Magpul on the Naughty List

[ISOTOX]

Capitalism! But why say somthing you have no intention of following through with.....Is anyone really suprised with MAGPUL rolling over to the man? Nope!

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I like their magpul followers and thats the only product of theirs that I've ever bought and it was way back when. Not another dime from me now.

Vector Arms screwed me on shipping charges to ship back their defective product years ago and they lost $30K+ of my business over time.

Vote with your pocketbooks, its about the only real choice you have anymore.

There's a line between capitalism and statism and magpul has shown their true colors.

 

[Serapis]

It's not their business model's responsibility to support your political views.

That's not a good way to make money. "LEOs First" is a Marketing campaign/stunt. If you guys don't see this, then stop thinking about it.

This. I agree with this to a point. Atvs one point their business model will have to incorporate political stances just because of the nature of business thru are in.

 

[Lowbird]

Yup, caring about fighting men having proper tools is feeding the beast when their superiors will just purchase a similar but inferior product for them to fight with.

Yeah, we totally have to **** Magpul over on this.

My issue is not with the military sales.
This is not going to stop me from buying 10 round pmags when I can. They make a good product.

They put their company out as the face of a movement. If your going to punish NY and other states stupid enough to follow. Do it. Until the politicians back off.

As a business owner I completely understand the move. The product will probably end up in the state anyway.

The fast tracking of products to people who would arrest you for owning the same thing is what I have an issue with.

 

[Nicole]

It's not their business model's responsibility to support your political views.

That's not a good way to make money. "LEOs First" is a Marketing campaign/stunt. If you guys don't see this, then stop thinking about it.

No, it's not. It is their business model's responsibility not to make their customers hate them and boycott them. Whether or not that will happen is up to the customers. Free market.

If your marketing is offensive or distasteful to people, they may stop buying. If enough stop buying, then your marketing was a fail.

 

[atilla]

It's not their business model's responsibility to support your political views.

every boycott X company thread can be boiled down to this.

No, it's not. It is their business model's responsibility not to make their customers hate them and boycott them. Whether or not that will happen is up to the customers. Free market.

If your marketing is offensive or distasteful to people, they may stop buying. If enough stop buying, then your marketing was a fail.

free-market promoting lady also speaks the troof.

i'm just pissed because i just zeroed the BUIS on my girlfriend's rifle and put on the AFG2. what am i gonna replace it with if i end up having to take it all off, douse in lighter fluid, burn, and then pee on?

 

[Rico]

For me, the bigger issue is that they have told the state they will take their jobs and re-locate. The prospect of big time jobs losses will give a politician more pause than their police not being able to buy 30 round magazines will.

 

[Nicole]

Yup, caring about fighting men having proper tools is feeding the beast when their superiors will just purchase a similar but inferior product for them to fight with.

Yeah, we totally have to **** Magpul over on this.

Military =/= cops. Cops are not "fighting men." No more than any other civilian. Or at least they shouldn't be. And if they are, then who, pray tell is the opposing force?

- - - Updated - - -

i'm just pissed because i just zeroed the BUIS on my girlfriend's rifle and put on the AFG2. what am i gonna replace it with if i end up having to take it all off, douse in lighter fluid, burn, and then pee on?

Pardon, but don't you have an HS Precision stock to do that to FIRST? HS Precision is way more eviler.

 

[not new guy]

Yup, caring about fighting men having proper tools is feeding the beast when their superiors will just purchase a similar but inferior product for them to fight with.

Yeah, we totally have to **** Magpul over on this.

LEOs = "fighting men"?

 

[exo]

Pardon, but don't you have an HS Precision stock to do that to FIRST? HS Precision is way more eviler.

Yeah, I thought HS Precision was all pleased as punch that one of the ATF murderers (Waco? Ruby Ridge? I forget now) used their product.

 

[atilla]

Pardon, but don't you have an HS Precision stock to do that to FIRST? HS Precision is way more eviler.

Yeah, I thought HS Precision was all pleased as punch that one of the ATF murderers (Waco? Ruby Ridge? I forget now) used their product.

%100 true on both counts. saving dollars for the replacement. those things are god. damn. expensive.

 

[beaker]

Right, so Magpul and Sig should go out of business to suit your political goals and objectives. They've already said they will move their entire company out of Colorado based on LOCAL political bullshit (which I think they will probably do), which is a massive cost and disruption to their business. It will tie up a LOT OF CASH while they do it as well. How much more commitment to the cause do you expect out of them? I guarantee they have already done far more substantial work behind the scenes than any 100 of their critics in this thread. You would have them shut the doors, take their ball and go home? They can't do anything unless they have a thriving business. Come on folks, think about it...

 

[JayMcB]

My AR had magpus furniture on it when I bought it. That horse is out of the barn...but they certainly aren't getting MORE of my money or business.

 

[Nicole]

Right, so Magpul and Sig should go out of business to suit your political goals and objectives. They've already said they will move their entire company out of Colorado based on LOCAL political bullshit (which I think they will probably do), which is a massive cost and disruption to their business. It will tie up a LOT OF CASH while they do it as well. How much more commitment to the cause do you expect out of them? I guarantee they have already done far more substantial work behind the scenes than any 100 of their critics in this thread. You would have them shut the doors, take their ball and go home? They can't do anything unless they have a thriving business. Come on folks, think about it...

I will wait until I can go digging before deciding if I am pissed at them, but there is a huge difference between continuing to sell to cops in a ban state and fast-tracking products to cops in a ban state IMO.

 

[MetalgodZ]

Military =/= cops. Cops are not "fighting men." No more than any other civilian. Or at least they shouldn't be. And if they are, then who, pray tell is the opposing force?

+1 to you, ma'am.

Pardon, but don't you have an HS Precision stock to do that to FIRST? HS Precision is way more eviler.

I have one that was purchased as standard equipment on a particular rifle prior to finding out about their endorsements.

Sucks...'cause it's a REALLY NICE stock. Kevlar stock, aluminum bedding, perfect feel...What the heck else is out there that is that nice?

Yeah, I thought HS Precision was all pleased as punch that one of the ATF murderers (Waco? Ruby Ridge? I forget now) used their product.

Ruby Ridge. Lon Horiuchi.

Edit: Actually, both RR and Waco.

 

[Broc]

Everyone here needs to change their W2 so you can owe as much money as possible to the gov, and then dont pay it.
In the end, you are all supporting the gov.

 

[calsdad]

. . . our Distributors are allowed to sell to LEOs in ban states. Our founder has also said regarding LEO restrictions, “We have not considered such a move as we are not convinced that this tactic will have any effect on those in power (they will just buy Israeli or some other generic parts). It also adversely punishes street cops, local sheriffs and individual military members for the actions of those in power. The last thing we want to do is hurt those who support our cause.”

So, we see that we can support Law Enforcement and Military members while standing up for our convictions and will continue to do everything in our power to protect our inherent rights.

God forbid! Yeah we should totally drag them over the coals because they don't tow the party line 100%.

The hard cold truth of the matter is that all those cops and sheriffs and so forth - ARE THE AGENTS OF THOSE WHO ARE IN POWER. And they carry out the laws and the orders handed down by those in power. Until WE ALL start holding those in power accountable - then this shit is going to continue.

That means WE need to start voting in better representatives - and MAGPUL - needs to stop selling to them.

Magpul has already said that most of their sales are to "civilians" - so what this also means is that WE need to put an immediate halt to buying anything from Magpul.

This pisses me off because I was hoping to pick up a bunch of their 10rd mags when they come out - and I have a few AR I want to build - using Magpul stuff.

But I also have a safe full of guns - so it's not like I NEED TO go out and buy Magpul stuff just to build up some more guns - which I won't be taking with me anyway if the S really hits the F.

That whole "buy Israeli" thing is just bullshit. It's an excuse. So what if the LEO's buy Israeli? Let them. That just gives us one more thing to bury them with. The headlines can read " US Goverment agencies refuse to spend money at US companies".

Publish that one and the government will have yet another shitstorm on their hands.

We have ended up where we have ended up because all along the line people have refused to push back and apply pressure to people and organizations where pressure NEEDED to be applied. So the shit has just continued - and gotten worse - and gotten cemented into "the way things are".

The only way that changes - is by making hard choices. Magpul just pussied out. They need to pay a price for that. Don't be a pussy too.

 

[crazymjb]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt as they have done A LOT for gun rights the past few months... if they don't uproot from CO like they promised then we'll see.

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[calsdad]

Yeah, I suppose so. I thought that existing thread might have been relevant enough. Guess not.

There's so much going on right now that it's getting hard to dodge the multiple pieces of shit that fly by every day.

Catchy thread title says it all. Simple fact of the matter is that not everybody reads every thread - every day.

You want to catch people's attention - make a new thread and give it a catchy title. It's marketing and newspaper sales 101.

 

[calsdad]

It's not their business model's responsibility to support your political views.

That's not a good way to make money. "LEOs First" is a Marketing campaign/stunt. If you guys don't see this, then stop thinking about it.

Absolutely true.

But if you continue to send your money off to company that supports your "betters" over you - then that's your own goddam fault when the jackboots show up at your house and kill your dog with 30 rounds - when you are only allowed 7 - isn't it?

Magpul makes more money from civilian sales than it does LEO. That's the one truth that needs to be remembered here. That means the means to solve this problem is in YOUR hands - and my HANDS.

The money will decide this issue - if you MAKE IT TALK.

 

[atilla]

What the heck else is out there that is that nice?

mcmillan... for like $600-900.

goddamn base rifle only cost me $800!

 

[mousegunfan]

......

 

[PaulD]

Right, so Magpul and Sig should go out of business to suit your political goals and objectives. They've already said they will move their entire company out of Colorado based on LOCAL political bullshit (which I think they will probably do), which is a massive cost and disruption to their business. It will tie up a LOT OF CASH while they do it as well. How much more commitment to the cause do you expect out of them? I guarantee they have already done far more substantial work behind the scenes than any 100 of their critics in this thread. You would have them shut the doors, take their ball and go home? They can't do anything unless they have a thriving business. Come on folks, think about it...

CO has banned the products they make and so far as I know, not given any exemption to them. That means that producing and handling those products in CO is a felony for everyone at the company. They don't have a choice but to move.

That said, on the surface, selling mags to LE in ban states is very disappointing.

Further, not buying from a company because you don't like their business practices is perfectly consistent with a free market. I also guarantee Magpul hasn't done more for 2A rights in the state of MA than I have.

 

[calsdad]

This. I agree with this to a point. Atvs one point their business model will have to incorporate political stances just because of the nature of business thru are in.

EVERYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN POLITICIZED.

Ignoring that reality will only continue to screw us over.

This all needs to change - but until we get back to a country that is run something like the Republic the founders envisioned - if you don't play with the politics - you're simply going to lose.

Our Unhealthy Politicized Society by William L. Anderson

I have never been to Amherst, Massachusetts, and have not seen the campus of the University of Massachusetts, and the same can be said of most readers of this commentary. Neither do I know any students or faculty members at UMass, and do not foresee that state of affairs changing anytime soon.

This past week, however, a student columnist for the UMass student newspaper wrote a column about a U.S. soldier named Pat Tillman, who died in action in Afghanistan April 22. The student wrote that Tillman, who gave up a very promising career as an NFL defensive back to enlist following the September 11 attacks, was no hero, but rather was a sap. Tillman, the student charged, "Got what he deserved."

Whether or not Tillman was a hero or a misguided grunt is not for me to declare in this commentary. One can admire the man's devotion to duty and the internal drive that pushed an undersized athlete who was ignored by the NFL scouts into a professional football all-star. Furthermore, I wish there were more Pat Tillmans in this world, overachievers who in the course of their activities provide leadership for those who seem to achieve less with more.

Tillman is not the subject of this analysis. Instead, I am choosing to examine the reaction to the student's column, and to apply that reaction to what I think is the most terminal disease that our modern society has produced, and has been producing for a long time: politicization of nearly everything.

Anyone who follows the news in even a cursory manner has been aware of the reaction to the student's unfortunate column. The CNN website listed it and the reaction of the Umass president (he condemned the column) as one of the top stories in the news. While I do not have television reception in my home, I suspect that it was bandied about on all of the nation's talk shows, television and radio. The student, who a few days ago was about as obscure as anyone could be, suddenly has become a subject of national conversation. His apology to Tillman's family made national headlines, and no doubt people will remember him for a long time as a man who "besmirched" the reputation of an "American hero."

However, I tend to see this entire incident not as an "injustice" made right, but rather as a symptom of the larger sickness of American society. Our lives have been hopelessly politicized to the point where every comment, every phrase, and every action is first filtered through the lens of the current political climate.

As one who teaches a diverse group of students, I am quite aware of the possibility that a stray phrase that I might utter could be the subject of national conversation. That is not because I am prominent (which I am not), nor a well-known figure (ditto), but because the octopus-like tentacles of the insistence by many that all statements made in any forum, public or private, be interpreted only in one of the political categories of race, sex, and the like. All that is needed is for either me or one of my students to make a statement (or ask a question) that is deemed "insensitive" to individuals who fit into certain politically-favored categories, and we are off to the races. If knowledge of the "offending utterance" filters out of the classroom and into emails and ultimately the Internet, then the whole thing becomes national news or is the subject of a contrived demonstration. (It is not unusual on college campuses these days to have "candlelight vigils" to protest an alleged insensitive statement, no matter what the circumstances might be, which further publicizes and politicizes the whole thing.)

In a politicized society, things have no meaning unless they can be interpreted (or re-interpreted) in a political light. Does a child bring a gun to school and shoot another student? This is not interpreted as a monstrous act and a tragedy for those involved; no, it becomes the latest hook for the talking heads to argue whether or not the political classes should make it illegal for individuals to own guns.

When a South Carolina woman in 1996 killed her two sons by strapping them into car seats and driving the car into a lake, Newt Gingrich, then House Majority Leader, declared that the incident was a reminder that people should vote Republican in the upcoming election. Nor does the madness stop with how the political classes respond to crimes.

Whenever a drought strikes or it is unusually hot for a few days, Democrats trot out the "global warming" nonsense and insist that it is the fault of Republicans and private enterprise that the weather is not good. Indeed, in the 2000 election, one of Al Gore's platforms was that he would bring us better weather if elected. Thus, even the weather becomes politicized, as though the political classes actually have the power that belongs only to God.

In Boris Pasternak's Nobel-Prize winning book Dr. Zhivago, a group of Red Army soldiers fighting during the Russian Civil War that raged from 1917—1921 are discussing who will be considered the heroes of the cause. The political officer in their midst reminds them that after the war, the heroes will be decided by their political merits, not by how they fought.

George Orwell, who fought alongside Republican soldiers during the Spanish Civil War, wrote in Homage to Catalonia that the publicized heroes of the communist cause usually were the apparatchiks who did almost no fighting, or who bungled their assignments, leading others to die unnecessarily. Ultimately, because communist societies are the ultimate politicized communities, all that matters is who has political power. Merit means nothing, and ability and accomplishments are seen as things to be hated, and those with superior abilities or who have demonstrated superiority at something are determined to be enemies of society.

Take the current assault on private medicine, resurrected in a recent New York Times Magazine article featuring Hillary Clinton. Like Al Gore, Clinton advocates a government takeover of what is left of private medicine, uttering mantras like "universal coverage." Anyone even remotely familiar with government (read that politicized) healthcare knows of the terrible inequities in the system, the long waiting lines, the long-endured suffering that some must bear while waiting for surgery, and the terrible shortages that are the normal course of events in places like Canada.

Yet, the political classes continue to demand that we confiscate the last of private medical practices and turn everything over to the state. They do not insist because they believe that out of this morass will emerge a superior arrangement to a truly private system. No, they are clever enough to realize that if they are successful in this endeavor, then all of us will be dependent upon the Hillary Clintons and their ilk for all of our medical care.

The great fear of the political classes and their allies is being irrelevant. Americans are discovering daily, for example, that the current war in Iraq not only was not necessary, but is increasingly becoming a liability to our own well-being (not to mention the well-being of the Iraqis). Yet, President George W. Bush and those who support the war insist that is being waged ultimately for our welfare — to "protect" us from terrorism, although the clear signs are that it has made us even more vulnerable to attack by Muslims who are outraged at the conduct of the U.S. Armed Forces and are prepared to take out that rage on the rest of us.

For that matter, the "gun control" argument is more about expanding and maintaining the monopoly on "public protection" that the police and political classes have established than about real public safety. For example, in Great Britain, it is illegal for individuals to protect themselves with what the authorities call an "offensive weapon" if they are bodily attacked by others. The upshot is that when burglars break into British homes (even when the owners are home), they simply stand back and permit the robbers to take what they want, given that if they fight back, they most likely will be sentenced to longer prison terms than the criminals themselves (if the police even catch the criminals, which is doubtful).

The British policy — what the political classes here would like us to have — does not exist out of ignorance or a misunderstanding of the nature of crime. Instead, it is a very deliberate reminder to law-abiding citizens that they must depend upon the political classes for everything, including protection, and should they seek to provide that protection themselves, they will be severely punished.

The politicization of society means that the political classes will seek to imprison a Martha Stewart for non-crimes, prattle on and on about Enron's collapse, then lie about the larger issues of war and government spending. The people who demand imprisonment of CEOs of failed companies are the same ones who have created perhaps the greatest fiscal crisis that the U.S. Government has ever faced, lying continuously about the whole affair. It is a crime for individuals to tell government bureaucrats something that those officials do not wish to hear or to "withhold evidence," but it is official government policy for politicians to lie on a regular basis and demand that their own acts and documents remain state secrets.

 

[cbrxx]

Very disappointed!

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

EVERYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN POLITICIZED.

Ignoring that reality will only continue to screw us over.

This all needs to change - but until we get back to a country that is run something like the Republic the founders envisioned - if you don't play with the politics - you're simply going to lose.

*****************************************************************************************************************************


We're not a country anymore, we are an "economy". Nothing stands in the way of people making money anymore, not honor, not integrity, not ethics, certainly not morality, not even life itself as there is no regard for it anymore.

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

Yeah yeah, blah blah. Sure fine cops aren't 'fighting men' it was late when I posted that. They still need the item as well as we do. Yeah the PD are the 'arm' of the power, so what? There's lots of good cops that aren't jbt's and use discretion that I would hope had the right tools. What do you want them to show up with at the next active shooter, a double barreled shotgun?

So, now apparently no one wants magpul selling to the sheriffs or leos that have gone on record that they won't enforce new gun laws? The guys that would likely look the other way in re:to what you personally own? The guys that would appreciate our help if shtf. These are individual sales not dept orders.

This community is far to hair across the ass reactionary. Keep eating our own, you're doing exactly what the proggies want.

EDIT: Magpul has been doing this for years anyways. Where was the outrage then?

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

 

[not new guy]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt as they have done A LOT for gun rights the past few months... if they don't uproot from CO like they promised then we'll see.

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Meh. Their actions in Colorado could be chalked up as being completely self-serving depending on how you look at it.

 

[flintoid]

Absolutely true.

But if you continue to send your money off to company that supports your "betters" over you - then that's your own goddam fault when the jackboots show up at your house and kill your dog with 30 rounds - when you are only allowed 7 - isn't it?

Magpul makes more money from civilian sales than it does LEO. That's the one truth that needs to be remembered here. That means the means to solve this problem is in YOUR hands - and my HANDS.

The money will decide this issue - if you MAKE IT TALK.

Everyone keeps saying that their LEO market profit share is much smaller than civilian. Do you guys have the numbers that support this? Or is it just one of those "hunches" that every internet expert has out there?

Another thing that bugs me about this thread are the people who are assuming that every red blooded gun owner hates the police. Well news flash dumb****s: not everyone is like you. Many, many gun owners blindly love, support, and prop up the law enforcement community. And by showing that they support our "uniformed men" stateside, they're giving them warm fuzzy feelings and thus generating brand equity.

You guys that "have seen the light"- the libertarian, authority hating minority of the public, make up their smallest share of customers.

Wake up and deal with reality, people.


now that I've gotten that off of my chest- I agree with your guys' sentiment: spend your dollars with whom you like. Political views, product quality, etc.

 

[JRyan]

Yup, caring about fighting men having proper tools is feeding the beast when their superiors will just purchase a similar but inferior product for them to fight with.

Yeah, we totally have to **** Magpul over on this.

Yeah, we do. That's the whole ****ing point. Losing civil rights is sort of the baseline we are talking about here after all.