MA Towns Suspending Licensing?

[Len-2A Training]

Is says they are "suspending the processing of all LTC applications" . So even if it was mailed in they won't do anything with it?
What's next suspending all the others that are valid?

Shh, don't tempt fate. I would not put it beyond possibility with Faker or EOPS.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Concur - MIRCS is the system of record; therefore recording in MIRCS would be the time of submission.
This is how it currently works and until the SCOTUS changes Chevron, any attack on this process will most likely fail.

The only thing that is certain is that nobody knows for sure as it has never been tested.

 

[Mark from MA]

Shh, don't tempt fate. I would not put it beyond possibility with Faker or EOPS.

Ok.....you people are nuts. They are just getting out of work they don't want to do because of bullshit.

They don't want to work on new applications because its viewed as unneeded social interaction.......and your think they are going to suspend valid licenses? Then what go door to door and create more social interaction? Very negative social interaction I might add.

 

[pastera]

The only thing that is certain is that nobody knows for sure as it has never been tested.

Since the method for extending LTC validity is through MIRCS, that is the most likely method of recording the date of submission - I seriously doubt that the system accepts a submitted date to allow for LE delays in data entry.

I wonder if a FOIA request would produce a useful response on this.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Since the method for extending LTC validity is through MIRCS, that is the most likely method of recording the date of submission - I seriously doubt that the system accepts a submitted date to allow for LE delays in data entry.

I wonder if a FOIA request would produce a useful response on this.

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, however MIRCS is automated to grant or not a grace period based on "date of entry" of the applicant's data into that system. So if PD stacks them up and ignores them for months, there is no grace period until the data gets entered.

The simplest answer for the PDs is accept via Email scanned/signed copy of form (if concerned about germs on paper/in person) or via Snail Mail (per MGL this is acceptable - just PDs have wholesale refused to accept this in the past), and enter the data into the system without the 3rd degree interrogation process. Phone calls will work if additional info is required.

However, reality is that the PDs love "control" but hate doing the work, so they will delay for damn near forever. And they have a perfect excuse now and they aren't about to pass up that opportunity. I think that the courts are shutdown and even if they are operating I'm 105% certain that they will back up the PD in spite of MGL.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, however MIRCS is automated to grant or not a grace period based on "date of entry" of the applicant's data into that system. So if PD stacks them up and ignores them for months, there is no grace period until the data gets entered.

Certainly no easily recognized grace period, and no documentation a dealer will accept. Delivering the application to the PD and then using the "submitted" defense may, emphasis may, be effective. But, even without a renewal, there is a 90 day grace period so we may never get to the point of having the possibility of a test case - and even if we do, that does not mean we will get a test case with a baggage free, but for the license expiration, upstanding subject.

 

[MisterHappy]

It doesn't make anything moot. The chiefs are still in violation of the law and should be held responsible for it. If a chief issues the LTC a year later, he's still in violation of the law.....which stipulates 40 days.......not 60 or 90 or 300 or 365 days.

Thats like saying that an armed bank robber shouldn't be prosecuted for robbing the bank because he walked in an hour later or two days or a year later and returned the money he stole......he still committed armed robbery.

How long does it take to process a concealed carry application?
Within 7 days of receiving an application, a copy must be sent to the colonel of state police. The colonel of the state police will have 30 days to advise the licensing authority of any disqualifying record.
“The licensing authority shall, within 40 days from the date of application, either approve the application and issue the license or deny the application and notify the applicant of the reason for such denial in writing[…]“
Relevant Code(s):
Section 140-131

Notice the word SHALL above......that is not a suggestion......it is an order by the legislature.....your elected officials that represent YOU .......to to the chiefs of police. It is the operative word in the law......SHALL, not might, not must, not may, SHALL.

You're certainly wound up about this....and everyone (or almost, at least) on here, agrees with you.

With regard to the bank robber, they're NOT a bank robber under the law, meerly an alleged bank robber, until they're convicted. Just like the cops are not guilty of ignoring the 40-day requirement until it's adjudicated. And it's exceptionally unlikely that it will ever be brought to trial.

And, there's a reason that there was no penalty appended to the law - the legislators that represent us, fear irritating the cops. That's why ex-cops are often granted the same privileges as on-the-job cops. If there were an actual penalty for not doing their jobs, the law would never have been put on the books. Remember - Staties stole taxpayer money (fake overtime), and it's mostly ignored, except for the payroll records that were "mistakenly" destroyed.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

And, there's a reason that there was no penalty appended to the law - the legislators that represent us, fear irritating the cops. That's why ex-cops are often granted the same privileges as on-the-job cops. If there were an actual penalty for not doing their jobs, the law would never have been put on the books. Remember - Staties stole taxpayer money (fake overtime), and it's mostly ignored, except for the payroll records that were "mistakenly" destroyed.

The Katrina anti-confiscation bill was killed at a point where bills almost never die - because the police notice it contained a penalty if they violated it and had some backroom meetings with legislators.

As to the Staties - note that every instance of malfeasance prosecution of MA elites (Senate presidents getting indicted; Staties getting prosecuted; etc.) comes from the Feds who do not recognize "MA public official immunity".

 

[Darksideblues42]

The Katrina anti-confiscation bill was killed at a point where bills almost never die - because the police notice it contained a penalty if they violated it and had some backroom meetings with legislators.

As to the Staties - note that every instance of malfeasance (Senate presidents getting indicted; Staties getting prosecuted; etc.) comes from the Feds who do not recognize "MA public official immunity"/.

Might be a stupid observation, but on the State's own website, it says that it may take 60 days for the licensing process.

Isn't this a blatant set of misinformation in contravention of the law?

Apply for a firearms license

A firearms license is required to possess or carry firearms in Massachusetts.

www.mass.gov

 

[Rob Boudrie]

process.]
Isn't this a blatant set of misinformation in contravention of the law?

Just because it is in contradiction with the law does not make it disinformation.

NY state solved this with a "speedy pistol permit" law. If your application is not approved or denied within 6 months, the issuing authority must give you a status update on your application.

 

[Uzi2]

You're certainly wound up about this....and everyone (or almost, at least) on here, agrees with you.

With regard to the bank robber, they're NOT a bank robber under the law, meerly an alleged bank robber, until they're convicted. Just like the cops are not guilty of ignoring the 40-day requirement until it's adjudicated. And it's exceptionally unlikely that it will ever be brought to trial.

And, there's a reason that there was no penalty appended to the law - the legislators that represent us, fear irritating the cops. That's why ex-cops are often granted the same privileges as on-the-job cops. If there were an actual penalty for not doing their jobs, the law would never have been put on the books. Remember - Staties stole taxpayer money (fake overtime), and it's mostly ignored, except for the payroll records that were "mistakenly" destroyed.

Yes, you just keep on making excuses for the corrupt government and the police state you live under, that will surely help change things.

I'm not wound up about it, it doesn't affect me in the least. I live in a constitutional carry state and have no restrictions at all as to what I can carry, buy, own or sell or keep, including all NFA....no permission needed, no police overlords looking to deny my rights at every turn and I have statutory laws protecting ME from government over reach. We control or eliminate tyrants here, we don't allow them to run roughshod over people.

See we live under the rule of law not the rule and whims of some corrupt appointed bureaucrat who's only concern is their paycheck and pandering to the whims of the corrupt politicians above them and the laws apply to everyone.

I lived in MA until the very first opportunity arose to vacate that corrupt police state. I was on my way out 20 minutes after selling my house and I wouldn't set foot in it again for love nor money.

Good luck and may your chains of your bondage rest lightly.

 

[JJ4]

Inquired to my town's licensing officer about the grace period and accepting applications in some way even if they were not processed. The response was that he is aware of the requirement for the grace period but unfortunately applications are not being accepted until at least April 1st at which time the chief will reassess.

If I was due to expire I would mail it in anyway certified/RR.

I wonder if something came down from the state or maybe MCOPA decided to do this. All the towns seemed to do it at the same time.

 

[n1oty]

Inquired to my town's licensing officer about the grace period and accepting applications in some way even if they were not processed. The response was that he is aware of the requirement for the grace period but unfortunately applications are not being accepted until at least April 1st at which time the chief will reassess.

If I was due to expire I would mail it in anyway certified/RR.

I wonder if something came down from the state or maybe MCOPA decided to do this. All the towns seemed to do it at the same time.

On the surface, this is starting to appear to be a concerted move by many PD's.

 

[71montess]

A licensing officer in my area told me the Chief didn’t think suspending LTC appointments would be in line with 2A !

 

[jaypap]

Inquired to my town's licensing officer about the grace period and accepting applications in some way even if they were not processed. The response was that he is aware of the requirement for the grace period but unfortunately applications are not being accepted until at least April 1st at which time the chief will reassess.

If I was due to expire I would mail it in anyway certified/RR.

I wonder if something came down from the state or maybe MCOPA decided to do this. All the towns seemed to do it at the same time.

More likely a elected arsehole public servant who likes to overstep their bounds along with politicians who don't believe in constitution.

 

[Matt_SERE]

On the surface, this is starting to appear to be a concerted move by many PD's.

I agree though it may not have started out that way. Never let a crisis go to waste.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

On the surface, this is starting to appear to be a concerted move by many PD's.

Licensing officers have a secret squirrel no civilians allowed email list where they discuss such things. I am not privileged with access to the list, but I would expect them to be sharing info on any licensing issue.

 

[akma]

Well Charlie Baker is going full retard suspending more civil liberties. This is starting to snowball. All to keep us safe.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

A good starting point would be an AGs order that all expired licenses are to be treated as fully valid for all purposes including purchase. After all, she does have the power to make law by fiat.

 

[MisterHappy]

In Ahnold voice: "I like you, Rob. You're funny guy....."

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Watching the gov on video: Charlie Baker: Mass. schools must close Tuesday, no gatherings of over 25, and no dining in

Deadlines on certain RMV document expirations extended; lots of emergency legislation. No word on any action for LTCs.

 

[MisterHappy]

Watching the gov on video: Charlie Baker: Mass. schools must close Tuesday, no gatherings of over 25, and no dining in

Deadlines on certain RMV document expirations extended; lots of emergency legislation. No word on any action for LTCs.

Hold your breath, they'll give the info on that to

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

For GOAL obtaining guidance for its membership pertaining to this matter should be an important task.
I am going to contact the office and politely suggest this, others might consider doing so as well if concerned.

 

[Matt_SERE]

I would love to see someone submit an application to the State Police due to their city/town being 'unable to accept' said application.

 

[JJ4]

Driver's licenses automatically extended.
LTCs? Nothing.

If a civil right is so easily suspended... is it really a right?

 

[Len-2A Training]

I wonder if something came down from the state or maybe MCOPA decided to do this. All the towns seemed to do it at the same time.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

On the surface, this is starting to appear to be a concerted move by many PD's.

I have every reason to believe that it is. MCOPA has ways to reach out to all chiefs when they want to.

The licensing officer in Norwood told me the Chief didn’t think suspending LTC appointments would be in line with 2A !

Bill Brooks is a stand-up guy, not many like him are chiefs in MA.

A good starting point would be an AGs order that all expired licenses are to be treated as fully valid for all purposes including purchase. After all, she does have the power to make law by fiat.

 

[namedpipes]

Would any of the fuzz among us comment on whether they're being more selective in stopping infractors? Are you letting the fringe "get away with that 7mph over" and waiting for the a-hole that 20 over or didn't even slow down for the stop sign?

 

[CrackPot]

Certainly no easily recognized grace period, and no documentation a dealer will accept. Delivering the application to the PD and then using the "submitted" defense may, emphasis may, be effective. But, even without a renewal, there is a 90 day grace period so we may never get to the point of having the possibility of a test case - and even if we do, that does not mean we will get a test case with a baggage free, but for the license expiration, upstanding subject.

For a dealer it is simple, does the license show as valid in MIRCS. Log into MIRCS as a dealer. Start a transaction. Enter LTC and PIN. If it permits the transaction to proceed, you are good. If it says not valid, no bueno. No other method works for the sale of a firearm, shotgun or rifle. The dealer would be in violation of MGL 140 123 paragraph 13.

Now it is important to note that only firearms, shotguns and rifles are regulated by MA. They do not regulate the sale of frames, lowers, receivers, etc.

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

For a dealer it is simple, does the license show as valid in MIRCS. Log into MIRCS as a dealer. Start a transaction. Enter LTC and PIN. If it permits the transaction to proceed, you are good. If it says not valid, no bueno. No other method works for the sale of a firearm, shotgun or rifle. The dealer would be in violation of MGL 140 123 paragraph 13.

Now it is important to note that only firearms, shotguns and rifles are regulated by MA. They do not regulate the sale of frames, lowers, receivers, etc.

Thank you sir.

It is doubtful cops are going to target us because we may still be carrying or come to confiscate our guns after an expiration they caused in an effort to avoid us to begin with. However as @CrackPot 's post emphasizes the greatest damage to our rights by the cops failure to enter our application is our right to purchase a firearm.

Contact GOAL and politely ask them to acquire and propagated to the membership guidance on this matter.

 

[GOAL]

Folks, just to let you know that we are working on this situation. We are in direct contact with the Governor's office staff. This action is a bigger step than they perceive it.