Marines Replacing SAW`S

[Dench]

IIRC, the "sustained" rate of fire was 6 to 9 round bursts on both. so swapping out the SAWs for a lighter MG with 100rd drums would NOT affect that capability too much.

Yes, I remember the "I need a burst" quote when you fire it to keep the firing rate low.

This new rifle fills a role that is technically already filled, the M4A1.

I never carried a SAW on a patrol, but yes they are heavy. I also remember the locals in the Balkans say that people were afraid of the SAW because of its size and appearance. I love that physological edge right there, and hell 800 rounds coming out of one spot doesnt hurt either.

But I'll tell you what, if you gave an excellent shooter the M27, I could see how it would fill a niche of rapid well aimed fire for a squad to have as opposed to supressive fire that the SAW provides.

 

[cekim]

But I'll tell you what, if you gave an excellent shooter the M27, I could see how it would fill a niche of rapid well aimed fire for a squad to have as opposed to supressive fire that the SAW provides.

They are just adapting to their upcoming role supporting TSA activity... [sad2]

 

[TheFaz]

I don't know how the Marines do it, but our platoons went out with a weapons squad with a 240B and a 60mm mortar. So having IARs instead of 249s isn't going to speed up the movement of the platoon. I don't know any of our guys who would have traded their 249 for an IAR with a 30 rd mag, even when they did complain about humping it.

 

[Boghog1]

why not dual water cooled m16s

 

[ChevyGuy91]

why not dual water cooled m16s

I see what you did here, you just cornered a whole new market.

 

[drgrant]

why not dual water cooled m16s

RED JACKET!!!!!

 

[z0mbi]

why not dual water cooled m16s

How about an M16 mounted on the rail of an M4 for twice the firepower?

 

[rwl1955]

I carried a pig for 5 years. I'd have been embarrassed to carry a saw.

*******
I`d take a SAW over a pig any day. The M60 was old and unreliable.
My pig story is we were on a training mission to assault a bridge and I was the M60 gunner. I humped that POS plus 1000rds of blank ammo for miles thru the woods. I get to our suppressive fire, overwatch position and set up for the assault. I load the pig and wait for the signal to lay down suppressive fire. It`s pitch dark and I get the signal so I pull the trigger and here "bang". One round. I pull the handle back and squeeze the trigger again and "bang". WTF? I keep doing this for a few seconds and finally lock the bolt to the rear, and clear the feed tray. I`m trying to figure out why this POS won`t fire on auto so I start checking the barrel and find out the blank adapter is missing. My first shot blew the blank adapter off the muzzle, relegating my M60 to a single shot 7.62 rifle. I was so pissed I humped that bitch and all that ammo for nothing. Yes, I did tighten the blank adapter before we moved out.

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

I`m not convinced a mag fed gun can replace a belt fed weapon.
OOPS, forgot the link.
http://www.military.com/news/articl...-with-automatic-rifle.html?ESRC=reservists.nl

Not to mention that in an emergency situation the saws can be loaded with the AR style magazines which make them even more flexible. What i dont understand is why are you gonna replace a Squad level LMG with a assault rifle. If you are gonna do that why not just replace all the M16s and M4s with them. I dont understand this logic.

 

[Lamina]

If they developed a more reliable version of the Beta C mag, and beefed up the mag catch to take the extra weight, I could see this filling a sorta half way role well.

 

[Dench]

If they developed a more reliable version of the Beta C mag, and beefed up the mag catch to take the extra weight, I could see this filling a sorta half way role well.

The barrels arent made for that type of firing. The entire idea of a dedicated machine gun is that it has the ability to change barrels out super fast, not to mention MG barrels are typically much larger then assault rifle ones.

 

[M1911]

The barrels arent made for that type of firing. The entire idea of a dedicated machine gun is that it has the ability to change barrels out super fast, not to mention MG barrels are typically much larger then assault rifle ones.

That's what I was thinking. There is a reason that MGs are bigger and heavier than rifles -- they need to be.

 

[cekim]

That's what I was thinking. There is a reason that MGs are bigger and heavier than rifles -- they need to be.

The question is how many times does a barrel get changed out on a patrol? (I have a number in mind from comments I've heard, but no .mil experience to say myself...)

 

[Dench]

The question is how many times does a barrel get changed out on a patrol? (I have a number in mind from comments I've heard, but no .mil experience to say myself...)

You only replace it if its over heating or ruined.

Whats the number you have in your head?

 

[cekim]

You only replace it if its over heating or ruined.

Whats the number you have in your head?

Not from my head, but from comments of those deployed -> ZERO

 

[Dench]

Not from my head, but from comments of those deployed -> ZERO

I would say its very rare in todays style of combat. We arent fighting another professional army, so huge amounts of fire power arent often needed against small targets, mostly because the bad guys get obliterated quick because they are not professional soldiers.

where you do see a lot of sustained fire is in training, and after a belt fired fast, you really want to change that barrel out. I've seen 3 SAWs with their hand guards on fire, which then melted plastic onto the barrel and the receiver making the barrel stuck on the weapon.

 

[wolf223]

if you fire it full auto for about 400 rounds the barrel will get hot. push it further and it will start to glow.

hence the 6 to 9rd bursts. the barrel swap is easy, not so much when it's hot. you have to break out the gloves, and you have to get the head space and timing right - IIRC for the 249, 240 and M2... it's been a while though. i'm going off memory.

also, the gloves supplied in the spare barrel bag are junk. an oven mit would work better.

 

[Dench]

if you fire it full auto for about 400 rounds the barrel will get hot. push it further and it will start to glow.

hence the 6 to 9rd bursts. the barrel swap is easy, not so much when it's hot. you have to break out the gloves, and you have to get the head space and timing right - IIRC for the 249, 240 and M2... it's been a while though. i'm going off memory.

also, the gloves supplied in the spare barrel bag are junk. an oven mit would work better.

Only the M2 needs to be head spaced and timed, the 240 and 249 just swap the barrels out. also, the saw has a handle built into the barrel so you dont need gloves. I cant remember if the 240 has that.

there are also new M2's that have fast swap barrels requiring no head space and timing. the Swedish Army had them in Kosovo.

 

[crazymjb]

They are in fact being issued. The gunners love them, even though they are expected to carry much more ammo than the rest of the fire team. In Afghanistan weight savings seems like its going to be the name of the game. Plate carriers, 4-6 mags, etc, so I can understand where they are coming from with lighter weapons, especially if they spread load the mags. The problem is regular P-mags don't fit, and there seems to be some issue with the rate of fire and feeding from mags without an improved follower. The gun itself works beautifully, mag issues aside. Hopefully I'll be able to give a more comprehensive review in a few months. With regard to being in a training environment, however, our gunners love them.

You don't need gloves to swap a 240 barrel, but its general good practice to wear some sort of low profile gloves. They are also required PPE.

Mike

 

[Lip]

*******
I`d take a SAW over a pig any day. The M60 was old and unreliable.
My pig story is we were on a training mission to assault a bridge and I was the M60 gunner. I humped that POS plus 1000rds of blank ammo for miles thru the woods. I get to our suppressive fire, overwatch position and set up for the assault. I load the pig and wait for the signal to lay down suppressive fire. It`s pitch dark and I get the signal so I pull the trigger and here "bang". One round. I pull the handle back and squeeze the trigger again and "bang". WTF? I keep doing this for a few seconds and finally lock the bolt to the rear, and clear the feed tray. I`m trying to figure out why this POS won`t fire on auto so I start checking the barrel and find out the blank adapter is missing. My first shot blew the blank adapter off the muzzle, relegating my M60 to a single shot 7.62 rifle. I was so pissed I humped that bitch and all that ammo for nothing. Yes, I did tighten the blank adapter before we moved out.

I carried a pig from 86 - 91 she ran like silk. Almost cried like a baby when they took the pig from me and gave me a 203.

 

[schnips]

addressing the issue of changing the barrel. You would think that someone would develop an AR style upper with a quick-change barrel