew point of impact. I knew my reloads would work. I knew the idiosyncrasies of each gun. Every time my friend got his new gun. He'd fail. He'd get frustrated and I'd kick his ass.

You know the saying. "Beware the man with only one gun".

Re the lights - I love streamlight products. But the TLR7/8 is so bad I had to buy an inferior product so that I could actually reach the swtich without shifting my grip.
What is interesting is that Streamlight seems to have recognized this and moved the switch back by almost an inch.

I realize you don't want to debate this. This is more for someone who is considering a TLR7 or 8.

New




Old


 

MaverickNH

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All the Fed, State and local PD LEOs want to shoot my G19 at SIG Academy - it’s a Gen3 frame with a Lone Wolf G17 slide/barrel on it, a nice Pyramid trigger group, a light/laser to counterbalance and a Trij RMR. They usually out-shoot me, but only in the last round of fire. Young bucks, half my age, who have to shoot agency issued OEM firearms but get cases of very, very expensive ammo to practice with from Uncle Sam.

That said, I’m glad they shoot better than me - I’m paying their salary!
 
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