Massachusetts LTC in Vehicle

AHM said:
The snotty brain trust at Audit the Audit troll pest analysis channel are
FR World-Class Super Cucks about immediately screaming
"I have a gun and I know how to use it" at even the most routine traffic stops
in no Duty to Inform jurisdictions. I've seen two separate examples,
and the millennium is young.
Click to expand...
Oops; forgot to write that little "no" there.
[shocked]

namedpipes said:
I'll confess I've given this same advice (ending however with recommending they hold the gun out the window pointing in a safe direction). The recipients have usually just asked a supremely omicron question. At least this one... well... it wasn't the best thought out, but it does at least raise the real question of "what does direct control" mean.
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I wasn't advising against crossing your fingers in a Duty to Inform state.

I'd probably go with "both hands firmly gripping the wheel",
and no attempt to fish out wallet
if pulled over while packing in one of those places.
 
DavidC77 said:
Yup, as soon as you leave the vehicle and leave the gun it then becomes under control of who is left in the vehicle...

I found this out because my wife did not have a LTC, so she would have gotten in trouble if I left my gun...

She went and got her LTC, and she was then covered...
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Damn! Didn’t realize that. Good heads up. I figured that vehicle scenario is no different that your shit locked up at home. 👍🏻
 
SgtHal75 said:
Damn! Didn’t realize that. Good heads up. I figured that vehicle scenario is no different that your shit locked up at home. 👍🏻
Click to expand...
Nothing to realize here - his statements are wrong.
A gun that is locked away is under no one’s control. His wife would have been perfectly fine in the vehicle without an LTC with his gun locked and only him having a key.
 
SgtHal75 said:
Damn! Didn’t realize that. Good heads up. I figured that vehicle scenario is no different that your shit locked up at home. 👍🏻
Click to expand...
Whenever your gun is not on your direct control it is considered stored (not talking about transporting high capacity rifles or shotguns)
It doesn't matter if it's in a car or your house - put it in a safe and legally you are fine.
 
hpm said:
Nothing to realize here - his statements are wrong.
A gun that is locked away is under no one’s control. His wife would have been perfectly fine in the vehicle without an LTC with his gun locked and only him having a key.
Click to expand...
Thank you. This is what I thought. I wonder if he got jammed up on some BS?…
 
SgtHal75 said:
Damn! Didn’t realize that. Good heads up. I figured that vehicle scenario is no different that your shit locked up at home. 👍🏻
Click to expand...
Also take into account the path he’s headed down. Any visitor in your home would also need an LTC. Dog walker stops by to grab the dog while you’re at work? Illegal possession!
 
I am genuinely curious what would happen if a MA resident who does not have an LTC/FID is stopped while driving a vehicle with an unloaded gun in a locked container inside the car.
 
Buck F said:
I am genuinely curious what would happen if a MA resident who does not have an LTC/FID is stopped while driving a vehicle with an unloaded gun in a locked container inside the car.
Click to expand...
Driver doesn't have a key.
Cop doesn't have a key.
How does he know whether it's got a gun or your boss's dirty laundry inside?
 
Buck F said:
I am genuinely curious what would happen if a MA resident who does not have an LTC/FID is stopped while driving a vehicle with an unloaded gun in a locked container inside the car.
Click to expand...
Guess first question is, how are police made aware? That probably impacts the outcome significantly.

Also imagine:
“If this isn’t your gun, how’d it get here?”
“My friend with an LTC put it in my car and left it here…”
“Ok, well that doesn’t sound like an action someone suitable takes…”

I can’t see that situation ending well for multiple people, even if no one is arrested.
 
Buck F said:
I am genuinely curious what would happen if a MA resident who does not have an LTC/FID is stopped while driving a vehicle with an unloaded gun in a locked container inside the car.
Click to expand...

EddieA said:
Driver doesn't have a key.
Cop doesn't have a key.
How does he know whether it's got a gun or your boss's dirty laundry inside?
Click to expand...

MAJoe said:
Guess first question is, how are police made aware? That probably impacts the outcome significantly.

Also imagine:
“If this isn’t your gun, how’d it get here?”
“My friend with an LTC put it in my car and left it here…”
“Ok, well that doesn’t sound like an action someone suitable takes…”

I can’t see that situation ending well for multiple people, even if no one is arrested.
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase it then: Let's assume for the case of argument that it's a legitimate traffic stop where in the normal course of traffic stop procedure the cop notices a locked container which may contain a firearm. Perhaps it's a rifle shaped case or has a common firearm brand on it, recognizes the S&W blue pistol case or a Glock case, etc. Cop asks driver if any firearms in vehicle or if driver has LTC/FID card. Driver does not have LTC/FID card. Driver is only occupant of vehicle, firearm is stored correctly. Does driver get charged for being in possession of firearm?
 
Buck F said:
Let me rephrase it then: Let's assume for the case of argument that it's a legitimate traffic stop where in the normal course of traffic stop procedure the cop notices a locked container which may contain a firearm. Perhaps it's a rifle shaped case or has a common firearm brand on it, recognizes the S&W blue pistol case or a Glock case, etc. Cop asks driver if any firearms in vehicle or if driver has LTC/FID card. Driver does not have LTC/FID card. Driver is only occupant of vehicle, firearm is stored correctly. Does driver get charged for being in possession of firearm?
Click to expand...
There is a difference between being arrested for illegal possession, being charged with illegal possession and being found guilty of illegal possession. I would say in the case above almost all MA LEOs would arrest the driver for illegal possession, most MA DAs would charge the driver with illegal possession, and probably a majority of the Jurys (or Judges if the defendant goes for a bench trial) would find the defendant guilty of illegal possession.

The point is, if you are arrested, you are normally in for a very costly legal battle. The cops may not know the details of the law, but once they decide to arrest you, you are pretty screwed even if you are innocent. Unless it is an egregious mistake on the LEO’s part, just to get a DA to drop the charge is going to cost you time and money. It might not be “Just” but that’s the way it is.
 
Buck F said:
Let me rephrase it then: Let's assume for the case of argument that it's a legitimate traffic stop where in the normal course of traffic stop procedure the cop notices a locked container which may contain a firearm. Perhaps it's a rifle shaped case or has a common firearm brand on it, recognizes the S&W blue pistol case or a Glock case, etc. Cop asks driver if any firearms in vehicle or if driver has LTC/FID card. Driver does not have LTC/FID card. Driver is only occupant of vehicle, firearm is stored correctly. Does driver get charged for being in possession of firearm?
Click to expand...
I concur with the comment above mine. That situation doesn’t sound like one a driver is going to win on the side of the road, and I guess would be arrested and charged.
 
Buck F said:
Let me rephrase it then: Let's assume for the case of argument that it's a legitimate traffic stop where in the normal course of traffic stop procedure the cop notices a locked container which may contain a firearm. Perhaps it's a rifle shaped case or has a common firearm brand on it, recognizes the S&W blue pistol case or a Glock case, etc. Cop asks driver if any firearms in vehicle or if driver has LTC/FID card. Driver does not have LTC/FID card. Driver is only occupant of vehicle, firearm is stored correctly. Does driver get charged for being in possession of firearm?
Click to expand...
This is where STFU, do not consent comes in handy.

If the driver is lucky, police will continue with a search and there is a chance it will get tossed because the police had an opportunity to secure the container from tampering and secure it while obtaining a warrant. Likewise, defendant can weaken his position if he admits anything - as "knowing" (s)he possessed the gun is a required component of the offense according to the model jury instructions in MA.
 
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Rob Boudrie said:
This is where STFU, do not consent comes in handy.

If the driver is lucky, police will continue with a search and there is a chance it will get tossed because the police had an opportunity to secure the container from tampering and secure it while obtaining a warrant. Likewise, defendant can weaken his position if he admits anything - as "knowing" (s)he possessed the gun is a required component of the offense according to the model jury instructions in MA.
Click to expand...

View: https://youtu.be/sgWHrkDX35o
 
Not reading the whole thread to see if it was mentioned already - carrying a loaded SBR in your vehicle or on the street is completely legal. Prove me wrong. 😂

Edit: assuming valid LTC.
 
LKE21 said:
Not reading the whole thread to see if it was mentioned already - carrying a loaded SBR in your vehicle or on the street is completely legal. Prove me wrong. 😂

Edit: assuming valid LTC.
Click to expand...
True, since an SBR meets the definition of "firearm" under MGL and is not a rifle or shotgun.

An AOW short barrel shotgun would as well, for example a Serbu Super Shorty (not available in MA due to the handgun (firearms) list, but one could legally move in with or inherit one provided the BATFE did not deny the change of address covered by the registration. It has to be an originally manufactured SBS and sawed off shotguns are banned in MA.

Whether or not either is wise from a tactical, practicality or suitability perspective is up for the individual to decide for him/her/it self.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
I was not aware that USCCA provided legal consults for persons not facing charges or potential charges relating to an incident.
Click to expand...
I never said I called USCCA, what I meant by what I said is, One: if you have USCCA they assign you a local gun lawyer, you could then contact that lawyer... Two: If you don't have USCCA and you have your own gun lawyer you could contact him/her...
 
SgtHal75 said:
Great point. I do have one of those under the seat lockable safes with a cable lock that runs throigh the chassis of the seat as well. This is for when you absolutely, positively find yourself driving to one of those places where you cannot carry. I believe this will suffice to if there were other members in the car that didn’t have an LTC.👍🏻
Click to expand...
Correct
 
free said:
What the hell ???
Click to expand...
EDIT: The person in the vehicle becomes the "person in control of the weapon"... If that person does not have a license they are in trouble if a LEO checks the vehicle... Or you can put it in a vehicle safe or lock box... (sorry, when I read that the 1st time I thought he said "glove box"...

Plus, in my original post I never said anything about the gun being stored in a safe or lock box...
Everyone is misreading it and thinking I said something about a safe or lock box...
 
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