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Magpul on the Naughty List

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atilla said:
that settles it then, we all can't buy from anyone at any time now, ever again.

aren't we all a bit too quick to crucify manufacturers and distributors? i mean cheaper than dirt has always sucked and it was obvious, but some of these other guys are just rolling around DERPing on the floor.
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Not too quick at all.

I shall crucify any company I please, they will know this by my funds going elsewhere. If it means my choices drop from 100 to 5... so be it, the line has been drawn.
 
Steelhorse said:
I can assure you you're waaay higher in turn-around estimation than you think. In my six years of employment I have had one handgun...and that wasn't new when I got it. I believe it was purchased by the dept back in 2001 and, unless they follow suit with other depts recently and upgrade from .40 to .45...I don't see us getting a new armory or pistols anytime soon. And for reference, before the Glocks were purchased in 01ish, they all had S&W 4006s and those were the only pistols had since they retired the revolvers in '90...and to my knowledge most of the revolvers had been maintained since some time in the early 70s before they built the existing PD HQ in 78 (I think).
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Thanks for that. It verifies what I was trying to get across to people - the civilian market is WAY higher for most of these companies than the LEO market is.


I see where you're going with this...and I can understand and appreciate it, but here's the issue with the country today.

I am employed by a city which gets it's funding from both the local budget which is based primarily on property taxes and the state budget which is funded primarily by income taxes as well as federal monies also from income taxes.
So if you either A. work for a living and/or B. own property or C. are retired/disabled having previously contributed to the system then yes, I work for about $2 per working-aged resident in my city (not saying they all work). The problem is almost half of our country doesn't contribute to the system and there's a high number of aide recipients that have NEVER contributed to the system sucking the life out of the financial wallet of our states, cities and towns. Money that could be appropriated elsewhere...and I'm not implying in my pocket, although I HAVE gone four years without a raise and watched my health insurance premium rise exponentially from a city who's mayor publicly totes it as being well off and having over $15M in reserves and growing.

My point is this: YOU don't have to worry about the majority of police officers. Yes, most of us are disgruntled to an extent but who isn't at their job? I have plenty of friends in the private sector that loathe their jobs. Off the top of my head I can only think of maybe two people that actually skip into work. I'm not crying about my job mind you...unlike many beside me I knew full well what I was getting into having grown up with other friend's fathers as police officers. They never sugar-coated it and I benefit from that. YOU are not the one's we abhor. The problem today is the growing number of calls to service or for these teat-suckers that I know you despise as well. Criminal element aside, I respond to more bullshit 'disturbances' to local motels/hotels that have become "shelters" for the homeless and domestic abuse "victims" where all they do is bitch about what the other is doing next door. And I say "victims" because these women are supposed to be there as a refuge from the male party that assaulted them and are required to not have any males present yet the baby-daddy that just smacked the shit out of them last week is now living with them for free on OUR dime. And when I report this to the appropriate authorities involved with the program, I get told that they can't just show up and spot check to find a violation (which would disqualify them and get booted out) because now they change their physical addresses to the hotel which now constitutes as their RESIDENCE which means the program and/or the hotel has to go through housing court to evict them. And they replicate like rabbits teaching the baby rabbits how to abuse the system as they get older...perpetuating the cycle and increasing the amount of draw on our civil finances. I have had many of these third class citizens tell me that I work for them to which I reply, "I don't work for you...I work for those who put money in your entitlement check. The same that bought your big screen TV, your free phone, your xBox, your food and your free healthcare."

It took a shootout with an felon armed and a stolen AR and two stolen handguns to get ARs in our cruisers...and then it was still pulling teeth. I have had to draw down on home invaders and armed robbers that had in their possession homemade SBSs and SBRs more times in the past than I would like to count when I would have loved to have a rifle at my disposal...and sadly our policy states then as it does now that I cannot provide my own for duty. So yes, our hands are tied in the fight against criminals...not law-abiding people.

I don't disagree with drawing a line in the sand....but why can't the line be shipping to all states equally. As a business owner take yourself out of the political equation and ship to every state leaving legalities to the end user. There are a plethora of pre AND post ban 30 rnd mags in the state...and if they're metal only and even the trained eye can't tell the difference if certain components are changed. The law puts the burden of proof on the state, but you have to suffer confiscation and arrest as such. These are laws that we need to change as a people with our votes for our elected officials...a mere '**** you' to the industry does nothing. The majority of these companies shipping hundreds of thousands of these magazines overseas and reap the benefits. They'll stay in business, and with us changing who represents us...so will we.

I understand that effort and the symbolism, but restricting sales to police departments means nothing...that majority of them have the equipment already and won't be buying large quantities if the don't, because Shaniqua, Maria, and Bobbi-Jo are spending the money for us all.
Click to expand...

I understand everything you're saying - and I have heard the same story from friends of mine who are in LE in one capacity or another - and we've seen a bunch of people here in the pages of NES who have said very similar things.

Here's the problem. I believe you - MOST of the LEO's in this country are likely on the side of the "people". However - I think there's also plenty of evidence to say there's a bunch of them who are NOT. Maybe that's just the way things are - you're never going to get a huge bunch of people to all agree perfectly on any subject. That is why tyrannies get formed in the first place - because some group WANTS everybody to agree - they don't - so they just force the issue and MAKE YOU.

Every time one of these gun bans goes thru - there are always exemptions for law enforcement. As plenty of people have already pointed out - if we don't need them - then why does law enforcement?

Well I think part of the answer is this: The politicians THINK that law enforcement needs them for the same reason that the Supreme Court has ruled that the police cannot be sued for failing to "protect" a "civilian". It's because law enforcement is GOVERMENT AGENCY. And as plenty of us have noticed - the police never fail to protect government assets - government employees - etc. , whenever there is a crisis.

Getting companies to refuse to sell to LEO's is an exercise in reigning in the goddam government - who think that they are above us. And the politicians know this - which is why they put the exemptions in in the first place. They politicians don't want the LEO's disarmed - because the LEO's are the ones who will be protecting THEM ( and they likely won't be protecting ME).

If things were different - and I actually thought that the local law enforcement wasn't as likely to come by my house and shoot my dog during a no knock drug raid gone wrong - as they were to show up if a burglar entered my house in the middle of the night and I called 911 - then I would buy you one of those AR's you needed in your cruiser MYSELF (I've got like five of them now - I think if I actually thought the cops were with me instead of more likely than not AGAINST me - I could reason away giving one to outfit a cruiser).

But what would that get me in todays political/social/legal environment? I would likely find myself at the end of that AR at some point in time? What's the point in arming up a government force that is as much a threat to me as anything else I might come across in my life?

This is a bigger problem than what we are even trying to cover in this thread. It's political, social, legal - etc. I don't think we can even start to get it fixed though - until we start reigning in some of the forces that are making life worse for all of us.

I fail to see how continuing to arm up the government's police forces - while civilians are being dis-armed - is doing anything but making things worse for all of us.

In the end the real target of refusing to sell to the police departments - is the politicians - because if they think that the police will not be able to protect them - then maybe they'll think a little bit differently.

Does that put LE in the middle of a shitstorm? - yes it does. Too bad - we're all in the middle of a shitstorm right now. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't make everybody feel the pain.
 
Steelhorse said:
My point is this: YOU don't have to worry about the majority of police officers.
Click to expand...

Like calsdad says, I hear this from my LE friends too. And I believe it.

But I want to see LE's on our side in a tangible, visible way. For example, if the police union or Chiefs of Police said, "enough of this licensing bullsh*t in MA, let's work with GOAL to get it changed." Yeah, I know it sounds absurd, but it's time to join forces. As you point out, the policies of the government who employs you are putting you at increased risk in your job.

There's a group called LEAP (law enforcement against prohibition) that speaks out against the war on drugs. We need

LEAGC = Law Enforcement Against Gun Control
 
calsdad said:
I understand everything you're saying - and I have heard the same story from friends of mine who are in LE in one capacity or another - and we've seen a bunch of people here in the pages of NES who have said very similar things.

Here's the problem. I believe you - MOST of the LEO's in this country are likely on the side of the "people". However - I think there's also plenty of evidence to say there's a bunch of them who are NOT. Maybe that's just the way things are - you're never going to get a huge bunch of people to all agree perfectly on any subject. That is why tyrannies get formed in the first place - because some group WANTS everybody to agree - they don't - so they just force the issue and MAKE YOU.

Every time one of these gun bans goes thru - there are always exemptions for law enforcement. As plenty of people have already pointed out - if we don't need them - then why does law enforcement?

Well I think part of the answer is this: The politicians THINK that law enforcement needs them for the same reason that the Supreme Court has ruled that the police cannot be sued for failing to "protect" a "civilian". It's because law enforcement is GOVERMENT AGENCY. And as plenty of us have noticed - the police never fail to protect government assets - government employees - etc. , whenever there is a crisis.

Getting companies to refuse to sell to LEO's is an exercise in reigning in the goddam government - who think that they are above us. And the politicians know this - which is why they put the exemptions in in the first place. They politicians don't want the LEO's disarmed - because the LEO's are the ones who will be protecting THEM ( and they likely won't be protecting ME).

If things were different - and I actually thought that the local law enforcement wasn't as likely to come by my house and shoot my dog during a no knock drug raid gone wrong - as they were to show up if a burglar entered my house in the middle of the night and I called 911 - then I would buy you one of those AR's you needed in your cruiser MYSELF (I've got like five of them now - I think if I actually thought the cops were with me instead of more likely than not AGAINST me - I could reason away giving one to outfit a cruiser).

But what would that get me in todays political/social/legal environment? I would likely find myself at the end of that AR at some point in time? What's the point in arming up a government force that is as much a threat to me as anything else I might come across in my life?

This is a bigger problem than what we are even trying to cover in this thread. It's political, social, legal - etc. I don't think we can even start to get it fixed though - until we start reigning in some of the forces that are making life worse for all of us.

I fail to see how continuing to arm up the government's police forces - while civilians are being dis-armed - is doing anything but making things worse for all of us.

In the end the real target of refusing to sell to the police departments - is the politicians - because if they think that the police will not be able to protect them - then maybe they'll think a little bit differently.

Does that put LE in the middle of a shitstorm? - yes it does. Too bad - we're all in the middle of a shitstorm right now. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't make everybody feel the pain.
Click to expand...

I agree with the whole of what you're saying. But I feel as if we shouldn't focus on sharing the pain as we should be focusing on alleviating the pain all together. That's something that we as the people can do. The recent uprise in certain states using the bill/law process to show a new fed ban and enforcement of such ban to be illegal has shown this generation something that is not taught in schools anymore...hell, even when I was there...that the Federal Government isn't in place without the unification of the individual states and the states are made up of the municipalities. Everything goes uphill in our government. It all starts with us....screw the electoral college and pot-bellied old hags sitting in office in Washington. We NEED to get proper representation in office and shut the liberal, non-fact checking media up.
 
wacky_doug said:
Like calsdad says, I hear this from my LE friends too. And I believe it.

But I want to see LE's on our side in a tangible, visible way. For example, if the police union or Chiefs of Police said, "enough of this licensing bullsh*t in MA, let's work with GOAL to get it changed." Yeah, I know it sounds absurd, but it's time to join forces. As you point out, the policies of the government who employs you are putting you at increased risk in your job.

There's a group called LEAP (law enforcement against prohibition) that speaks out against the war on drugs. We need

LEAGC = Law Enforcement Against Gun Control
Click to expand...

LEAGC - not catchy enough.

But I agree...if it were possible it would be great. But the Union sucks and only supports what in it's best interest...and that isn't always in the best interest of the police or the general public. Believe me, I'd like to retain my dues...cause I've never used them and with my past four years of 0,0,0,0...they haven't been working for me either.
 
Steelhorse said:
I agree with the whole of what you're saying. But I feel as if we shouldn't focus on sharing the pain as we should be focusing on alleviating the pain all together. That's something that we as the people can do. The recent uprise in certain states using the bill/law process to show a new fed ban and enforcement of such ban to be illegal has shown this generation something that is not taught in schools anymore...hell, even when I was there...that the Federal Government isn't in place without the unification of the individual states and the states are made up of the municipalities. Everything goes uphill in our government. It all starts with us....screw the electoral college and pot-bellied old hags sitting in office in Washington. We NEED to get proper representation in office and shut the liberal, non-fact checking media up.
Click to expand...

I agree but lately, after having talked to a number of state legislators in MA, I'm feeling pretty depressed about the chances.
 
Steelhorse said:
I agree with the whole of what you're saying. But I feel as if we shouldn't focus on sharing the pain as we should be focusing on alleviating the pain all together. That's something that we as the people can do. The recent uprise in certain states using the bill/law process to show a new fed ban and enforcement of such ban to be illegal has shown this generation something that is not taught in schools anymore...hell, even when I was there...that the Federal Government isn't in place without the unification of the individual states and the states are made up of the municipalities. Everything goes uphill in our government. It all starts with us....screw the electoral college and pot-bellied old hags sitting in office in Washington. We NEED to get proper representation in office and shut the liberal, non-fact checking media up.
Click to expand...

Sharing the pain gets people off their butts. It makes them realize they now have "skin in the game" so to speak.

If law enforcement thought that they were going to start getting starved for equipment every time the politicians started going full retard - then I can guarantee you that back room deals and hallway conversations between high level law enforcement officials and politicians would "happen" - and you would likely see (or not see as the case may be) - all sorts of anti gun legislation just quietly fade away thru bureaucratic maneuvering.

There is the "seen" - and the "unseen" , in every situation. Start inflicting pain in the right places - and things change - even if you don't see it happen right out in the open in front of your face.
 
PaulD said:
I agree but lately, after having talked to a number of state legislators in MA, I'm feeling pretty depressed about the chances.
Click to expand...

Which is why we need to hit them where they're vulnerable.

I can almost guarantee that if LE agencies within the state of MA start getting shut off - it will directly up the chain to the legislators.

It's already been talked about here on NES multiple times - about how Chiefs of Police are often just a "political" appointment - and we've all see the press conferences with the antigunners surrounding themselves with cops in uniform - who are more often than not "chiefs" - so fine - if they want to play that game - then play - and make the chiefs pay for their politically calculated positions.

If the officers in the ranks - start breaking ranks because they're being deprived of the tools they think they need to do their jobs - then it will go up the chain and somebody will listen.

Make somebody feel the pain - this is the crucial key to all of human existence - everything revolves around it.

If you are unwilling to inflict pain - where it needs to be inflicted - then you are simply not paying attention to how the circle of life - and politics - operate.
 
calsdad said:
Sharing the pain gets people off their butts. It makes them realize they now have "skin in the game" so to speak.

If law enforcement thought that they were going to start getting starved for equipment every time the politicians started going full retard - then I can guarantee you that back room deals and hallway conversations between high level law enforcement officials and politicians would "happen" - and you would likely see (or not see as the case may be) - all sorts of anti gun legislation just quietly fade away thru bureaucratic maneuvering.

There is the "seen" - and the "unseen" , in every situation. Start inflicting pain in the right places - and things change - even if you don't see it happen right out in the open in front of your face.
Click to expand...

I wonder how long it will be before the politicians try to pass laws that attempt to force companies to do business with the government? Things look more and more like Atlas Shrugged every day.
 
calsdad said:
Sharing the pain gets people off their butts. It makes them realize they now have "skin in the game" so to speak.

If law enforcement thought that they were going to start getting starved for equipment every time the politicians started going full retard - then I can guarantee you that back room deals and hallway conversations between high level law enforcement officials and politicians would "happen" - and you would likely see (or not see as the case may be) - all sorts of anti gun legislation just quietly fade away thru bureaucratic maneuvering.

There is the "seen" - and the "unseen" , in every situation. Start inflicting pain in the right places - and things change - even if you don't see it happen right out in the open in front of your face.
Click to expand...

I like to imagine you'd be right...but with deadbeat Mayors quoting Piers Morgan on Facebook and them being in control of the Chiefs, I don't see it happening. My own mayor stated we were lucky to get the rifles for the vehicles because it was decided by our councilmen and not him. He really backs his police dept...as by evidence of that and our lack of monetary compensation with continued threats to layoff.
 
I'm confused. Those of you who refuse to buy Magpul, does that mean you refuse to buy Smiths or Glocks? Colts? There are ALOT of companies out there that will not stand with us.
 
Serapis said:
I'm confused. Those of you who refuse to buy Magpul, does that mean you refuse to buy Smiths or Glocks? Colts? There are ALOT of companies out there that will not stand with us.
Click to expand...

where as before, i was 100% dead set on Magpul for my AR build, i will now look to other companies, with Magpul being a last resort.
 
Serapis said:
I'm confused. Those of you who refuse to buy Magpul, does that mean you refuse to buy Smiths or Glocks? Colts? There are ALOT of companies out there that will not stand with us.
Click to expand...

Yeah, for me it does. I'll wait, buy used maybe, save up and get more expensive custom shit from people who don't suck, etc. I'm not interested in buying products from people who stab me in the back.
 
I'm betting the feds threatened all of them that they would buy all their firearms and accessories from overseas.
 
Serapis said:
I'm confused. Those of you who refuse to buy Magpul, does that mean you refuse to buy Smiths or Glocks? Colts? There are ALOT of companies out there that will not stand with us.
Click to expand...

Don't be confused. The line in the sand has been drawn. Anyone on the wrong side does not get my business. There are plenty of companies doing the right thing who can serve all my firearms-related needs.
 
Serapis said:
I'm confused. Those of you who refuse to buy Magpul, does that mean you refuse to buy Smiths or Glocks? Colts? There are ALOT of companies out there that will not stand with us.
Click to expand...

Yes to me it does.
 
Big surprise......[rolleyes], they care more about profit than Liberty...Welcome to the new Peoples Republic if America.
 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to calsdad again.


....
I've purchased Magpul before, won't do it in the future if they keep their stance.
 
WallHack said:
Do they offer a LEO discount? What I can't understand is: why would you fast-track discounted mags to LEOs when MILLIONS of people want them at full-retail (or more?)


Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I suppose they are hedging their bets in case a civilian ban is enacted re: magazine capacity. They've invested tons of money in producing magazines, and I'm sure they are doing everything they can to keep LE/.mil happy.
 
Serapis said:
I'm confused. Those of you who refuse to buy Magpul, does that mean you refuse to buy Smiths or Glocks? Colts? There are ALOT of companies out there that will not stand with us.
Click to expand...

And the search for excuses continues .....................

- - - Updated - - -

Steelhorse said:
I like to imagine you'd be right...but with deadbeat Mayors quoting Piers Morgan on Facebook and them being in control of the Chiefs, I don't see it happening. My own mayor stated we were lucky to get the rifles for the vehicles because it was decided by our councilmen and not him. He really backs his police dept...as by evidence of that and our lack of monetary compensation with continued threats to layoff.
Click to expand...

So what would the mayor do if the entire police dept up and quits because they're not getting supported? Maybe he'd go out and hire whatever losers he could find - who would likely be the kind of people would end up abusing the citizens - who would then hopefully toss him out on his ass.

If the system doesn't work - then break the damn thing.
 
calsdad said:
If the system doesn't work - then break the damn thing.
Click to expand...

Nobody is going to break it by boycotting magpul, though.... nobody will care, unless they do something that's particularly heinous, and that's unlikely.

Magpuls position on selling mags to LE is a far cry from zumbo land.

This is the same realm as the people who boycotted HK and Colt for their endless LE fapping. It went nowhere.

-Mike
 
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