Medical Marijuana and Guns

[Big Daddy 45acp]

"U-Smok'em"

Combination gun range and medical marijuana shop, any backers?

 

[SamH]

Well that's kind of like someone stoned driving. It's illegal and I, personally, think you're a dick if you do it, because you're endangering others regardless of how well you think you can handle yourself. However, stoned driving, in most people, is certainly safer than drunk driving.

Not all drinkers drive ( so no drunk driving ) , but can become drunk, yet still have a license
Not all smokers drive ( so no stoned driving ) , but this law denies smokers licensing (and/or possession)

 

[mostly_lurking]

Absolutely agree, but the idea that someone lose their guns because they have legal access to marijuana, just like we all have legal access to alcohol, is ludicrous. snip

Playing Devil's Advocate-

And there lies the conflict. Alcohol is legal at the federal level. Weed is not. The ATF is saying that based on federal law, they consider state sanctioned use of a federally controlled substance a firearms prohibitor.

Regardless of whether Marijuana should be legal, as long as state and federal law are in conflict this is the kind of stupidity that results. I think that it will take a SCOTUS case of this nature to bring it to a head and start the legalization discussion.

 

[Big Daddy 45acp]

And there lies the conflict. Alcohol is legal at the federal level. Weed is not. The ATF is saying that based on federal law, they consider state sanctioned use of a federally controlled substance a firearms prohibitor.

Yet another area that is not specifically provided for in the Constitution and therefore should be left to the States.

 

[fubar]

Should be left to the states - yes.

But the ATF/DEA/ Justice Dept see pot possession & use as a crime. They have told California that DEA can raid , seize and arrest at will.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Isn't disclosing someones medical history a flagrant HIPA violation? All narcotics are controlled substances. Why is our government deciding that it's OK for persons who have firearms and a scrip for Valium, Percosett, Oxycodone and the like but not Marijuana. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. First they come for the pot smokers then anyone with a scrip for a drug they don't like. It looks like our government will take any opportunity they can to deny citizens 2A rights.

Nobody in gov't gives a rats ass about HIPPA violations done by gov't (as opposed to done by civilians)! I've heard of demands for medical records in order to get a gun permit before (can't recall if it was in MA or elsewhere).

If you MAKE KNOWN to the chief/licensing officer that you regularly take any of the above-mentioned drugs (even if completely justified for medical reasons), don't be surprised if they don't DEMAND medical records, letters from doctors or downright deny a permit/renewal as "unsuitable person" and you can expect it to stick in court.

If you give them a bit of info they can use against you, you should fully expect them to do so.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Nobody in gov't gives a rats ass about HIPPA violations done by gov't (as opposed to done by civilians)! I've heard of demands for medical records in order to get a gun permit before (can't recall if it was in MA or elsewhere).

Not only that, but HIPPA actually contains a reduction in privacy as it states the govt can access any medical record without a warrant by simply issuing the mantra "national security".

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

True, but what's the worst thing a gun owner high on pot is going to do? Build a new gun rack/bong? i dunno. I can't see taking away someone's fundamental rights because they smoke.

i say what you wanna do in the privacy of your own home is your business, there is no reason why pot should be illegal, cigerttes and Alcohol kill more people than pot does. You smoke pot who is the victim?

 

[jcetto0351]

I'm pretty sure there's nothing about pot that stops tumors from coming back. It's used because it makes people feel better when they're going through chemo or other cancer treatments. If it prevented cancer, we'd all be smoking it.

Regardless of whether weed cures cancer or not... why does the consumption of one thing make gun ownership illegitimate? I see this as .gov taking more power and it concerns me even though there are "more important" infringements on our 2A right now! we should be for more people in ownership of firearms, not ignoring one injustice because in all likelyhood you don't happen to smoke pot.

I think it is absolutely ludicrous that a police officer judge or legislator can tell a person "pot = no gun" and then go home to his guns and sit down in his favorite chair and enjoy 2 or 3 or 5 jack and cokes!

 

[jcetto0351]

Playing Devil's Advocate-

And there lies the conflict. Alcohol is legal at the federal level. Weed is not. The ATF is saying that based on federal law, they consider state sanctioned use of a federally controlled substance a firearms prohibitor.

Regardless of whether Marijuana should be legal, as long as state and federal law are in conflict this is the kind of stupidity that results. I think that it will take a SCOTUS case of this nature to bring it to a head and start the legalization discussion.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people.

I understand marijuana is against federal law but the issuing of a gun permit is handled at the state level, if i remember correctly, so I still believe Oregon should be able to continue issuing permits to own guns

 

[william_munny]

Regardless of whether weed cures cancer or not... why does the consumption of one thing make gun ownership illegitimate? I see this as .gov taking more power and it concerns me even though there are "more important" infringements on our 2A right now! we should be for more people in ownership of firearms, not ignoring one injustice because in all likelyhood you don't happen to smoke pot.

I think it is absolutely ludicrous that a police officer judge or legislator can tell a person "pot = no gun" and then go home to his guns and sit down in his favorite chair and enjoy 2 or 3 or 5 jack and cokes!

I'm with you 100%, I was only pointing out that pot doesn't cure or prevent cancer. However, Chris showed me that there's evidence that may prove otherwise (on the prevention side, anyway).
At any rate, I would never argue that a person should not be able to exercise a natural right just because they chose to put some substance in their body.

 

[travis]

Unlike regular prescribed drugs there are two problems with marijuana. First no matter what the states may say the federal government says it is illegal. Second what most do not understand is that unlike regular prescribed drugs that are prescribed in both a dose and strength marijuana is just sold when the person gets the card. There is no dose given and every strain has a different "drug" ( THC ) amount in it. So getting a marijuana card is the same as giving a prescription for say Oxycontin to a person and telling the patient to pick how many mg they want and take it however often they wish. That would never fly right? But in the "medical marijuana" game that is exactly how it is done. The whole thing is a joke at best.

 

[drgrant]

Unlike regular prescribed drugs there are two problems with marijuana. First no matter what the states may say the federal government says it is illegal. Second what most do not understand is that unlike regular prescribed drugs that are prescribed in both a dose and strength marijuana is just sold when the person gets the card. There is no dose given and every strain has a different "drug" ( THC ) amount in it. So getting a marijuana card is the same as giving a prescription for say Oxycontin to a person and telling the patient to pick how many mg they want and take it however often they wish. That would never fly right? But in the "medical marijuana" game that is exactly how it is done. The whole thing is a joke at best.

Oh noes, what will we ever do because the government cannot control the dose?????!!!!!!!!!!!!



-Mike

 

[Big Daddy 45acp]

Unlike regular prescribed drugs there are two problems with marijuana. First no matter what the states may say the federal government says it is illegal. Second what most do not understand is that unlike regular prescribed drugs that are prescribed in both a dose and strength marijuana is just sold when the person gets the card. There is no dose given and every strain has a different "drug" ( THC ) amount in it. So getting a marijuana card is the same as giving a prescription for say Oxycontin to a person and telling the patient to pick how many mg they want and take it however often they wish. That would never fly right? But in the "medical marijuana" game that is exactly how it is done. The whole thing is a joke at best.

No one that I can think of has ever died from an overdose on pot.

 

[william_munny]

Unlike regular prescribed drugs there are two problems with marijuana. First no matter what the states may say the federal government says it is illegal. Second what most do not understand is that unlike regular prescribed drugs that are prescribed in both a dose and strength marijuana is just sold when the person gets the card. There is no dose given and every strain has a different "drug" ( THC ) amount in it. So getting a marijuana card is the same as giving a prescription for say Oxycontin to a person and telling the patient to pick how many mg they want and take it however often they wish. That would never fly right? But in the "medical marijuana" game that is exactly how it is done. The whole thing is a joke at best.

Yeah, but unlike Oxycontin, or even non-controlled substances like alcohol, a person won't directly kill themselves by smoking an excess amount of pot. Even though pot is illegal at the federal level, this conversation is about people who are legal users of it for medicinal purposes being denied their second amendment right, even though people who are prescribed much more dangerous drugs (such as oxy, vicodin, percocet, etc - which are also illegal at the federal level and carry steeper penalties for mere possession than marijuana does) do not have this same issue.

 

[cekim]

Yeah, but unlike Oxycontin, or even non-controlled substances like alcohol, a person won't directly kill themselves by smoking an excess amount of pot. Even though pot is illegal at the federal level, this conversation is about people who are legal users of it for medicinal purposes being denied their second amendment right, even though people who are prescribed much more dangerous drugs (such as oxy, vicodin, percocet, etc - which are also illegal at the federal level and carry steeper penalties for mere possession than marijuana does) do not have this same issue.

According to the Feds, there is no "legal" use - even medicinal... So, that argument doesn't really work. It is where it is on the DEA "schedule."

You have to make the broader argument of getting rid of the prohibition at the Federal level or removing the power of the Feds to decide, but at present there is no such thing as "medicinal weed," at the federal level last I checked.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

According to the Feds, there is no "legal" use - even medicinal.

There is, however, no more patients are accepted into the program and the feds are waiting for the 4 remaining federally legal users to die off. The feds have declared there is no legit use, and do their best to block any research, as they consider the issue "settled" and do not want any conflicting evidence. The politics are somewhat similar to climate change .

So getting a marijuana card is the same as giving a prescription for say Oxycontin to a person and telling the patient to pick how many mg they want and take it however often they wish. That would never fly right? But in the "medical marijuana" game that is exactly how it is done. The whole thing is a joke at best.

This is an effect of the federal policy, not a cause. If there were no federal ban, it would be possible for a vendor to deliver quality, lab tested product of known concentrations.

 

[whatluck]

Unlike regular prescribed drugs there are two problems with marijuana. First no matter what the states may say the federal government says it is illegal. Second what most do not understand is that unlike regular prescribed drugs that are prescribed in both a dose and strength marijuana is just sold when the person gets the card. There is no dose given and every strain has a different "drug" ( THC ) amount in it. So getting a marijuana card is the same as giving a prescription for say Oxycontin to a person and telling the patient to pick how many mg they want and take it however often they wish. That would never fly right? But in the "medical marijuana" game that is exactly how it is done. The whole thing is a joke at best.

The LD-50 of 1% marijuana in monkeys is a 33lb dose. I know someone that died after eating 160mg oxycontin.

 

[Dave_W]

This whole 'non-medicinal' is a joke.

In 5000 years no one has died from cannabis. Before 1938 cannabis was legal and available over the counter. Only a government agency seeking power wanted to outlaw 'marijuahana' so that other companies could profit from cotton, oil & plastics. Google 'Harry Anslinger', 'Jack Herer' or look at this link.

Alcohol is deadly. It kills something like 30,000 people a year (at least).

People should be able to ingest whatever they want as long as they don't harm anyone else.

I'm off the soapbox.

David

 

[Maxpower]

This whole 'non-medicinal' is a joke.

In 5000 years no one has died from cannabis. Before 1938 cannabis was legal and available over the counter. Only a government agency seeking power wanted to outlaw 'marijuahana' so that other companies could profit from cotton, oil & plastics. Google 'Harry Anslinger', 'Jack Herer' or look at this link.

Alcohol is deadly. It kills something like 30,000 people a year (at least).

People should be able to ingest whatever they want as long as they don't harm anyone else.

I'm off the soapbox.

David

Don't forget William Randolph Hurst.

 

[appraiser]

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people.

I understand marijuana is against federal law but the issuing of a gun permit is handled at the state level, if i remember correctly, so I still believe Oregon should be able to continue issuing permits to own guns

That's all fine and dandy, but when you get to that pesky question of the federal form at your friendly FFL about drug use, then that is where the Feds get the camels nose under the tent.

We could solve a lot of this countries issues by legalizing pot IMHO. Grow it domestically, tax it, use the tax money for border control. Take pot out of the Mexican drug cartels offerings and watch that issue go away. Stop all cocaine and heroin from getting into the country using the tax money.

I would never encourage anyone to smoke or drink, or do pot, and that isn't because I am some sort of a moral person, or because I am in a 12 step program, but if someone can use those products responsibly then it is none of my concern. When people are breaking into houses and stealing copper to fuel their habit, then it is an issue, and those people need treatment and incarceration.

 

[Maxpower]

We could solve a lot of this countries issues by legalizing pot IMHO. Grow it domestically, tax it, use the tax money for border control. Take pot out of the Mexican drug cartels offerings and watch that issue go away. Stop all cocaine and heroin from getting into the country using the tax money.

I don't think the answer to stopping drugs from getting across the border is more money. You ever watch Border Wars? The "I didn't know it was there" excuse seems to work pretty well.

 

[cekim]

I don't think the answer to stopping drugs from getting across the border is more money. You ever watch Border Wars? The "I didn't know it was there" excuse seems to work pretty well.

You stop the cross border traffic by allowing domestic production. You remove the criminal element and the high profit margins through legalization and competition.

You remove the militarization of foreign/domestic gangs and drug/war lords by removing the economics incentive to do so (and the money from the previously mentioned profit margins to accomplish it).

You'd have thought we would have learned this lesson from prohibition - instead we just shifted the focus of dumb policy over to a different bogeyman...

I've never used illegal drugs, nor do I have any desire to do so even if legalized, but this madness and needs to stop.

 

[travis]

Yeah, but unlike Oxycontin, or even non-controlled substances like alcohol, a person won't directly kill themselves by smoking an excess amount of pot. Even though pot is illegal at the federal level, this conversation is about people who are legal users of it for medicinal purposes being denied their second amendment right, even though people who are prescribed much more dangerous drugs (such as oxy, vicodin, percocet, etc - which are also illegal at the federal level and carry steeper penalties for mere possession than marijuana does) do not have this same issue.

That was one of my points there is no such thing as "legal" pot. States law can be stricter then fed but can not lessen it or negate it. Hence pot is Illegal no if's and's or but's. Until the FEDERAL government legalizes it then it remains illegal and the ATF can and has gone into " state legal" pot stores and charges all with federal drug crimes. There are no "legal " users of marijuana only ones the federal government has not yet decided to go after.

As for the dose these are a requirement for all legally prescribed drugs. this is not possible with marijuana unless it is farmed and or mixed to a certain drug content. FYI people have died from to much marijuana. The number one way to do this is by eating the drug in foods something many of the "legal shops" profess as a great way to get the drug as ingesting is in fact the way to get the most out of the the drug in the plant. The problem is that when ingested the effects can take much longer to take effect thus causing the person using it to eat more and more then when it does take effect the person has had a massive overdose. This in fact is not that uncommon is is the number one way people die from marijuana overdoses.

 

[Maxpower]

You stop the cross border traffic by allowing domestic production. You remove the criminal element and the high profit margins through legalization and competition.

You remove the militarization of foreign/domestic gangs and drug/war lords by removing the economics incentive to do so (and the money from the previously mentioned profit margins to accomplish it).

You'd have thought we would have learned this lesson from prohibition - instead we just shifted the focus of dumb policy over to a different bogeyman...

I've never used illegal drugs, nor do I have any desire to do so even if legalized, but this madness and needs to stop.

You are preaching to the choir.

 

[josh2600]

Not all drinkers drive ( so no drunk driving ) , but can become drunk, yet still have a license
Not all smokers drive ( so no stoned driving ) , but this law denies smokers licensing (and/or possession)

you realize i'm arguing that this is ridiculous, yes? please see prior posts.

 

[Dench]

you cant smoke pot and get high, but you can drink alcohol and get drunk (just not to much).


Right....

 

[DoubleDoeHoe]

Not all drinkers drive ( so no drunk driving ) , but can become drunk, yet still have a license
Not all smokers drive ( so no stoned driving ) , but this law denies smokers licensing (and/or possession)

One is apparently according to the .fed not a right (driving)

One is a proven, certified and set in stone right (gun ownership)

Now it makes even more sense.

 

[Maxpower]

you cant smoke pot and get high, but you can drink alcohol and get drunk (just not to much).


Right....

Love or hate Joe Rogan, but he pretty much nails why reefer is outlawed.

 

[Spanz]

THe obvious solution: Grow pot legally but require the tax stamp. Make the tax stamps expensive but freely available. Use the collected tax money to set up the fence with manned machine gun nests along the border. Clearly post warning signs in multiple languages. Shoot at anyone climbing over who is not a minor.