MA resident with LTC searched in New Hampshire

NH, as pointed out is only a misdemeanor. He has two options: accept it, pay the fine that will likely be levied and move on (and think about GTFO of Mass cause when he renews this misdemeanor may show up and screw him). OR, he can pay a decent amount of money for an attorney to fight this on the basis of an illegal search.

At the very least, he needs to consult an attorney on whether there are any holes in the arrest such as illegal search, etc.

He needs to contact an NH attorney NOW.

Evan Nappen is good, but he was hawking SB244 because it would make him money.
Evan's Website: http://www.efnappen.com/

Penny Dean, I have heard mixed reviews on and she is more expensive than Nappen.
Penny's Website (Warning: Pink background, rather hard on the eyes):http://www.pennydean.com/

Seth Hipple is a good, albeit younger attorney. He is responsible for updating NH's annulment process (making it better, though an amendment was tacked on that hurt the bill that passed). Seth is likely the least expensive of the bunch and sometimes does things pro-bono. I've met Seth in person and he is a nice guy to talk to and is very approachable.

http://nhlegalservices.com/
 
Yes, it is a fair possibility that once his issuing authority learns of the incident that he can/will suspend/revoke his LTC.
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If he is convicted, and the crime (a) involves a firearm, and (b) carries a possible (not actual) jail or prison term, he will be disqualified for life from getting a MA LTC. MA may or may not automatically be notified but, at minimum, it will show up at renewal time.

Best bet is to pay a boatload of cash to get a good attorney to work out a no conviction deal. The chances of this happening for a person with no record in NH are much, much greater than the same happening for a NH resident who made the same mistake in MA.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
If he is convicted, and the crime (a) involves a firearm, and (b) carries a possible (not actual) jail or prison term, he will be disqualified for life from getting a MA LTC. MA may or may not automatically be notified but, at minimum, it will show up at renewal time.

Best bet is to pay a boatload of cash to get a good attorney to work out a no conviction deal. The chances of this happening for a person with no record in NH are much, much greater than the same happening for a NH resident who made the same mistake in MA.
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Does anyone know what the penalty is? I didn't see anything in that section about penalties other than it being a misdemeanor.
 
jtnf said:
Annndddd.... If he had switched from IWB to OWB and open-carried, he'd have been alright? Not sure about the in-car bit, but I'm pretty sure Mass residents can OC with no paper in NH.
Can somebody confirm?
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No, being in a motor vehicle with a loaded handgun NOT ALLOWED without P/R license in NH. Period end full stop.

-Mike
 
dgrafton said:
First day working at a new site in Attleboro, I nearly missed my road and would have been in RI.
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The difference is if you drove into RI and had no intention of stopping there, and drove back into MA you would be fine. RI law permits pass throughs w/o a license.

-Mike
 
Roxor said:
I get that, He was searched without consent and was not read miranda rights. However, they were going pretty damn fast (not happy to admit that)
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You sure about that? 99% of people never utter the words "Officer, I do not consent to this search." when a LEO announces they are going to search your vehicle. Someone saying "Uhh Okay" is probably enough voluntary consent. You don't need to be mirandized to have a vehicle search performed against you.

My guess is there is a lot more to this story than "just speeding".

-Mike
 
chopper_man said:
IANAL but it will take some take for whatever he is charged with to go thru the system. He should not immediately lose his MA LTC however.... this is MA and it could certainly affect him. Looks like 1st time charge of possession of a handgun in NH is a misdemeanor, so that's a good thing.
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It'll take some time for the whole legal process to transpire, but the arrest itself will hit the system extremely fast, as in it was probably already searchable in the system before the OP created this thread. Unless the individual's licensing authority has a reason to actually run checks on him, though, they probably won't become aware of it until renewal time. This is assuming NH and MA don't have some sort of reciprocal crim history sharing thing going on. Then again, all it would honestly take is one hard charging LEO from the arresting department in NH to call the LTC issuing department in MA and give them a "courtesy call" about the arrest.
 
drgrant said:
You sure about that? 99% of people never utter the words "Officer, I do not consent to this search." when a LEO announces they are going to search your vehicle. Someone saying "Uhh Okay" is probably enough voluntary consent. You don't need to be mirandized to have a vehicle search performed against you.

My guess is there is a lot more to this story than "just speeding".

-Mike
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I think it was a Terry Stop, Mike. The officer ordered everyone out of the car, and it would be standard procedure to pat everybody down "for safety". OP stated the person was concealed carrying (on his person I presume). It's not clear that the car was ever searched, although it might have been. No warrant or consent needed, per the Supremes.
 
drgrant said:
The difference is if you drove into RI and had no intention of stopping there, and drove back into MA you would be fine. RI law permits pass throughs w/o a license.

-Mike
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Yeah, but having the fear of MA bs always on one's mind makes such a situation stressful still. Filled out the NH nonres app today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
joshk1025 said:
Does anyone know what the penalty is? I didn't see anything in that section about penalties other than it being a misdemeanor.
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A Google search results in this information. I can't copy and paste it I'm on my phone. Up to $1000 fine and up to a year in jail. That's for the first offense. Second offense occurring within 7 years makes it a felony.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 
capewalk said:
A Google search results in this information. I can't copy and paste it I'm on my phone. Up to $1000 fine and up to a year in jail. That's for the first offense. Second offense occurring within 7 years makes it a felony.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Not quite. It depends on how the prosecutor charges. The statute states "misdemeanor" and does not clarify which misdemeanor.

NH has class A and Class B misdemeanors. Class B has no jail time.

MISDEMEANOR - a misdemeanor is a crime and a person who is convicted of a misdemeanor may be sentenced to jail depending upon the class of misdemeanor charged.

CLASS A - a person who is charged with a class A misdemeanor may be sentenced to jail upon conviction. In addition, a fine and probation may be imposed. For this reason, a person who is charged with a class A misdemeanor is entitled to apply for a court appointed lawyer.

CLASS B - a person who is charged with a class B misdemeanor may not be sentenced to jail upon conviction, although a fine and probation may be imposed. For this reason, a person who is charged with a class B misdemeanor may not apply for a court appointed lawyer.
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http://www.courts.state.nh.us/district/criminal/

There aren't many cases out there of unlicensed carry whereby there is public info on what they were convicted of. When they are charged, media always reports misdemeanor but doesn't say what type (in other words, the media is useless). Every now and then you come across an article whereby they talk about a conviction and list the exact charge. I have seen a couple whereby the defendant was charged and convicted of a class B misdemeanor.

http://www.newhampshirelakesandmoun...-James-Vittum-a-concealed-weapon-license.html

Most recently he was arrested on July 17 and charged with carrying a loaded handgun without a license, a Class B misdemeanor. On Sept. 18, he pled guilty to the charge.
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The guy above, James-Vittum is a douche based upon his criminal record and even then he was only charged with a class B misdemeanor for unlicensed carry.

So for a first time offense with no criminal record I'd be willing to bet $100 that the OP's friend is charged with a Class B misdemeanor which has no jail time.

Here is the applicable statute:

RSA 625:9 Classification of Crimes. – said:
(b) A class B misdemeanor is any crime so designated by statute within or outside this code and any crime defined outside of this code for which the maximum penalty does not include any term of imprisonment or any fine in excess of the maximum provided for a class B misdemeanor in RSA 651:2, IV(a).
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http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/lxii/625/625-9.htm

RSA 651:2 Sentences and Limitations. – said:
IV. A fine may be imposed in addition to any sentence of imprisonment, probation, or conditional discharge. The limitations on amounts of fines authorized in subparagraphs (a) and (b) shall not include the amount of any civil penalty, the imposition of which is authorized by statute or by a properly adopted local ordinance, code, or regulation. The amount of any fine imposed on:
(a) Any individual may not exceed $4,000 for a felony, $2,000 for a class A misdemeanor, $1,200 for a class B misdemeanor, and $1,000 for a violation.
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http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/lxii/651/651-2.htm
 
I thought the first offense for concealed with no P&R permit was just a violation , but maybe that is just if your a resident of NH.

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nheric said:
I thought the first offense for concealed with no P&R permit was just a violation , but maybe that is just if your a resident of NH.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk
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Nope. NH doesn't differentiate between a resident or non-resident violating the law.

159:4 Carrying Without License. – said:
No person shall carry a loaded pistol or revolver in any vehicle or concealed upon his person, except in his dwelling, house or place of business, without a valid license therefor as hereinafter provided. A loaded pistol or revolver shall include any pistol or revolver with a magazine, cylinder, chamber or clip in which there are loaded cartridges. Whoever violates the provisions of this section shall, for the first such offense, be guilty of a misdemeanor. For the second and for each subsequent violation of the provisions of this section, such person shall be guilty of a class B felony, provided such second or subsequent violation has occurred within 7 years of the previous conviction.
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http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-mrg.htm
 
Carry in a vehicle regulation is not because "in a car" is like being concealed

Lukes83 said:
No permit needed for open carry in NH. However, carrying in a vehicle constitutes concealment.
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joshk1025 said:
Because open carry in a car is still considered concealed.
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I used to think "carrying in a vehicle constitutes concealment" as well; reading the RSA that isn't actually the case, rather "in any vehicle" is it's own thing:
RSA 159:4 said:
Carrying Without License. – No person shall carry a loaded pistol or revolver in any vehicle or concealed upon his person, except in his dwelling, house or place of business, without a valid license therefor as hereinafter provided. ... misdemeanor.
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Ultrarunner said:
A gentle reminder that even in the "freest" "firearm friendly" states, there are asinine laws and infringements....A never ending battle I'm afraid...
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Asinine laws and infringements? Sure, we'd like constitutional carry here (and if not for the NRA, we'd have it), but I don't think it is asinine that New Hampshire requires a simple and cheap shall-issue license to carry a loaded handgun outside your home/business if it is in a vehicle or concealed.

It's not perfect, but on the grand scale of infringements, NH gun laws barely move the meter.
 
Kevin_NH said:
Asinine laws and infringements? Sure, we'd like constitutional carry here (and if not for the NRA, we'd have it), but I don't think it is asinine that New Hampshire requires a simple and cheap shall-issue license to carry a loaded handgun outside your home/business if it is in a vehicle or concealed.

It's not perfect, but on the grand scale of infringements, NH gun laws barely move the meter.
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This.

There's a whole lot of smart in that post. A whole lot.
 
Just to clarify, if he had unloaded the weapon and locked in in the trunk, (or locked container) he would have been o.k right ?
But not so in RI if he intended to stop there
 
The gun laws in this country are just ridiculous. Just because you cross a state line with a firearm doesn't mean you are there to shoot the place up. You might think personal responsibility ended at the state line. We need serious changes in our gun laws to protect us from this nonsense that goes on.
 
Seamsealer said:
The gun laws in this country are just ridiculous. Just because you cross a state line with a firearm doesn't mean you are there to shoot the place up. You might think personal responsibility ended at the state line. We need serious changes in our gun laws to protect us from this nonsense that goes on.
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Life would be much simpler if there were no federal firearm laws. Shall not be......

Now- state that do cherish the RKBA could seceede and write thier own gun laws
 
Seamsealer said:
The gun laws in this country are just ridiculous. Just because you cross a state line with a firearm doesn't mean you are there to shoot the place up. You might think personal responsibility ended at the state line. We need serious changes in our gun laws to protect us from this nonsense that goes on.
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This.
 
Roxor said:
ok so driver did get hit with reckless driving (not my buddy driving) officer made everyone get out of the car and searched them
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You know that old saying, stay away from stupid people, stupid places, and stupid things. Sometimes you have to cut loose "friends".
 
drgrant said:
No, being in a motor vehicle with a loaded handgun NOT ALLOWED without P/R license in NH. Period end full stop.

-Mike
Click to expand...

Hindsight being 20/20, the BEST thing one could have done in this circumstance (as a passenger) is quickly unload the gun, put the mag/spare round in your pocket, and the gun back in the holster or (if too obvious) on the floor.

"Yes, officer, it is my firearm, but it is unloaded since I know this is the law in New Hampshire without a permit."
 

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